Is one religion better than the other.. and if so....

[URAVIP2ME]

So there was a lot going on before the creation?
I Can't find any reference of this in Genesis.. Rather that at the beginning there was chaos and God's spirit was hovering over the water...
And if what you say is true.. How do we know it was God who created the universe and not any of the other "invisible realm" inhabitants?
Maybe the HUMAN who wrote the book mistakenly thought that God did it while all along it was not?

Please notice what is first mentioned at Genesis 1:1 that God created the 'Heavens'.......
So, the heavenly realm was in existence before the earthly realm.
All of the other planets were named by men, but Earth was named by God - Genesis 1:10
According to Psalms 90:2 only God is from everlasting.....
God is Creator - Revelation 4:11

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I Was talking about Jesus.. Not Satan ...You said Jesus told stories.. and only those who followed him got to hear the truth.. Marketing 101
You do realize of course that Satan in that case was speaking the truth.. Eve didn't really die as God said she will..
So who is the deceiver in the story?
???

When was the last time you saw Eve ?
If Eve did Not die she would still be alive on Earth.
All died within that thousand-year day time frame - Genesis 5:5; Genesis 5:27
Eve was a sinner, and the soul that sins dies according to Ezekiel 18:4; Ezekiel 18:20
And as gospel writer Luke wrote the soul can be destroyed - Acts of the Apostles 3:23
Which is in harmony with Jesus' words at Matthew 10:28 B ( destroyed )
ALL the wicked will be destroyed forever - Psalms 92:7

 

[URAVIP2ME]

As long as it is presented as Hoping there is an afterlife.. NP.. again.. the question is regarding religion.. no religion claims to HOPE there is a God... they claim to KNOW there is a God..

Often clergy wrongly present ' afterlife ' with soul immortality going to heaven.
Whereas what the Bible really teaches is ' resurrection '
Some people resurrected to heaven - Revelation 20:6; Revelation 5:9-10, but the majority of mankind is offered everlasting life on Earth - Matthew 5:5; Proverbs 2:21-22.
That is why the ' future tense ' is used at Acts of the Apostles 24:15 that there ' is going to be ' a resurrection.....
The time for the 'living' humble meek to inherit the Earth begins with Day One of Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rulership over Earth. We are nearing the soon coming ' time of separation ' of Matthew 25:31-33,37 when those figurative living ' sheep' on Earth can remain alive on Earth, and continue to live on Earth right into the start of Jesus' millennium-long day of governing over Earth when even enemy death will be No more ever again - 1 Corinthians 15:26; Isaiah 25:8

 

[URAVIP2ME]

[QUOTE="Segev Moran, post: 4919370, member: 59931"[/QUOTE]

Satan is like the corrupted corporation CEO who put us in line for bankruptcy ( death )
God came to our rescue to undo all the damage Satan and Adam brought upon us.
If we could stop sinning we would Not die. Due to inheriting Adam's imperfections we can Not stop sinning. That also means we can Not resurrect oneself or another, so we need someone who can resurrect us. God's Son Jesus can and will - Revelation 1:18; 1 Corinthians 15:26; Isaiah 25:8[/QUOTE]

So if The board chose the CEO, and allowed it to break the company into pieces.. isn't the board the one to take responsibility?
Just to make sure we are on the same page.. You metaphorically putting Satan as the CEO, Jesus as the benefactor and God as the owner / board of the company right?
I Don't really like this metaphor, But I'll continue for the sake of this argument [/QUOTE]

Very interesting question about the board taking the responsibility.
Let's suppose those corrupted board members of that huge bank end up spending time in jail.
( corrupted Satan with his member demons along with those who follow them )
Where does that leave us as being a member of that bankrupted bank but left in poverty if all was lost.
Now for the sake of illustration a very-rich banker, as a benevolent benefactor (God), comes along and restores the bank for us, and he restores our savings, how does one show appreciation to him.
Just write him a thank-you card, or ?

