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Is Jesus the Jewish messiah?

Caladan

Agnostic Pantheist
I don't think so. Jesus is the christian messiah, and to a lesser extent the muslim messiah.
That really is a practical answer. in the Abrahamic religions to Christians Jesus is the messiah, in Muslim tradition he is also called Masih or Messiah, but both these traditions accepted him as a second hand revelation, while according to gospel narrative and tradition, most Jews of his time kept living their daily practices as always and stuck to their religion as they always have. if the gospels give historical insight, then it should be a very dramatic and important fact, that most Jews kept on practicing their original tradition without wanting to make modifications. only a minority of Jews accepted Jesus as their messiah, and this tradition was inherited to Christianity and later Islam.
 

Levite

Higher and Higher
Jesus is not the Jewish messiah. Perhaps he can be called a messiah by Christians, or Muslims, but the only support for Jesus' messiahdom is found in the New Testament. And since Jews do not accept the validity of the New Testament as sacred text, it is valueless for us.

Many are fairly familiar with the list composed by Rambam (Rabbi Moses Maimonides) of deeds that the messiah is to accomplish, and how one is to know him. On that list are things like bringing the Jewish people back to a more traditional observance of the commandments (I think we can all agree that Jesus did not do this, since even Christians don't claim that he did); rallying the entire Jewish people together, to set aside their differences and confront their enemies (definitely not Jesus's work); helping the Jewish people to throw off the yoke of foreign overlordship and return the Land of Israel to rulership by a Davidic monarchy (nope-- and for that matter, it also says he is to be descended directly from David. But the Christians claim that Jesus had no human father: he was supposedly sired directly by God. So he cannot be a direct descendant of David); and rebuilding the Temple (still standing when Jesus lived, and it fell shortly after his death). Rambam also says that the messiah will bring about an era of blessing and peace between all people (wars have only gotten worse since Jesus' time), and most importantly, he tells us that we will know the messiah because, having done all these things, and having been an exemplar of Jewish behavior, and inspiring other Jews to be more observant, all the Jewish people will unanimously acclaim him as the messiah, the promised king, and together the greatest rabbis of the age will anoint him ruler, and he will rule over the Jewish people from Jerusalem.

Jesus did not inspire Jews to more observance. He was not unanimously acclaimed by the Jewish people as messiah and promised king. He was not anointed by the greatest rabbis of the age. He never ruled over the Jewish people, from Jerusalem or anywhere else.

Rather, Jesus preached sectarianism at best, if not heresy outright. His followers sought to lead Jews away from observance of the commandments and faithfulness to the Covenant, and they called him a god, which we are commanded is an offense to God.

That seems like a big No. No question.
 

Midnight Pete

Well-Known Member
The Romans killed him, because, as they were smart enough to build an empire they knew that the Jews were longing for a messiah so they killed him quick to avoid an uprising. That he wasn't a warrior-king didn't matter at all to the Romans.

Would the Romans have crucified Jesus had it not been for the Jews howling for his blood?
 

mohammed_beiruti

Active Member
I think the "Messiah" is the last prophet for Jews, I have no idea about any prophet came after "Jesus" for bani israel.

after they had disbelieved Jesus, he started to talk about the new covenant, and the new kingdom of God

Mat 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
Jesus was the messiah they were waiting for, but when he actually arrived they killed him. They wanted a warrior-king, like David, to deliver them militarily from their Roman masters. But that didn't happen. They had their messiah and didn't even know it.

why do you suppose they wanted a warrior king...?
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
had jesus called himself the messiah he would have been killed off by the romans much earlier...
he never publicly called himself the messiah...
he pussyfooted his way around it, "who do you say i am"

if anything, the authors of the new testament had a dilemma on their hands...
jesus was supposed to perform certain deeds...but he didn't...and was killed. so they had to explain why and validate jesus to the jews right after the temple was destroyed which caused a lot of strife within the jewish community. these gospels were written to explain why the temple was destroyed... and thusly the jesus movement began
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
It's not innaccurate.

think about it. the jews were expecting a messiah to meet certain criteria
jesus did not meet up to those standards...period.

as i asked you before, why do you think the jews were expecting a warrior king...? was this a criteria that was pulled out of thin air?
 

tigrers99

Member
It has nothing to do with what they wanted, but with what the prophecies predicted. The prophecies paint a certain Messianic image, and Jesus wasn't anywhere close to that. He was some guy who claimed to do things that weren't predicted, over a situation that no one was ever told about (hell as punishment for sin), and then died to rectify a situation that no one was told about see by making a change that no one could actually notice in a what that no one was told would ever work (human sacrifice for sin).

But you keep believing what you want. Those dumb Jews just didn't notice who he was and they messed up and killed him. Yep. The people God meant to send him to, and they couldn't even tell. [/sarcasm]

You'd think the fact that it wasn't obvious to any Jews that Jesus was the Messiah would be a clear indication that he wasn't. But I guess that makes too much sense.


Oh, they knew He was the Messiah. It was just that He was not the top-of-the-world kind of Saviour that they desired. He was an embarrassment to the Jewish religious leadership.


Isaiah 53 (New International Version, ©2010)


Isaiah 53


1 Who has believed our message
and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?
2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
3 He was despised and rejected by mankind,
a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
Like one from whom people hide their faces
he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.
4 Surely he took up our pain
and bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
stricken by him, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
and by his wounds we are healed.
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to our own way;
and the LORD has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.
8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away.
Yet who of his generation protested?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was punished.
9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth. 10 Yet it was the LORD’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the LORD makes his life an offering for sin,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand.
11 After he has suffered,
he will see the light of life and be satisfied;
by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many,
and he will bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,
and he will divide the spoils with the strong,
because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.
 

TheKnight

Guardian of Life
Oh, they knew He was the Messiah. It was just that He was not the top-of-the-world kind of Saviour that they desired. He was an embarrassment to the Jewish religious leadership.

It is bad taste to quote an entire chapter on the Bible without at least explaining why you quoted it. But I'm OK with that because I'm about 100% certain of what you probably think that chapter means. And doesn't prove anything. In fact, it doesn't even have anything to do with this discussion really.

What makes the Jewish messiah the messiah consists of more than the vague fulfillment of a passage that isn't a prophecy.
 

Dirty Penguin

Master Of Ceremony
Not to mention....the book of Isaiah has absolutely NOTHING to do with Yeshua...at all and I'm not sure why Christians keep trying to use it for him......
 

Gloone

Well-Known Member
think about it. the jews were expecting a messiah to meet certain criteria
jesus did not meet up to those standards...period.

as i asked you before, why do you think the jews were expecting a warrior king...? was this a criteria that was pulled out of thin air?
Because they didn't want to follow their commandments and live by gods law so god sent them Jesus someone to forgive them all of their sins for wanting to cause chaos and destruction on the earth. They basically turned their backs on the one god that came forth to them by choosing not to follow it.
 
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