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Is MAGA-ism a Religion?

ratiocinator

Lightly seared on the reality grill.
I would just like to say that I think it’s wrong to equate Christians with MAGA’s. Not all conservatives are Christians.
Good point. Though it's also true that not all Christians are conservatives. The link is nowhere near as strong in the UK, in fact it's probably slightly the other way round. Conservative governments often get criticism from church leaders and get told to "stay out of politics". Some of my own close family are Christians, and at least one has told me that, like me, they've never voted Conservative (the UK political party) in her life.
 

ratiocinator

Lightly seared on the reality grill.
I feel like I’m up against an immovable opinion since it has been used as a standard anti-God sentiment… but here goes. God is not for slavery or genocide any more than we are “for the atomic bomb to kill masses of people ” - but found it necessary to use it.
I thought God was supposed to be omnipotent? Even in human terms, genocide is never acceptable. Yet (for example) in the case of the Amalekites, an omnipotent God somehow found it 'necessary' to send in humans to "totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys" (1 Samuel 15:3 NIV)? Seriously?
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
I thought God was supposed to be omnipotent?

The problem that we have with us making a statement without understanding is that we only give only one alternative when there can be other answers.

For an example, is God omnipotent enough to give free will to man and to give the earth to humankind?

Even in human terms, genocide is never acceptable.

Again, we are talking about human terms.

This opens a variety of questions such as, "is physical genocide really genocide if there is a hereafter where they will live forever?” Or, “is infanticide acceptable if it is a burden to the mother or if she was raped?” Or, “Is euthanasia acceptable in certain cases or if the person wills it?"

Have you ever investigated as to what were the conditions in the very few “exceptions” that God, in the TaNaKh wanted it?

Yet (for example) in the case of the Amalekites, an omnipotent God somehow found it 'necessary' to send in humans to "totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys" (1 Samuel 15:3 NIV)? Seriously?

This is a great example… now, have you studied the lifestyle of the Amalekites to find out if there was a possible reason?
 

ratiocinator

Lightly seared on the reality grill.
This opens a variety of questions such as, "is physical genocide really genocide if there is a hereafter....
What sort of 'hereafter'? Hell? And that's before we get to the terror and painful deaths themselves, even of the children.

....have you studied the lifestyle of the Amalekites to find out if there was a possible reason?
What possible relevance could that have to indulge in total genocide and kill infants and even the donkeys, what did they do FFS?

Anyway, we are off-topic here.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Yes. It is.
As wokeism is a religion.
If I have understood correctly, wokeism consists in believing that all people are LGBT somehow (for example a cis man and a cis woman have sex, but want to be included in the LGBT thing because they identify as queer, untranslatable term).
To me it's all about faith in dogmas.
 

ratiocinator

Lightly seared on the reality grill.
As wokeism is a religion.
If I have understood correctly, wokeism consists in believing that all people are LGBT somehow (for example a cis man and a cis woman have sex, but want to be included in the LGBT thing because they identify as queer, untranslatable term).
To me it's all about faith in dogmas.
Can't say I've heard that before. In fact, the meaning of 'woke' seems to have changed a lot and is now largely used pejoratively by conservatives. If you look in a dictionary, you'll find something like "Someone who is woke is very aware of social and political unfairness." (Collins) or "aware of and actively attentive to important societal facts and issues (especially issues of racial and social justice)" (Merriam-Webster).

More comprehensively:


On your 'LGBT thing', well I'm cis, but I wouldn't include myself as LGBT, but I'm probably more 'woke' than not (difficult to say, as the term is used so differently) - apparently cycling has become 'woke' to some people (see link above)!


So I can't see it as a religion, as people use it so differently.
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
Perhaps it's just me, but what I know about what makes a religion (and what I know seems unable to unmake it) suggests that the devotion to Donald Trump (not to a party, not to a platform, not to an ideology) constitutes a religion. As I think all personality cults do.