To me, Jesus' ransom for us is through God and he restores what was lost. 'Thanks' requires a process.
For one example please notice the action that one woman used at Matthew 26:12-13.
Acts of the Apostles 17:26-28 says ways to seek ' thank ' God for He is Not far off from us.
Seek God as Zephaniah 2:3 wrote which also involves being humble and meek, seeking righteousness.
Thus, what Satan and Adam lost for us will be restored to us ( eternal life on Earth in perfect health ).
Starting with Day One of Jesus' 1,000-year reign over Earth, Jesus will undo all the damage done to us.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

When was the last time you saw Eve ?

About the last time I saw Jesus.

If Eve did Not die she would still be alive on Earth.

That does not follow. You had to eat from the Tree of Life to become immortal.

ALL the wicked will be destroyed forever

So much for Jesus' mission, then.

The time for the 'living' humble meek to inherit the Earth begins with Day One of Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rulership over Earth. We are nearing the soon coming ' time of separation ' of Matthew 25:31-33,37 when those figurative living ' sheep' on Earth can remain alive on Earth, and continue to live on Earth right into the start of Jesus' millennium-long day of governing over Earth when even enemy death will be No more ever again

How do the meek have enough cajones to step up and take a planet?

Now for the sake of illustration a very-rich banker, as a benevolent benefactor (God), comes along and restores the bank for us, and he restores our savings, how does one show appreciation to him.

We're still getting collection notices in the mail, though. "Dear Bank Employee, We would like to inform you that despite the bank getting its money back, you still owe thousands of dollars on your bill because your great great grandfather, who was part of the board 150 years ago, embezzled 50 cents from the bank once. We intend to press charges and you will be jailed indefinitely."

 

[Muffled]

Indeed it is

Who is Us? And seeing is believing is kinda weird argument when it comes to creationism...

I Can actually agree on that... So how based on that can we decide what is good or Bad?
I Assume a serial killer sees he's murdering just the way he conceived them.. This doesn't mean they are good.

So this is what makes It experimental.. If you need to start over, It means you failed no?
As you said, God flooded the earth because he saw it was Bad.. yet in the creation that was Good in it's eyes...


So dictatorship is Good?

I believe people tend to see things as they are and think this is the original design but I don't see it that way.

I believe we can't. We either accept what God say about it or we don't.

True but thankfully serial killers are not Lords of the universe.

I believe it is not experimental. God knows what is good but He isn't getting it. So He will keep starting over until He does get it. It was originally good but something spoiled it.

I believe God prefers free will so although He can just return everything to a good state, His desire is to get people to willingly accept that goodness.

 

[Segev Moran]

I believe people tend to see things as they are and think this is the original design but I don't see it that way.

I Agree that people see things as they are, My problem is when they see things the way they aren't and claiming that this is the way they are...

I believe we can't. We either accept what God say about it or we don't.

When you say God's word you refer to the scriptures?

True but thankfully serial killers are not Lords of the universe.

It is a lucky thing indeed.

I believe it is not experimental. God knows what is good but He isn't getting it. So He will keep starting over until He does get it. It was originally good but something spoiled it.
I believe God prefers free will so although He can just return everything to a good state, His desire is to get people to willingly accept that goodness.

That kinda confuses me.
So god created everything...
saw it was Good as it decided that it is good..
Then It created humans.. and saw it was Good...
Then It gave the Humans the free will..but this was no good..
The outcome of this No Good decision God made, generated a bad outcome, so god stated over...
Yet again, Free will, messed up everything...
This time God knew it was Bad yet decided to leave it as is and more than that, decided to never "Reset" its creation again (Noah?)
From that time on... even though God knows things are Not good, it doesn't intervene because it decided to go with free will.
God however, although deciding to allow free will with all the consequences, decides to secretly manipulate things to make sure that its first decision to let the free will rule humans doesn't cause the existence of its creation to end...
As God realized its decisions led to a Bad state of humanity, it sends its own son, J, to try and Fix everything in the form of a sacrifice... this sacrifice will redeem humans for following Gods decision to allow free will...
Unfortunately, God didn't think about the fact that J's word will not travel through the entire planet and also asked J to speak in riddles and metaphors so that its creation, the humans, will not have an immediate understanding of God, rather will learn it through suffering, pain, struggle and misery that is caused due to the way God created the universe.

