sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
The H.S. helps with meaning-making -- not with the exegetical process.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Is Jesus God?
- Thread starter Orbit
- Start date
Muffled
Jesus in me
O happen to believe that Jesus is exceptionally good at exegesis.
OneThatGotAway
Servant of Yahweh God Almighty
Jesus will be upset if you refer to him as the Son of God instead of God; because he only refer to himself as only the Son of God. Jesus never said "my name is Yahweh" or "I am God" or "I am no longer the Son of God but God". That would give Satan a chance to say "Aha! Jesus has sinned by breaking the first commandment of the Ten Commandments!"
moorea944
Well-Known Member
That completely doesnt even make sense. Re-read what you just wrote. Jesus would be upset if you called him God!! Since Jesus is NOT God, and he gave glory to "God", and the scriptures tell us that God is the head (leader) of Christ and He is Jesus's father AND God, etc, etc. But doesnt the bible say that Jesus is the Son of God? Doesnt Jesus even call himself the "son of man" too? But NEVER God. For there is only ONE God. And that is the father of all. Even Jesus.
djhwoodwerks
Well-Known Member
Hello everyone! I just joined the forum. I don't think I'll take the time to read all 52 pages of comments, lol, so if I say anything that has been said I apologize!
OneThatGotAway
Servant of Yahweh God Almighty
You are correct; that is what I meant to say: Jesus will NOT be upset if you refer to him as only the "Son of God" instead of The God, Almighty.
Mountain_Climber
Active Member
Jesus quite plainly said he was not God:
John 5:19 "... The Son can do nothing of himself ..."
John 5:30 "I can of mine own self do nothing ..."
John 8:28 " ... I do nothing of myself ..."
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
How was He doing anything, then, lol. I think you have mistaken the incarnation or manifestation for an identity switch. Jesu, says, He cannot do anything of Himself, yet He is also doing those things. Who is the identity?
lostwanderingsoul
Well-Known Member
a lot a people use the name "God" incorrectly. God is more like a family name like "Jones". that God "family" consists of the Father and the Son. both are "God" just like everyone in the "Jones" family is jones. the are individual beings but are related. many people use "God to refer to the Father. the Father is God and Jesus is God but they a different individuals.
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Jesu said that he was in the father, and the father in Him. Also, that He and the father are one. It is not a 'directional' thing, where He is sort of a puppet for non- human entity. Anything aside from a puppet for an entity, means that His identity, is Gods. The metaphor, is the 'separation', ie son and father.
A demi-god, is polytheistic, a puppet or a man simply being 'used' by a deity,, is not part of a Godhead, and possibly a charlatan; In that instance, it would be a different religion. There is only one option left, and that is that, Jesu is a manifestation of God.
Last edited:
moorea944
Well-Known Member
How true. Plus, the bible even says it! David even knew that the messiah would come from him. People knew that the "coming Messiah" would be the son of God and the son of David.
Look at 1 Cor 11 Jesus is the head of man. Man is the head of woman. God is the head of Christ. There goes your trinity right there!!!
Plus, how many times does scripture tell us that God is "working through" His son.... All of Jesus's miracles were not his, but of his Father.
Mountain_Climber
Active Member
It seems rather obvious to me from a simple statement that Luke made that many of the people of that day knew it was time for the Messiah's arrival.
Check it out: Luke 3:15 "And as the people were in expectation, and all men mused in their hearts of John, whether he were the Christ, or not.."
Add that with the magi who also had pinpointed the earlier time for his birth and were led by the star first to a wicked king who would desire to put him to death?
Something very strange about that star wouldn't you say?
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Well, yes, of course, that is why we are monotheists. However, generally, when I say 'Jesus', I'm referring to the manifestation aspect, in other words, I'm talking about God, not a man. What is interesting, is that all of this is not clear, in Xianity. In fact, those who would necessarily have more than one Deity, might consider themselves monotheist, ie they know that in theory they are supposed to be monotheists.
People seem to be being taught incorrectly, this is why I would not even bring up a metaphorical idea of a trinity, too much confusing baggage.
Last edited:
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
How many deities do you have? If you just worship God, the father, then that is the only manifestation occurring.
moorea944
Well-Known Member
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
@moorea944
Hi. Are you a Karaite? I may have asked you your religious adherence already, just curious.
I'm merely relaying what my studies have shown. I don't think that the early Xians were using that much metaphor when they referred to Jesu as 'God', so forth. I believe that the traditional belief is, Jesu is a manifestation, or an incarnation, of YHWH. There is no trinity idea necessary here, or even explicitly stated in the text. /afaik/.
ps the trinity doctrine in a liberal understanding is merely descriptive, I do not think that there is any need for a 'demi-god' concept here.
Hi. Are you a Karaite? I may have asked you your religious adherence already, just curious.
I'm merely relaying what my studies have shown. I don't think that the early Xians were using that much metaphor when they referred to Jesu as 'God', so forth. I believe that the traditional belief is, Jesu is a manifestation, or an incarnation, of YHWH. There is no trinity idea necessary here, or even explicitly stated in the text. /afaik/.
ps the trinity doctrine in a liberal understanding is merely descriptive, I do not think that there is any need for a 'demi-god' concept here.
moorea944
Well-Known Member
Thank you for your answer. I think manifestation and incarnation is totally differnent from each other. I would never use incarnation, only because of it's meaning and it's not used in scripture. But manifestation is. Wonderful word. Jesus is the manifestation of God. I totally agree with that. God manifest in the flesh. But not God or very God as some people seem to say. I believe that there is only one God. We also know that God is above Jesus, not co-equal with the Father. Jesus manifest his Father's charater perfectly. He did his Father's will instead of his own. We also know that God worked "through' His son. God manifestation right there. Beautiful.
Mountain_Climber
Active Member
Yes, your point seems to be proven by Matthew 11:27 "All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him."
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
The idea of ''co-equal'', to me, is moot, though. Since Jesu is a manifestation of the father, there is only One Deity anyway. The ''man form'' of Jesus, is man, if we take this traditionally, but His Spirit is the fathers. So, Jesu in Spirit, is really the father. I don't believe in the idea of two different entities in the Godhead, at all.
I think we are tomato-tomahto, on this, but the wording can get confusing, unless we explain ourselves.
/disciple