Some observations:
All Christians routinely ignore some horrifying stories from the Bible, and yet accept them as part of their devotions.​
All MAGAs routinely ignore many horrifying stories about Trump, yet accept him as the focus of their devotions.​
The vast majority of senior Trump supporters were implacably opposed to him at first, ran against him claiming he was so wrong for the party -- and then wound up supporting him, often completely contradicting their previous positions in the process.​
The vast majority of Christ's supporters were originally the Romans and other polytheists of the ancient world. Those who Jesus arose from (Jews) reject him as "divine" even today.​
MAGA means Make America Great Again. Religion, according to Atheists is about imaginary things. The Republican idea of America being great again is about trying to restore an early time of American greatness and prosperity, that was part of tangible reality; Golden Generation. Conservative conserve the past since the past was real and there by fate to learn from.

It appears to me the DNC is the one all tripped out in alternate reality. They seeks to do what has not been done, and may not even be possible, except in propaganda; the sermon of tyrants. The Inflation Reduction Act, caused inflation to sustain, which shows how out of touch with reality this religion was. In their alternate reality tampering with the free market and deficit spending will lead to prosperity.

President Biden was mentally challenged way before the debate; COVID Bunker, yet their base was so tripped out in the alternate propaganda reality of their religion, they could not see. In that reality, old age makes you sharper. Democrats tend to project, accusing others of what they are. Your inner self is trying to wake you up, but you want to sleep in.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Perhaps it's just me, but what I know about what makes a religion (and what I know seems unable to unmake it) suggests that the devotion to Donald Trump (not to a party, not to a platform, not to an ideology) constitutes a religion. As I think all personality cults do.

Some observations:
All Christians routinely ignore some horrifying stories from the Bible, and yet accept them as part of their devotions.​
All MAGAs routinely ignore many horrifying stories about Trump, yet accept him as the focus of their devotions.​
The vast majority of senior Trump supporters were implacably opposed to him at first, ran against him claiming he was so wrong for the party -- and then wound up supporting him, often completely contradicting their previous positions in the process.​
The vast majority of Christ's supporters were originally the Romans and other polytheists of the ancient world. Those who Jesus arose from (Jews) reject him as "divine" even today.​

Well, after Trump dodged a bullet, a lot of the religious folks are believing it to be divine intervention.
Feels like Trump is sure riding that idea.
 

ratiocinator

Lightly seared on the reality grill.
It appears to me the DNC is the one all tripped out in alternate reality.
irony.gif

Trump seem unable to say much at all without telling lies. He's either cynically trying to manipulate people, a fantasist, or too stupid to know what he's doing. That's before we get to the wingnut conspiracy theories that his followers seem to love so much (QAnon, Marjorie Taylor Greene's space lasers, etc,).

The Inflation Reduction Act, caused inflation to sustain, which shows how out of touch with reality this religion was. In their alternate reality tampering with the free market and deficit spending will lead to prosperity.
Well, according to The Economist, it seems to be doing quite well for what it was intended for:

What the Inflation Reduction Act has achieved in its first year (web archive).
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
After watching a few clips of Cruz, Rubio and some other guy speechifying, I get the whole Trump thing a bit more. I mean, those guys are tedious. They stand there trundling out the same tired lines and their attitude is obvious, they just want to say enough of what they think are the right things to get enough votes so they don’t have to speak to the voters, who they clearly despise, again for a few more years. Now, anyone who has bothered to check out what Trump has said and done over the years knows he doesn’t give a crap about abortion, god or any of the other stuff his followers think is important, but he knows how to make it sound like he does. He absolutely loves standing up there and banging on about all the people he hates, because they reveal him for the shallow, venal wretch he really is, and that’s fine, because his followers hate those people too. It’s a total love fest. They all love getting together and having a massive rant about everything they love (hot dogs, America, flags, tits etc) and everything they hate (people who think). I mean, it’s practically orgasmic. He gives full vent to what people are thinking and feeling in their innermost selves but don’t know how to express. It’s easy to see how addictive that can be. He uses good old American Anglo-Saxon words where those other dry sticks bore everyone with their fancy Latin words. Amazing how you can make people believe you just through choice of words and lots of emotion. That all Trump is interested in is being adored, that he lies continually- these things are totally irrelevant.
All I can say is that against my better judgment, but after three years of waiting for a tax return, I contacted Cruz's office and had my tax return in my bank in less than two weeks.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
I feel like I’m up against an immovable opinion since it has been used as a standard anti-God sentiment… but here goes. God is not for slavery or genocide any more than we are “for the atomic bomb to kill masses of people ” - but found it necessary to use it.
Not actually the topic of the thread