Sounds very reasonable
, [/quote]

 

[Jonathan Ainsley Bain]

I Accept the fact that religion is a subjective way of thinking.. nothing more.

Well all thinking necessitates subject and object. (Read Kant)

Can you clearly distinguish between someone who is delusional to someone who claims to have had a revelation?

Well, in my experience, I had the first revelation/delusion, and then pondered the experience for 20 years,
during which I studied psychology and philosophy to the post-grad level trying to figure out whether the experience
was real or not. During this time, I had several more such experiences; but did not choose to decide their 'realness'
immediately at all. As part of this pondering, I chose to live in each of the alternate 'realities' at different times.
So I would live 'as if' they were delusions for some years, then I would live 'as if' they were real experience in later years.

There was nothing impractical that the experiences were telling me outright, so it was viable either way.
But I found that in the most recent years, I have an underlying joy of life when assuming that the experiences are real.
Sure sometimes events get me down, and then I view the world through the mystical Christian lens and I see that the
reasons why events occur are for a greater good. It has much to do with perspective on material attachment.

So it comes down to which is pragmatical for me personally. Which is quite an objective reason. (With a subject).

When observing others, its less clear, but again, if a person with certain beliefs is having a fulfilling life,
while other beliefs just seem to bring misery, then the proof is fairly objective.

'Ye shall know them by the fruits of their labor'

 

[Guy Threepwood]

Hi All,

I Was wondering what you think about the various religions and religion streams in the world.

Do you think that God is really in favor of one religion? If so, Which one and why?
Please try to avoid using scriptures as arguments as all religions are eventually based on scriptures and this is not a valid argument IMO.

If you think that one religion is indeed the "right" one, do you believe that following the wrong religion is a "Sin" or on the lighter case, Not the way to salvation.
Please note I'm asking those question out of interest and not because I look for a religion to follow (I personally think they are all false).

I Raise this question because it seems that no matter who i debate, their religion is always seems to be the truth and the valid way to win God's favor.

Also, If indeed one religion is better than the other, Is it better to be a Good person believing the wrong religion or a Bad person believing the right religion?

And I'm not talking about Good and Bad in a sense of following traditions or Mitzvot..

For example:
For Jews, the Sabath is one of the holiest things..
So is it better to be a thief that keeps the Sabath or A decent honest person who sees Sunday as a holy day?

Regards All, and Happy Rosh hashana

I'd say direct observation

Look at the Christian western world, then the Middle East, then atheists states like USSR, North Korea, communist China...

Which looks more favorable to you?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

About the last time I saw Jesus.
That does not follow. You had to eat from the Tree of Life to become immortal.
So much for Jesus' mission, then.
How do the meek have enough cajones to step up and take a planet?
We're still getting collection notices in the mail, though. "Dear Bank Employee, We would like to inform you that despite the bank getting its money back, you still owe thousands of dollars on your bill because your great great grandfather, who was part of the board 150 years ago, embezzled 50 cents from the bank once. We intend to press charges and you will be jailed indefinitely."

No, Adam was Never offered immortality.
Adam could have everlasting life on Earth only if he did Not break God's Law.

The words from Jesus' mouth will execute the wicked - Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-16; Proverbs 2:21-22, thus the meek will inherit the Earth. The wicked are destroyed forever - Psalms 92:7

 

[Tumah]

Hi All,

I Was wondering what you think about the various religions and religion streams in the world.

Do you think that God is really in favor of one religion? If so, Which one and why?
Please try to avoid using scriptures as arguments as all religions are eventually based on scriptures and this is not a valid argument IMO.

This question only makes sense if you look at all religions as man made creations vying for G-d's favor. I'm not sure that most religions look at it that way.
From my point of view, G-d only commanded certain things from certain people. Everything else He didn't.

