Is Jesus the Jewish messiah?

[Gloone]

You charged that there was no criteria and yet I just gave you a link that describes whom the messiah should be. It's from the Jews using the criteria found in the OT. Yeshua didn't meet that criteria but to answer your question just check your reply to Levite.

Thanks for the link. That helped out a lot. It doesn't add up when it is broken down chronologically, so yea, I can see why Jewish people wouldn't consider him a Messiah.

 

[Gloone]

Double posted

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Thanks for the link. That helped out a lot. It doesn't add up when it is broken down chronologically, so yea, I can see why Jewish people wouldn't consider him a Messiah.

Right....a decedent of David would be someone in the bloodline. It matters not how many generations later. Jews know who's who when it comes to bloodline. Just like the Jewish priesthood. One has to be of a particular bloodline in order to be a priest. The Jews have a structure when it comes to that. So it's not surprising that they have specific guidelines on how they should know their Messiah. This is why Yeshua can not be considered. Furthermore, the understanding is that Yeshua would be from the bloodline of (*seed* of) David and your very own NT scripture proves Yeshua had no earthly father. One could rest on just that fact right there and dismiss Yeshua's claim to messiahship but not being a warrior king as well as a few others seal the deal.

 

[waitasec]

Right....a decedent of David would be someone in the bloodline. It matters not how many generations later. Jews know who's who when it comes to bloodline. Just like the Jewish priesthood. One has to be of a particular bloodline in order to be a priest. The Jews have a structure when it comes to that. So it's not surprising that they have specific guidelines on how they should know their Messiah. This is why Yeshua can not be considered. Furthermore, the understanding is that Yeshua would be from the bloodline of (*seed* of) David and your very own NT scripture proves Yeshua had no earthly father. One could rest on just that fact right there and dismiss Yeshua's claim to messiahship but not being a warrior king as well as a few others seal the deal.

curious, does anyone claim to be a descendant of david today...

 

[Gloone]

Right....a decedent of David would be someone in the bloodline. It matters not how many generations later. Jews know who's who when it comes to bloodline. Just like the Jewish priesthood. One has to be of a particular bloodline in order to be a priest. The Jews have a structure when it comes to that. So it's not surprising that they have specific guidelines on how they should know their Messiah. This is why Yeshua can not be considered. Furthermore, the understanding is that Yeshua would be from the bloodline of (*seed* of) David and your very own NT scripture proves Yeshua had no earthly father. One could rest on just that fact right there and dismiss Yeshua's claim to messiahship but not being a warrior king as well as a few others seal the deal.

The new Testament also says; Revelations 23:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."
I think it becomes kind of redundant to pick out all of the things one might disagree or find fault with. :banghead3 For example how can someone believe or follow a prophecy and not believe in angels. What is the difference?

 

[Dirty Penguin]

curious, does anyone claim to be a descendant of david today...

Not sure. I suspect that if one did it could be verified. The OT seemed to go through great lengths establishing genealogy. If Jews require one to be of a particular bloodline to become priest then something as important as their promised Messiah, his lineage, could be scrutinized equally.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

The new Testament also says; Revelations 23:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."

What was it that made his claim to the lineage of David valid?

I think it becomes kind of redundant to pick out all of the things one might disagree or find fault with. :banghead3 For example how can someone believe or follow a prophecy and not believe in angels. What is the difference?

But we're talking about the criteria for Messiah so I think it's fair to know how Christians derive at the notion he is and how Jews derive at the notion he isn't. Before the Yeshua could be called (Messiah) he'd first have to be of the bloodline (seed) of David. Since he had no earthly biological father, according to Christians, how do we move forward from here?

 

[Gloone]

What was it that made his claim to the lineage of David valid?

Is there any real way to track it? Just the simple fact the Jesus understood commandments a lot better than most people would seem like enough.

But we're talking about the criteria for Messiah so I think it's fair to know how Christians derive at the notion he is and how Jews derive at the notion he isn't. Before the Yeshua could be called (Messiah) he'd first have to be of the bloodline (seed) of David. Since he had no earthly biological father, according to Christians, how do we move forward from here?

Learn how to read / understand prophecy and not squabble around it would be my guess.

 

[waitasec]

Not sure. I suspect that if one did it could be verified. The OT seemed to go through great lengths establishing genealogy. If Jews require one to be of a particular bloodline to become priest then something as important as their promised Messiah, his lineage, could be scrutinized equally.

i smell another dan brown novel

 

[dogsgod]

curious, does anyone claim to be a descendant of david today...

I am, but I don't make a big deal of it.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

i smell another dan brown novel

Oh my...I hope not....

I normally don't care about subjects such as these as they mean nothing to me in how I live my life but I find them interesting because I always wanted to know how Christians derive at Yeshua being the Messiah and citing OT scripture as their proof text and how Jews cite a myriad of reasons as to why he isn't the Messiah. After a while it ends in a circular debate.

 

[Gloone]

Oh my...I hope not....

I normally don't care about subjects such as these as they mean nothing to me in how I live my life but I find them interesting because I always wanted to know how Christians derive at Yeshua being the Messiah and citing OT scripture as their proof text and how Jews cite a myriad of reasons as to why he isn't the Messiah. After a while it ends in a circular debate.

Well seeing how Abraham was Egyptian and the Jewish people fled that land. I don't see how anyone could take claim to being his descendant unless they wanted to use it as an excuse for power.

 

[waitasec]

Well seeing how Abraham was Egyptian and the Jewish people fled that land. I don't see how anyone could take claim to being his descendant unless they wanted to use it as an excuse for power.

abraham was egyptian?
what's your source...
that sounds interesting.

 

[Gloone]

abraham was egyptian?
what's your source...
that sounds interesting.

Edfu - The Ralph Ellis Website

 

[outhouse]

ralphy boy has a theory all his own and is not backed by historians as a whole

 

[Dirty Penguin]

ralphy boy has a theory all his own and is not backed by historians as a whole

Not only that but it seems that his hypotheses aren't really corroborated by evidence....but hey, don't let a pesky little thing like evidence stand in the way of a good old fashion conspiracy theory....

Have you found any other info on this guy? I've been looking and nothing..!!

 

[outhouse]

not allot

Red Ice Creations Radio - Ralph Ellis - Egypt, The Hyksos, Pharaohs and the Bible

just another guy misquoting script with his own little theory

 

[Gloone]

Come on give Ralph some credit!

 

[outhouse]

Come on give Ralph some credit!

ok he has one heck of a imgination

 

[Gloone]

Why is Jesus so different from the OT messiah? Why would God send the Jews a messiah that becomes an inspiration for discrimination and violence against them?

Jesus was never an inspiration for discrimination that is just the way people treated him during his lifetime including Jewish people.