Is one religion better than the other.. and if so....

[URAVIP2ME]

[QUOTE="Segev Moran, post: 4917469, member: 59931"
So dictatorship is Good?
[/QUOTE]

If a huge corporation was being run by a corrupted leader and forced the corporation into bankruptcy how would people view him ?
On the other hand, if a benevolent benefactor came along and paid the debt and saved everyone's jobs how would people view him ?
God is like the Benevolent Benefactor who had our sin debt paid so that we can gain everlasting life as originally offered to Adam before his downfall.

 

[Segev Moran]

Before humans arrived, Satan brought his (Not God's) influence to Eden

This entire claim talks about the time after creation.. upon which god discovers that he did a good thing...
Satan was yet existing...

 

[Segev Moran]

If a huge corporation was being run by a corrupted leader and forced the corporation into bankruptcy how would people view him ?

And what if he didn't? That would make it Good?

On the other hand, if a benevolent benefactor came along and paid the debt and saved everyone's jobs how would people view him ?

You do realize that by saying dictator.. we actually referring to God.. yeah?
So God destroyed the company and Jesus came to save it?
[/QUOTE]
God is like the Benevolent Benefactor who had our sin debt paid so that we can gain everlasting life as originally offered to Adam before his downfall.[/QUOTE]
Why would we need to pay God a Debt???

 

[Segev Moran]

Jesus recorded words at Matthew 13:34 tells us that without a parable ( illustration ) that he would Not speak to the crowds.
The people who had questions about his illustrations would hang around for the answers.

Someone might even call it a "Marketing" tactics

As far as the Revelation, which Jesus gave to the apostle John, it is recorded that Revelation is written in signs, so those 16 visions were recorded in very-vivid word pictures - Revelation 1:1. By comparing Revelation with other Bible books those 'signs' can be discerned today.
- Daniel 12:4; Daniel 12:9

So the people who wrote the Bible(V2)... Weren't the ones that knew what Jesus was teaching? and if they did know, why wouldn't write it in the book? why not say that Jesus said this rather meant that?

 

[Kelloggs]

Hi All,

I Was wondering what you think about the various religions and religion streams in the world.

Do you think that God is really in favor of one religion? If so, Which one and why?
Please try to avoid using scriptures as arguments as all religions are eventually based on scriptures and this is not a valid argument IMO.

If you think that one religion is indeed the "right" one, do you believe that following the wrong religion is a "Sin" or on the lighter case, Not the way to salvation.
Please note I'm asking those question out of interest and not because I look for a religion to follow (I personally think they are all false).

I Raise this question because it seems that no matter who i debate, their religion is always seems to be the truth and the valid way to win God's favor.

Also, If indeed one religion is better than the other, Is it better to be a Good person believing the wrong religion or a Bad person believing the right religion?

And I'm not talking about Good and Bad in a sense of following traditions or Mitzvot..

For example:
For Jews, the Sabath is one of the holiest things..
So is it better to be a thief that keeps the Sabath or A decent honest person who sees Sunday as a holy day?

Regards All, and Happy Rosh hashana

"Do you think that God is really in favor of one religion? If so, Which one and why?"
My Answer: The only way to know "God" or his/her/its' will is to take a religious stance - or to have some sort of religious idea to know "God's will".

"If you think that one religion is indeed the "right" one"
My Answer: Again this is very subjective - depending on which religious stance you're looking from.

"Also, If indeed one religion is better than the other, Is it better to be a Good person believing the wrong religion or a Bad person believing the right religion?"
My Answer: There is 'right' and 'wrong'; in within a religion too, there is a kind of 'wrong believers' and 'right believers' - that of course if you believe that "God's truth" to be absolute.

Again this is my own view from a Monotheistic view of "God" and "Religion".