If you think that one religion is indeed the "right" one, do you believe that following the wrong religion is a "Sin" or on the lighter case, Not the way to salvation.
Please note I'm asking those question out of interest and not because I look for a religion to follow (I personally think they are all false).

I think its a sin inasmuch as it usually involves transgressing what G-d did command in some way.

I Raise this question because it seems that no matter who i debate, their religion is always seems to be the truth and the valid way to win God's favor.

I'm astounded that this is something odd to you and it makes me wonder if you might have Asperger's. But I guess that's neither here nor there.

Also, If indeed one religion is better than the other, Is it better to be a Good person believing the wrong religion or a Bad person believing the right religion?

It sounds like you are asking, which are more important: the responsibilities man has to G-d or to his fellow man.
I think they are both equally important and I can't think of any case where one can transgress one to perform the other.

And I'm not talking about Good and Bad in a sense of following traditions or Mitzvot..

For example:
For Jews, the Sabath is one of the holiest things..
So is it better to be a thief that keeps the Sabath or A decent honest person who sees Sunday as a holy day?

The example you give is exactly the thing you say you are not talking about.

Happy Sukkos.

 

[Segev Moran]

immediately at all. As part of this pondering, I chose to live in each of the alternate 'realities' at different times.
So I would live 'as if' they were delusions for some years, then I would live 'as if' they were real experience in later years.

Why is there a difference about the way you live with or without them being true?
If for example tomorrow I know that God is real... I would change nothing about my life!
The way I live my life has got nothing to do with the question if there is a God or not!
I Find it quite disturbing that a lot of people do!
If the reason you are not doing something is only because there is a god, you need to ponder about that, and not the question if God is real or not IMO.

But I found that in the most recent years, I have an underlying joy of life when assuming that the experiences are real.

Can you give me an example, that you are doing today that you would have not done if you though God is not real?
Can you provide an example of you revelations and what was the thing that you "got" from them?

I am of course talking here about things that are non material.
I Am not talking about going to church or blessing the food on your table..
I Am talking about you behavior.. about kindness, about humanity and care to other beings.

Many times I hear people saying that before they "found God" they were leading crazy life.. they did drugs and crazy sex, they were drunk and abusive to other people and since they found God its all in the Past...

That has got nothing to do with God..
You can treat other people with dignity regardless if god exists or not!
You can not abuse your body regardless of God
You can treat sex as a wonderful human experience regardless of God..

So please, can you point me to ONE way of behavior that only if God is real I can follow it.

 

[Segev Moran]

I'd say direct observation

Look at the Christian western world, then the Middle East, then atheists states like USSR, North Korea, communist China...

Which looks more favorable to you?

I'm from the middle east, And i find it quite sad that you think the status here is because God favors someone else!
The state here is as it is because people actually think that God favors them over others.. so your claim is WAAAAAAAAAAY off...

And you forgot about Sweden, France, Australia, Japan, Iceland...
North Korea is far from being Atheist country..
This country uses nothing but religion concepts to control and manipulate their people. A lot of those countries abuse the idea of worship and address it to the leader of the country instead of God...
That's quite far from atheism.

 

[Segev Moran]

This question only makes sense if you look at all religions as man made creations

Ahhhh Duh???

G-d only commanded certain things from certain people. Everything else He didn't.

Can you give an example of what God commanded THAT IS NOT IN THE SCRIPTURES?

I'm astounded that this is something odd to you and it makes me wonder if you might have Asperger's. But I guess that's neither here nor there.

Wow.. Nice one...
I Don't find it Odd, I Find it absurd! That's a big difference..
For example, I Find it absurd that you decide that you know what God commanded and what not based on someone else's word.
Do you think its got anything to do with the way you were raised? Not asking as a sarcastic question.. I really wonder if you think education and the culture you are raised by has got anything to do with the fact you think your God or your religion is the right one?

It sounds like you are asking, which are more important: the responsibilities man has to G-d or to his fellow man.

