You said Jesus claims to be messiah and god. What I say is that Jesus claims to be messiah. Of course. But he never anywhere claims to be messiah AND GOD. john 4:25 and 26 only claims the messiah. Only. No god there. And its absurd to have christ within brackets when it has already said messiah, the same thing, if its a software, its misleading.
Messiah and god,
Those were your words. But I understand perfectly that's your theology and I don't intend to say question your theology. But I do question the scriptural or/and historical claims Jesus made.when you quote the upper room incident, it's not Jesus who says I am god. Hope you understand what I meant. it was Thomas who said kyrio mou kai ho theos mou.
yes he does say my god. But it was the doubting Thomas, your words were "Jesus claims to be messiah and God". He never did.A
Also, once I told my boss that we have achieved a record sales figure for 3 radio channels I was working for. He asked me how much. I showed him the revenue sheet to surprise him. He was surprised, and he exclaimed "Jesus Christ". And no, he wasn't calling me Jesus Christ, it was only his expression. Peace brother.
Ok. Firedragon, We settled with the Messiah. Now, I would like to comment regarding your answer about John 20:28. Let us study the whole narration and the context.
John 20:19-29
17. Jesus said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren, and say to them, `I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'"
18.
Mary Magdalene came, announcing to the disciples, "I have seen the Lord," and that He had said these things to her.
Jesus among His Disciples
19. When therefore it was evening, on that day, the first day of the week, and when the doors were shut where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews,
Jesus came and stood in their midst, and said to them, "Peace be with you."
20. And when He had said this, He showed them both His hands and His side. The disciples therefore rejoiced when they saw the Lord.
21. Jesus therefore said to them again, "Peace be with you; as the Father has sent Me, I also send you."
22. And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit.
23. "If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained."
24. But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.
25.
The other disciples therefore were saying to him, "We have seen the Lord!" But he said to them,
"Unless I shall see in His hands the imprint of the nails, and put my finger into the place of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe."
26. And after eight days again His disciples were inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors having been shut, and stood in their midst, and said, "Peace be with you."
27. Then He said to Thomas, "Reach here your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand, and put it into My side; and be not unbelieving, but believing."
28. Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"
29. Jesus said to him, "Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed."
In v.18, Mary Magdalene announce to the disciples that she has seen the Lord Jesus. (Thomas was not included and it does not specify who are those disciples that she was told aside form v.1 & v.2 Simon Peter & Peter)
In v.19, Jesus came and appeared with the disciples (Thomas was not included)
In v.25, Those disciples who have seen Jesus told Thomas. Truly he doubted about the information that Jesus appeared to them. Thomas claimed that he must see Jesus first before believing.
Note: Thomas has in mind (in advance) that Jesus came and appeared to other disciples without him but to assure the validity of information, he must see Jesus first.
In v.26,
take note of the span of days, this is after eight days that Thomas knew about Jesus appearance with the other disciples. Look at the first word of Jesus, He say "Peace be with you," then He continues saying "Reach here your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand, and put it into My side; and be not unbelieving, but believing."
In v.28, Thomas confessed "My Lord and my God!"
Now, let us analyze the situation about the expression. This is what most of the non-trinitarians believers used to misinterpret it as the expression. Let me ask you this questions:
1. Why would Thomas will uttered such a phrase "My God" to Jesus when they are not allowed to call someone "God" during their time?
2. Why Jesus does not corrected nor rebuke Thomas if He was not God?
3. Do you think that a person's reaction to commit such an expression is valid when Thomas knew the information about Jesus appearance beforehand (after eight
days passed)?
4. Would somebody will react such expression upon the following sequence of scenario?
- eight days passed knew that Jesus appearance
- Jesus appeared first and uttered
"Reach here your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand, and put it into My side; and be not unbelieving, but
believing."
5. Why Thomas was not stoned by the other disciples when He uttered "My Lord and My God"?
(When Jesus claimed to be God, the Jews stoned Him) Why not for
Thomas?
In relation to your example with your boss is far from the context with the scenario of Jesus and Thomas and the setting itself. That is a bad hermeneutics. In the first place, Jesus was already seen by Thomas; uttered a statement before Thomas confessed "My Lord and My God."
Thanks