Hope it helps,
K

 

[12jtartar]

Segev Moran,
As I said about one of your other posts, you are very perceptive, BUT you are saying not to use Scriptures to prove a Bible doctrine. Really, the only place to find truth is in the Bible. There is an old saying that you can prove Anything you want to, from the Bible. Now listen, this can only be done if a person does not have a good understanding of the Bible's message.
It is absolutely as you say, that most religions are false, but God has made sure that there would always be ONE faith that He would bless, Ephesians 4:3-6. Meditate for a little, on what these Scriptures are saying.
The problem with anyone looking for the One blessed you God is, people look in the wrong place.
The Bible tells us that true Christians are looked down on and hated, just as Jesus was. Think about theses Scriptures, John 15:18-20. Think about what is said at Luke 6:22,23, 26. You understand what these Scriptures are saying??? Most people look for the most popular religion, when that is the opposite place to look. The Bible tells us that all Christians WILL be persecuted, 2Timothy 3:12. Here is another place that describes true Christians, 1Corinthians 1:26-28.
If you would look for the one true religion, would you think that the one hated by the world would be the true Faith, Matthew 10:22, 24:9.
God is going to judge this world by His Son, and the things written in His Word, The Bible. For this reason. God promised to protect His word from all generations, Psalms 12:6,7, Isaiah 40:8, 1Peter 1:25. Jesus said that God's word is truth, John 17:17.
You have a reasoning mind, but don't think that you can reason something from your own mind that is better than God's words. When you do that you are doing what is called, Doping Out, because we are all dopes when compared with the Almighty, Omniscience God, Proverbs 3:57, Isaiah 55:8,9. When we try to reason on nothing and reach a conclusion different than what the Bible says, it is an example of Egocentric Predicament, we just o not know enough to disagree with God. Consider these Scriptures, Proverbs 2:1-9.

 

[Segev Moran]

My Answer: The only way to know "God" or his/her/its' will is to take a religious stance - or to have some sort of religious idea to know "God's will".

Ok.. but which of the religions? And if you can't point on a right one, this means you don't really know... So to claim you have the answers is a wrong claim..
Don't get me wrong please.. I think spirituality can be a great way for someone to interpret and invent meaning to his life.. but as you stated later.. as long as its subjective, it is not true to anyone but the one subject to the belief...

My Answer: Again this is very subjective - depending on which religious stance you're looking from.

Indeed.. Subjective, thus not necessarily true.
I Think that if religion was presented as "We think that there might be a God because..." is a whole different thing.
I have yet to encounter a religious person that this was his claim...

My Answer: There is 'right' and 'wrong'; in within a religion too, there is a kind of 'wrong believers' and 'right believers' - that of course if you believe that "God's truth" to be absolute.

Who defines who's right and who's wrong?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

And what if he didn't? That would make it Good?
You do realize that by saying dictator.. we actually referring to God.. yeah?
So God destroyed the company and Jesus came to save it?

God is like the Benevolent Benefactor who had our sin debt paid so that we can gain everlasting life as originally offered to Adam before his downfall.[/QUOTE]
Why would we need to pay God a Debt???[/QUOTE]

How is being a 'benevolent benefactor' equal to a dictator ? Isn't there a difference ?
God granted us free-will choices, so God does Not interfere with our choices by making us change them.

Satan is like the corrupted corporation CEO who put us in line for bankruptcy ( death )
God came to our rescue to undo all the damage Satan and Adam brought upon us.
If we could stop sinning we would Not die. Due to inheriting Adam's imperfections we can Not stop sinning. That also means we can Not resurrect oneself or another, so we need someone who can resurrect us. God's Son Jesus can and will - Revelation 1:18; 1 Corinthians 15:26; Isaiah 25:8

 

[URAVIP2ME]

This entire claim talks about the time after creation.. upon which god discovers that he did a good thing...
Satan was yet existing...

Satan (and all angels) existed in the invisible realm 'before' the creation of the visible realm which includes humans - Job 38:7. God does Not say ' good ' after Satan enters the paradisical edenic picture.

 

[Jonathan Ainsley Bain]

Hi All,

I Was wondering what you think about the various religions and religion streams in the world.