As you believe in a more literal version of the Bible slavery nd genocide is problematic. Use is endorsement.

My view is much of the Bible reflects the culture of the time, and not God's orders or laws. This fundamentalist view of the ancient tribal scripture contributes to justification of view fundamentalist Christians in their actions today endorsing MAGA and QAnon.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
All I can say is that against my better judgment, but after three years of waiting for a tax return, I contacted Cruz's office and had my tax return in my bank in less than two weeks.
You pay taxes uber present tax system was passed under Trump, which favors the wealthy and the corporations.

There is another issue that is problematic is the rejection of the results of the last election nased on the conspiracy theories of QAnon which is dominatly believed in the Republican Party.. The reults of the election was verified by a;; the State and Federal judges in the country. The advocacy of the rejection of the election represents a dangerous claim of the desire to reject our Democratic process for a religious dominion and a Christian Theonomy in the USA.

Can you justify the rejection of the results of the last election?
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
Well, after Trump dodged a bullet, a lot of the religious folks are believing it to be divine intervention.
Feels like Trump is sure riding that idea.
It is, however, an idea that any thinking person would find repugnant -- that a deity would spare Trump's life but permit a loving father and regular church-goer to be shot dead while protecting his family. What kind of person could tolerate that sort of "god?"
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
That's pretty much the way America is now.

I can testify at least from my lifetime is that it was better back in the day. Not perfect mind you , but a lot better.
The white world of segregation, Ozzie and Harriot. Howdy Doddy, and the Lone Ranger does not justify illusions of nostalgia
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Maybe that's part of your problem. Simply because you cannot tell by looking at a person and just assume nonchalantly people are that way.
It is not "just assume nonchalantly people are that way." IT is the affiliation of the radical organizations and beliefs that identify them.

How can you justify the rejection of the election results of the last election by the by far majority of the Republicans, and QAnon?
 

Kathryn

It was on fire when I laid down on it.
You pay taxes uber present tax system was passed under Trump, which favors the wealthy and the corporations.

There is another issue that is problematic is the rejection of the results of the last election nased on the conspiracy theories of QAnon which is dominatly believed in the Republican Party.. The reults of the election was verified by a;; the State and Federal judges in the country. The advocacy of the rejection of the election represents a dangerous claim of the desire to reject our Democratic process for a religious dominion and a Christian Theonomy in the USA.

Can you justify the rejection of the results of the last election?
The only time I ever hear about QAnon is on this site, by the way, from predominately left wing sources.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
The only time I ever hear about QAnon is on this site, by the way, from left wing sources.
Of course, conservatives do not want to talk about QAnon openly. It is very embarrassing.

For beginners . . .


On Tuesday, using his Truth Social platform, the Republican former president reposted an image of himself wearing a Q lapel pin overlaid with the words “The Storm is Coming.” In QAnon lore, the “storm” refers to Trump’s final victory, when supposedly he will regain power and his opponents will be tried, and potentially executed, on live television.

As Trump contemplates another run for the presidency and has become increasingly assertive in the Republican primary process during the midterm elections, his actions show that far from distancing himself from the political fringe, he is welcoming it.

He’s published dozens of recent Q-related posts, in contrast to 2020, when he claimed that while he didn’t know much about QAnon, he couldn’t disprove its conspiracy theory.

You did not answer the question. Can you justify the rejection of the results of the last election?

More to follow . . .
 
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