Nope.. What I'm asking is what is more important.. RELIGION or HUMANITY...
A Lot of times they go well together, no doubt, But I'm asking about the times they are not.

 

[Jonathan Ainsley Bain]

Why is there a difference about the way you live with or without them being true?

To risk death for the good of the world, knowing that if you die, you will be born into that better world you worked towards.

 

[Jonathan Ainsley Bain]

Can you give me an example, that you are doing today that you would have not done if you though God is not real?
Can you provide an example of you revelations and what was the thing that you "got" from them?

One example springs to mind, is that when one lives for the eternal re-incarnated life, one starts to see
how those who only live for this life seem preoccupied with defining their lives in material terms.
Whether it be through having many offspring, accumulating wealth, or physical pleasure, or social status.

My greatest earthly pleasure is in advancing understanding of astrophysics, knowing that it is highly unlikely
that I will in this lifetime see humanity take to the stars. And that does not hinder the pursuit of truth.
I know that perhaps a hundred or maybe two hundred years from now my efforts will have an affect,
and I will still enjoy them.

 

[Jonathan Ainsley Bain]

You can treat sex as a wonderful human experience regardless of God..

Its actually quite a base experience, in comparison to God.
People tell themselves they are enjoying it, especially beyond their 20's.
But its like the soldier conquering others.
Its just their ego saying: 'I conquered you'.
Its no more pleasurable than eating a sandwich actually.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

One example springs to mind, is that when one lives for the eternal re-incarnated life, one starts to see
how those who only live for this life seem preoccupied with defining their lives in material terms.
My greatest earthly pleasure is in advancing understanding of astrophysics, knowing that it is highly unlikely
that I will in this lifetime see humanity take to the stars. And that does not hinder the pursuit of truth.
I know that perhaps a hundred or maybe two hundred years from now my efforts will have an affect,
and I will still enjoy them.

Besides those who live for the eternal re-incarnated life, there are those who live for the eternal resurrected life - see 1 Corinthians 15:12-14; 1 Corinthians 15:15-17.
Beginning with calendar Day One of Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental rulership over Earth, that will be the start of eternal physical life on Earth. That is why the ' future tense ' is used at Acts of the Apostles 24:15 that there ' is going to be ' a resurrection.....

Except for those of Matthew 12:32; Hebrews 6:4-6, there will be a resurrection - Romans 6:7,23.
The majority of mankind will have the same opportunity to live forever on Earth as originally offered to Adam before his downfall. Those who had an interest in astrophysics will still have that same interest.

Those of us who are still alive living on Earth after the soon coming ' time of separation ' on Earth - Matthew 25:31-33 - and have an interest in astrophysics can continue to have that interest to pursue during Jesus' millennium-long day of governing over Earth because enemy death will be No more on Earth.
- 1 Corinthians 15:26; Isaiah 25:8

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I'd say direct observation
Look at the Christian western world, then the Middle East, then atheists states like USSR, North Korea, communist China...
Which looks more favorable to you?

Or, rather to say, 'look at the so-called Christian world' ( western or otherwise ).
Since the death of the apostles an apostasy began in the Christian world - Acts of the Apostles 20:29-30
So, the modern monstrosity today called 'Christendom' is mostly Christian in name only.
What should look more or most favorable is what Jesus taught in his New commandment to have self-sacrificing love for others as he did - John 13:34-35.
So, the majority of 'professed Christians' today are so-called Christians in name only - Matthew 7:21-23

 

[Segev Moran]

To risk death for the good of the world, knowing that if you die, you will be born into that better world you worked towards.

I Would risk death just the same like you without believing there is anything after my life is over..
What's your point?
If Someone will put a gun to my family's head, I'll give up my life without even thinking about it just the same an ANY other person!
There are religious people that will do, There are Atheist that will do, Just like there are religious people that won't and atheist people that won't.

To risk death for the good of the world, knowing that if you die, you will be born into that better world you worked towards.

Unless you go to hell of course (Or whatever notion of hell and misery one believes)