Do you think that God is really in favor of one religion? If so, Which one and why?
Please try to avoid using scriptures as arguments as all religions are eventually based on scriptures and this is not a valid argument IMO.

If you think that one religion is indeed the "right" one, do you believe that following the wrong religion is a "Sin" or on the lighter case, Not the way to salvation.
Please note I'm asking those question out of interest and not because I look for a religion to follow (I personally think they are all false).

I Raise this question because it seems that no matter who i debate, their religion is always seems to be the truth and the valid way to win God's favor.

Also, If indeed one religion is better than the other, Is it better to be a Good person believing the wrong religion or a Bad person believing the right religion?

And I'm not talking about Good and Bad in a sense of following traditions or Mitzvot..

For example:
For Jews, the Sabath is one of the holiest things..
So is it better to be a thief that keeps the Sabath or A decent honest person who sees Sunday as a holy day?

Regards All, and Happy Rosh hashana

I think that the only 'true' (authentic) religion is Mysticism.
What that means, is that one's religious viewpoint is correct when it is due to direct
personal experience of spirituality. If you have had no such experience, then you
are correct in claiming to be agnostic.

However it makes no logical sense to claim to be atheist unless you are also claiming
to have experienced everything in the entire universe.

It should be quite clear that the universe is a very diverse place,
regardless of what one sees as the underlying existential reality.
So there are many paths to experiencing the Divine. If God wanted us all
to be identical in our approach, then the wonder of these many paths would
not exist. Also, many paths are dead ends too. Its like a never-ending maze.

I am Christian because I have spoken to Christ twice, and John the Baptist 3 times.
Before that (for most of my life) I was a Pantheist and observed a distant un-involved
'Creator of all Nature'. I was very surprised to witness the Christian spirits.
Before then I would have bet that it was more likely to have communed with Thor or Brigid or Shiva.

Go figure.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Someone might even call it a "Marketing" tactics
So the people who wrote the Bible(V2)... Weren't the ones that knew what Jesus was teaching? and if they did know, why wouldn't write it in the book? why not say that Jesus said this rather meant that?

Yes, I suppose it could be said that Satan, as a corrupted CEO, used ' marketing ' tactics to bring down mankind because Satan's lying tactics to Eve that she would Not die thus wanting humans to worship him instead of God. By breaking God's Law would show choosing Satan as CEO thus making Satan their 'god' - Romans 5:12

Of course, none of the men who wrote the old Hebrew Scriptures knew who would be Messiah. (VI)
In the Christian Scriptures it is recorded what Jesus ' said ' especially when Jesus was referring to the old Hebrew Scriptures - Luke 4:4; Luke 4:8; Luke 4:12: Luke 4:21 - for example.
If you look up the word ' said ' in a comprehensive Bible concordance you can see how many time the word ' said ' is used by the Bible writers in connection to what Jesus said.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I am Christian because I have spoken to Christ twice, and John the Baptist 3 times.
Before that (for most of my life) I was a Pantheist and observed a distant un-involved
'Creator of all Nature'. I was very surprised to witness the Christian spirits.
.

Please keep in mind what Jesus taught such as at John 3:13
Jesus was well educated in the old Hebrew Scriptures which teach sleep in death (Not speaking in death) - Psalms 6:5; Psalms 3:13; Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4; Daniel 12:2; Daniel 12:13; Ecclesiastes 9:5

That is why, to me, Jesus likened death to unconscious sleep at John 11:12-14.
Since No one who died before Jesus died is resurrected yet (which includes John the Baptist - Matthew 11:11, and King David - Acts of the Apostles 2:34) then No one can talk with them before they are resurrected during Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rulership over Earth begins.
To me, that is why the ' future tense ' is used at Acts of the Apostles 24:15 that there ' is going to be ' a resurrection........

