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Is Quran copied from Jewish Bible/Torah? : Quran did not copy from Jewish Bible/Torah

Flankerl

Flankerl

Well-Known Member
paarsurrey said:
Muhammad did not quote from Talmud.
Click to expand...

Whoever destroys a soul, it is considered as if he destroyed an entire world. And whoever saves a life, it is considered as if he saved an entire world. — Mishnah Sanhedrin 4:9

Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely
http://quran.com/5/32


Oups.
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Flankerl said:
Whoever destroys a soul, it is considered as if he destroyed an entire world. And whoever saves a life, it is considered as if he saved an entire world. — Mishnah Sanhedrin 4:9
Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely
http://quran.com/5/32
Oups.
Click to expand...
I did not quote in this thread verses from Chapter 5. Al-Ma'idah as mentioned by you, as yet. Did I? Please
Regards
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Flankerl said:
Whoever destroys a soul, it is considered as if he destroyed an entire world. And whoever saves a life, it is considered as if he saved an entire world. — Mishnah Sanhedrin 4:9
Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely
http://quran.com/5/32
Oups.
Click to expand...
Did Moses write it? (coloured in magenta) Please
Regards
 
leibowde84

leibowde84

Veteran Member
paarsurrey said:
Who wrote Mishnah? What is your 100% accurate source as to who wrote it and when? Please
Regards
Click to expand...
You often make very unreasonable demands when anyone makes a claim that contradicts your already held beliefs. We certainly don't have 100% accuracy as to who wrote the Quran, the Gospels, or any other ancient religious text.

But, in this case, it is very easy to see that the Mishnah was written in the 3rd century from oral traditions that were far older than that.

The Mishnah or Mishna (/ˈmɪʃnə/; Hebrew: מִשְׁנָה, "study by repetition"), from the verb shanah שנה, or "to study and review", also "secondary,"[1] is the first major writtenredaction of the Jewish oral traditions known as the "Oral Torah". It is also the first major work of Rabbinic literature.[2][3]

The Mishnah was redacted by Rabbi Yehudah HaNasi before his death around 217 CE,[4] in a time when, according to the Talmud, the persecution of the Jews and the passage of time raised the possibility that the details of the oral traditions of thePharisees from the Second Temple period (536 BCE – 70 CE) would be forgotten. The majority of the Mishnah is written in Mishnaic Hebrew, while some parts areAramaic.

Here are some sources (20) that confirm his claim that the Mishnah was written well before Muhammad in the 3rd Century. This is also the consensus of all experts in the field of religious traditions and texts. So, if you are going to disagree with all of the experts in this area of study, you should at least provide your reasoning for doing so.

Notes
  1. Jump up^ The same meaning is suggested by the term Deuterosis ("doubling" or "repetition" in Ancient Greek) used in Roman law and Patristic literature. However it is not always clear from the context whether the reference is to the Mishnah or to the Targum, which could be regarded as a "doubling" of the Torah reading.
  2. Jump up^ The list of joyful days known as Megillat Taanit is older, but according to the Talmud it is no longer in force.
  3. Jump up^ "Commentary on Tractate Avot with an Introduction (Shemona perakim)". World Digital Library. Retrieved 19 March 2013.
  4. Jump up^ "Mishnah". ucalgary.ca.
  5. Jump up^ Ronald L. Eisenberg, "Rabbinic Literature," in The JPS Guide to Jewish Traditions (Philadelphia: The Jewish Publication Society, 2004), pp. 499–500.
  6. Jump up^ Yesod Hamishna Va'arichatah pp. 25–28 (Hebrew text PDF)
  7. Jump up^ Babylonian Talmud, Temurah 14b; Gittin 60a.
  8. Jump up^ See, Strack, Hermann, Introduction to the Talmud and Midrash, Jewish Publication Society, 1945. pp. 11–12. "[The Oral Law] was handed down by word of mouth during a long period. ... The first attempts to write down the traditional matter, there is reason to believe, date from the first half of the second post-Christian century." Strack theorizes that the growth of a Christian canon (the New Testament) was a factor that influenced the Rabbis to record the oral law in writing.
  9. Jump up^ The theory that the destruction of the Temple and subsequent upheaval led to the committing of Oral Law into writing was first explained in the Epistle of Sherira Gaon and often repeated. See, for example, Grayzel, A History of the Jews, Penguin Books, 1984, p. 193.
  10. Jump up^ Nosson Dovid Rabinowich, ed. (1988). The Iggeres of Rav Sherira Gaon. Jerusalem. pp. 28–29. OCLC 20044324. html.
  11. Jump up^ Though as shown below, there is some disagreement about whether the Mishnah was originally put in writing.
  12. Jump up^ Outhwaite, Ben. "Mishnah". Cambridge Digital Library. Retrieved 16 September 2013.
  13. Jump up^ The plural term (singular tanna) for the Rabbinic sages whose views are recorded in the Mishnah; from the Aramaic root tanna(תנא) equivalent for the Hebrew root shanah (שנה), as in Mishnah.
  14. Jump up^ Abraham ben David calculated the date 189 CE. Seder Ha-Kabbalah Leharavad, Jerusalem 1971, p.16 (Hebrew)
  15. Jump up^ According to the Epistle (Iggeret) of Sherira Gaon.
  16. Jump up^ This theory was held by David Zvi Hoffman, and is repeated in the introduction to Herbert Danby's Mishnah translation.
  17. Jump up^ Shelomo Morag, The Samaritan and Yemenite Tradition of Hebrew (published in: The Traditions of Hebrew and Aramaic of the Jews of Yemen; ed. Yosef Tobi), Tel-Aviv 2001, p. 183 (note 12)
  18. Jump up^ Daat.ac.il
  19. Jump up^ Daat.ac.il Maimonides' introduction (Hebrew)
  20. Jump up^ http://www.erudit.org/revue/ttr/2009/v22/n2/044829ar.pdf
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
leibowde84 said:
You often make very unreasonable demands when anyone makes a claim that contradicts your already held beliefs. We certainly don't have 100% accuracy as to who wrote the Quran, the Gospels, or any other ancient religious text.