 

[Jonathan Ainsley Bain]

Please keep in mind what Jesus taught such as at John 3:13
Jesus was well educated in the old Hebrew Scriptures which teach sleep in death (Not speaking in death) - Psalms 6:5; Psalms 3:13; Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4; Daniel 12:2; Daniel 12:13; Ecclesiastes 9:5

That is why, to me, Jesus likened death to unconscious sleep at John 11:12-14.
Since No one who died before Jesus died is resurrected yet (which includes John the Baptist - Matthew 11:11, and King David - Acts of the Apostles 2:34) then No one can talk with them before they are resurrected during Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rulership over Earth begins.
To me, that is why the ' future tense ' is used at Acts of the Apostles 24:15 that there ' is going to be ' a resurrection........

Neither were in the flesh, so neither were resurrected.
Christ himself spoke to the prophets before his 'death' and this was observed by others.
My experiences do not contradict the scriptures.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Ok.. but which of the religions? And if you can't point on a right one, this means you don't really know... So to claim you have the answers is a wrong claim..
Don't get me wrong please.. I think spirituality can be a great way for someone to interpret and invent meaning to his life.. but as you stated later.. as long as its subjective, it is not true to anyone but the one subject to the belief...
Indeed.. Subjective, thus not necessarily true.
I Think that if religion was presented as "We think that there might be a God because..." is a whole different thing.
I have yet to encounter a religious person that this was his claim...
Who defines who's right and who's wrong?

From a biblical standpoint, to me, Jesus us the one who defines who's right and who's wrong.
Because of Jesus' teachings, as recorded in Scripture, we think there is a God.
In other words, clergy teaching church traditions, or church customs as Scripture, but which are Not found in Scripture, is Not what the Bible really teaches about Christ.

People can find purpose or meaning in life without spirituality. Only Jesus' teachings gives: hope.
Hope of endless life either in heaven for some, and hope of endless life on Earth for the majority starting with Day One of Jesus' coming millennium-long day of governing over Earth.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Neither were in the flesh, so neither were resurrected.
Christ himself spoke to the prophets before his 'death' and this was observed by others.
My experiences do not contradict the scriptures.

If you are referring to the transfiguration scene please keep in mind it was a Vision - Matthew 17:9
The transfiguration scene, to me, was Not a real happening but a 'vision'.
A 'vision' of what is to come as part of Jesus' coming glory time - Matthew 25:31 - that will come in the future, and then mankind will be under Jesus' 1,000-year governmental rulership over Earth.

 

[Segev Moran]

God is like the Benevolent Benefactor who had our sin debt paid so that we can gain everlasting life as originally offered to Adam before his downfall.

Why would we need to pay God a Debt???[/QUOTE]

How is being a 'benevolent benefactor' equal to a dictator ? Isn't there a difference ?
God granted us free-will choices, so God does Not interfere with our choices by making us change them.

Satan is like the corrupted corporation CEO who put us in line for bankruptcy ( death )
God came to our rescue to undo all the damage Satan and Adam brought upon us.
If we could stop sinning we would Not die. Due to inheriting Adam's imperfections we can Not stop sinning. That also means we can Not resurrect oneself or another, so we need someone who can resurrect us. God's Son Jesus can and will - Revelation 1:18; 1 Corinthians 15:26; Isaiah 25:8[/QUOTE]
So if The board chose the CEO, and allowed it to break the company into pieces.. isn't the board the one to take responsibility?
Just to make sure we are on the same page.. You metaphorically putting Satan as the CEO, Jesus as the benefactor and God as the owner / board of the company right?
I Don't really like this metaphor, But I'll continue for the sake of this argument

 

[Segev Moran]

Satan (and all angels) existed in the invisible realm 'before' the creation of the visible realm which includes humans - Job 38:7. God does Not say ' good ' after Satan enters the paradisical edenic picture.

So there was a lot going on before the creation?
I Can't find any reference of this in Genesis.. Rather that at the beginning there was chaos and God's spirit was hovering over the water...
And if what you say is true.. How do we know it was God who created the universe and not any of the other "invisible realm" inhabitants?
Maybe the HUMAN who wrote the book mistakenly thought that God did it while all along it was not?