But, in this case, it is very easy to see that the Mishnah was written in the 3rd century from oral traditions that were far older than that.

The Mishnah or Mishna (/ˈmɪʃnə/; Hebrew: מִשְׁנָה, "study by repetition"), from the verb shanah שנה, or "to study and review", also "secondary,"[1] is the first major writtenredaction of the Jewish oral traditions known as the "Oral Torah". It is also the first major work of Rabbinic literature.[2][3]

The Mishnah was redacted by Rabbi Yehudah HaNasi before his death around 217 CE,[4] in a time when, according to the Talmud, the persecution of the Jews and the passage of time raised the possibility that the details of the oral traditions of thePharisees from the Second Temple period (536 BCE – 70 CE) would be forgotten. The majority of the Mishnah is written in Mishnaic Hebrew, while some parts areAramaic.

Here are some sources (20) that confirm his claim that the Mishnah was written well before Muhammad in the 3rd Century. This is also the consensus of all experts in the field of religious traditions and texts. So, if you are going to disagree with all of the experts in this area of study, you should at least provide your reasoning for doing so.

Notes
  1. Jump up^ The same meaning is suggested by the term Deuterosis ("doubling" or "repetition" in Ancient Greek) used in Roman law and Patristic literature. However it is not always clear from the context whether the reference is to the Mishnah or to the Targum, which could be regarded as a "doubling" of the Torah reading.
  2. Jump up^ The list of joyful days known as Megillat Taanit is older, but according to the Talmud it is no longer in force.
  3. Jump up^ "Commentary on Tractate Avot with an Introduction (Shemona perakim)". World Digital Library. Retrieved 19 March 2013.
  4. Jump up^ "Mishnah". ucalgary.ca.
  5. Jump up^ Ronald L. Eisenberg, "Rabbinic Literature," in The JPS Guide to Jewish Traditions (Philadelphia: The Jewish Publication Society, 2004), pp. 499–500.
  6. Jump up^ Yesod Hamishna Va'arichatah pp. 25–28 (Hebrew text PDF)
  7. Jump up^ Babylonian Talmud, Temurah 14b; Gittin 60a.
  8. Jump up^ See, Strack, Hermann, Introduction to the Talmud and Midrash, Jewish Publication Society, 1945. pp. 11–12. "[The Oral Law] was handed down by word of mouth during a long period. ... The first attempts to write down the traditional matter, there is reason to believe, date from the first half of the second post-Christian century." Strack theorizes that the growth of a Christian canon (the New Testament) was a factor that influenced the Rabbis to record the oral law in writing.
  9. Jump up^ The theory that the destruction of the Temple and subsequent upheaval led to the committing of Oral Law into writing was first explained in the Epistle of Sherira Gaon and often repeated. See, for example, Grayzel, A History of the Jews, Penguin Books, 1984, p. 193.
  10. Jump up^ Nosson Dovid Rabinowich, ed. (1988). The Iggeres of Rav Sherira Gaon. Jerusalem. pp. 28–29. OCLC 20044324. html.
  11. Jump up^ Though as shown below, there is some disagreement about whether the Mishnah was originally put in writing.
  12. Jump up^ Outhwaite, Ben. "Mishnah". Cambridge Digital Library. Retrieved 16 September 2013.
  13. Jump up^ The plural term (singular tanna) for the Rabbinic sages whose views are recorded in the Mishnah; from the Aramaic root tanna(תנא) equivalent for the Hebrew root shanah (שנה), as in Mishnah.
  14. Jump up^ Abraham ben David calculated the date 189 CE. Seder Ha-Kabbalah Leharavad, Jerusalem 1971, p.16 (Hebrew)
  15. Jump up^ According to the Epistle (Iggeret) of Sherira Gaon.
  16. Jump up^ This theory was held by David Zvi Hoffman, and is repeated in the introduction to Herbert Danby's Mishnah translation.
  17. Jump up^ Shelomo Morag, The Samaritan and Yemenite Tradition of Hebrew (published in: The Traditions of Hebrew and Aramaic of the Jews of Yemen; ed. Yosef Tobi), Tel-Aviv 2001, p. 183 (note 12)
  18. Jump up^ Daat.ac.il
  19. Jump up^ Daat.ac.il Maimonides' introduction (Hebrew)
  20. Jump up^ http://www.erudit.org/revue/ttr/2009/v22/n2/044829ar.pdf
Click to expand...
I don't agree with you.
It is certain based on clear and brilliant signs that Quran was authored by G-d/ Allah.
Regards
 