 

[Segev Moran]

I think that the only 'true' (authentic) religion is Mysticism.
What that means, is that one's religious viewpoint is correct when it is due to direct
personal experience of spirituality. If you have had no such experience, then you
are correct in claiming to be agnostic.

That's understandable.. If someone truly believes that he is experiencing God or what ever other supernatural experience, Great.. great for Him...
This still doesn't mean that it is a true thing...
If I have an amazing sense of "enlightenment" whenever I think about the stars.. this does not mean the stars are a divine entity other than in my own POV.
I can not, in whatever way possible, claim that the stars are a divine thing objectively..
I Accept the fact that religion is a subjective way of thinking.. nothing more.

However it makes no logical sense to claim to be atheist unless you are also claiming
to have experienced everything in the entire universe.

I Think it is illogical to claim to know a truth about something before you have a way of validating its authenticity.
I Can claim that Djins are real.. i can experience many experiences that might make me feel that they are indeed real.. this doesn't make it a valid claim to say they are real.
So the Atheist POV says, I you can't support something with enough good and valid evidence (One that is not subjective), There is no reason to regard it as truth. That's it.

It should be quite clear that the universe is a very diverse place,
regardless of what one sees as the underlying existential reality.
So there are many paths to experiencing the Divine. If God wanted us all
to be identical in our approach, then the wonder of these many paths would
not exist. Also, many paths are dead ends too. Its like a never-ending maze.

Can you clearly distinguish between someone who is delusional to someone who claims to have had a revelation?
If so, I would love to hear what would be your way of deciding that.

I am Christian because I have spoken to Christ twice, and John the Baptist 3 times.
Before that (for most of my life) I was a Pantheist and observed a distant un-involved
'Creator of all Nature'. I was very surprised to witness the Christian spirits.
Before then I would have bet that it was more likely to have communed with Thor or Brigid or Shiva.

Again.. Are you a 100% sure, without any doubt.. that you were not imagining this?
I Understand that you feel you KNOW it was true.. But same goes for thousands of people that KNOWS that they communicate with green aliens..

Go figure.

Frankly.. I Can't

 

[Segev Moran]

Yes, I suppose it could be said that Satan, as a corrupted CEO, used ' marketing ' tactics to bring down mankind

I Was talking about Jesus.. Not Satan ...You said Jesus told stories.. and only those who followed him got to hear the truth.. Marketing 101

because Satan's lying tactics to Eve that she would Not die thus wanting humans to worship him instead of God.

You do realize of course that Satan in that case was speaking the truth.. Eve didn't really die as God said she will..
So who is the deceiver in the story?

Of course, none of the men who wrote the old Hebrew Scriptures knew who would be Messiah. (VI)
In the Christian Scriptures it is recorded what Jesus ' said ' especially when Jesus was referring to the old Hebrew Scriptures - Luke 4:4; Luke 4:8; Luke 4:12: Luke 4:21 - for example.
If you look up the word ' said ' in a comprehensive Bible concordance you can see how many time the word ' said ' is used by the Bible writers in connection to what Jesus said.

???

 

[Segev Moran]

From a biblical standpoint, to me, Jesus us the one who defines who's right and who's wrong.
Because of Jesus' teachings, as recorded in Scripture, we think there is a God.
In other words, clergy teaching church traditions, or church customs as Scripture, but which are Not found in Scripture, is Not what the Bible really teaches about Christ.

People can find purpose or meaning in life without spirituality. Only Jesus' teachings gives: hope.
Hope of endless life either in heaven for some, and hope of endless life on Earth for the majority starting with Day One of Jesus' coming millennium-long day of governing over Earth.

As long as it is presented as Hoping there is an afterlife.. NP.. again.. the question is regarding religion.. no religion claims to HOPE there is a God... they claim to KNOW there is a God..