leibowde84

leibowde84

Veteran Member
paarsurrey said:
It is certain based on clear and brilliant signs that Quran was authored by G-d/ Allah.
Click to expand...
That is your opinion, but it is not the consensus of the experts on the subject (ancient texts, not Islam). I've read it, and my opinion is that it seems absolutely clear that God had nothing to do with the Quran. But, I'm not an expert. And, although you probably consider yourself to be somewhat of an expert on the Quran, you are biased as you are a Muslim.

Will you at least concede that the Mishnah was written in the 3rd century?
 
The Emperor of Mankind

The Emperor of Mankind

Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
paarsurrey said:
If you mean that Quran copied from Torah, then please quote from Torah and Quran the relevant passages. For easy reference one may start quoting post by post from this thread, almost every page in this thread has 10 verses of Quran starting from post #19 to post #1155. Please give the relevant passage from Torah against every passage of Quran.
We are ears for you.
Regards
Click to expand...

Evidence in the fact the same myths are present in the Torah and Quran. Even though the details differ slightly in some cases, the characters are present in both books. Adam & Eve, Noah & his family, Abraham etc.
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
paarsurrey said: ↑
Who wrote Mishnah? What is your 100% accurate source as to who wrote it and when? Please
Regards
Tumah said:
Sorry, you're not going to get out of it that easily. We already have commentaries on the Mishnah and Talmud that pre-date Muhammad, let alone the books themselves.
Click to expand...
You did not mention who wrote Mishnah and when?
I understand one's frail position. Never-mind, no compulsion.
Regards
 
rosends

rosends

Well-Known Member
Wait, you want proof of who wrote the mishna (ignoring the names of all the people in the mishna, and the historical record of, for example Maimonides about the authors, or R. Sherira Gaon) but when it comes to the Quran, you expect people to rely on "clear and brilliant signs that Quran was authored by G-d/ Allah."

Nope.
 
Tumah

Tumah

Veteran Member
paarsurrey said:
paarsurrey said: ↑
Who wrote Mishnah? What is your 100% accurate source as to who wrote it and when? Please
Regards

You did not mention who wrote Mishnah and when?
I understand one's frail position. Never-mind, no compulsion.
Regards
Click to expand...
Mishnah
Can we stop with the procrastinating and get back to the topic now?
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
rosends said:
Wait, you want proof of who wrote the mishna (ignoring the names of all the people in the mishna, and the historical record of, for example Maimonides about the authors, or R. Sherira Gaon) but when it comes to the Quran, you expect people to rely on "clear and brilliant signs that Quran was authored by G-d/ Allah."
Nope.
Click to expand...
I never restricted one to give such clear and brilliant signs about Mishna. Did I? Please go ahead, if one has any. Will one? Please
One is most welcome

Regards
 
Shad

Shad

Veteran Member
paarsurrey said:
I never restricted one to give such clear and brilliant signs about Mishna. Did I? Please go ahead, if one has any. Will one? Please
One is most welcome

Regards
Click to expand...

The clear and brilliant signs are based on a series of citations, inferences and other works people already mentioned also known as evidence. You reject an uncontroversial historical view and evidence since it conflicts with your religious view, nothing more.
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Shad said:
The clear and brilliant signs are based on a series of citations, inferences and other works people already mentioned also known as evidence. You reject an uncontroversial historical view and evidence since it conflicts with your religious view, nothing more.
Click to expand...
Please mention it.
Regards
 
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