Shad
Veteran Member
Read the thread again, this time pay attention to what people have posted.
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Is Quran copied from Jewish Bible/Torah? : Quran did not copy from Jewish Bible/Torah
- Thread starter paarsurrey
- Start date
Read the thread again, this time pay attention to what people have posted.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
I find no "uncontroversial historical" view and evidence.
Regards
Regards
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Is Quran copied from Jewish Bible/Torah? : Quran did not copy from Jewish Bible/Torah
The Holy Quran : Chapter 70: Al-Ma`arij [3]
[70:21]When evil touches him, he is full of lamentation,
[70:22]But when good falls to hislot, he is niggardly.
[70:23]But not those who pray.
[70:24]Those who are constant in their Prayer,
[70:25]And those in whose wealth there is a recognized right
[70:26]For one who asks for help and for one who does not.
[70:27]And those who believe the Day of Judgment to be a reality,
[70:28]And those who are fearful of the punishment of their Lord —
[70:29]Verily the punishment of their Lord is not a thing to feel secure from —
[70:30]And those who guard their private parts —
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=70&verse=21
Please prove that the above verses have been copied/plagiarized/adapted from Jewish Bible/Torah or any other religious revealed scripture in the world by quoting from that book, the reference and providing the link.
Just impossible to do it.
Quran is authored by G-d, it is the reality.
In terms of the notion "Koran dated to before Muhamad birth."and some of the pseudo scholars also , link provided by the poster, saying this. Since Muhammad could not have plagiarized Quran from the old scriptures before his own birth, it must be thrashed out by the said pseudo-scholars, pseudo-history and the pseudo-science all together evidencing on top-priority as to from which old scriptures Muhammad recited the above verses verbatim.
Regards
The Holy Quran : Chapter 70: Al-Ma`arij [3]
[70:21]When evil touches him, he is full of lamentation,
[70:22]But when good falls to hislot, he is niggardly.
[70:23]But not those who pray.
[70:24]Those who are constant in their Prayer,
[70:25]And those in whose wealth there is a recognized right
[70:26]For one who asks for help and for one who does not.
[70:27]And those who believe the Day of Judgment to be a reality,
[70:28]And those who are fearful of the punishment of their Lord —
[70:29]Verily the punishment of their Lord is not a thing to feel secure from —
[70:30]And those who guard their private parts —
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=70&verse=21
Please prove that the above verses have been copied/plagiarized/adapted from Jewish Bible/Torah or any other religious revealed scripture in the world by quoting from that book, the reference and providing the link.
Just impossible to do it.
Quran is authored by G-d, it is the reality.
In terms of the notion "Koran dated to before Muhamad birth."and some of the pseudo scholars also , link provided by the poster, saying this. Since Muhammad could not have plagiarized Quran from the old scriptures before his own birth, it must be thrashed out by the said pseudo-scholars, pseudo-history and the pseudo-science all together evidencing on top-priority as to from which old scriptures Muhammad recited the above verses verbatim.
Regards
rosends
Well-Known Member
that's OK, I have yet to see any clear or brilliant signs.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
That's OK with me also.
Regards
Shad
Veteran Member
The dating of the Talmud is not controversial. Besides history does not provide the absolutes you want. So either you follow historical methods and it's standards or you admit you hold expectation beyond reason in context.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
That is why we don't depend on history, it only covers the events partially and most of the times fails to bring out the truth.
Regards
Shad
Veteran Member
If you want to ignore history that is fine. Although doing so does nothing to help you since you also must ignore all your posts about the spread of Islam since those rely on history as well. However you will just cherry pick and use double standards since you defend a religious ideology, nothing more. Anything that contradicts your ideology is dismissed even when it is within one of your own sources referenced. You only position is one of faith that fails when faces with historical records.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Does History claim to record all the events happened in the past in the world since inception or just happening now? It does not, and cannot.
So, in relative terms to Revelation, which is 100% correct, the history cannot and must not be trusted. As to purpose of thing , it (history) has no sources to ascertain and hence is most untrustworthy.
Regards
Shad
Veteran Member
Which is still irrelevant that history shows that the Talmud was created before the Quran. You are arguing that the evidence in support is completely wrong solely based on your religious ideology. You believe something contrary to the evidence we have thus are irrational.
Religious presupposition which only you and your co-religionist believe in. Here is your flawed argument right back at you. It was reveled to me that your beliefs are wrong. You shouldn't believe in your religion since my current revelation shows your past one wrong. As I said you argue a religious presupposition which has no evidence at all thus your argument is not just moot but nonsense. Anyone can do it, no one has yet to prove their god-speak is right.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Is Quran copied from Jewish Bible/Torah? : Quran did not copy from Jewish Bible/Torah
The Holy Quran : Chapter 70: Al-Ma`arij [4]
[70:31]Except from their wives andfromthose whom their right hands possess; such indeed are not to blame;
[70:32]But those who seek to go beyond that, it is these who are transgressors —
70:33]And those who are watchful of their trusts and their covenants,
[70:34]And those who are upright in their testimonies,
[70:35]And those who are strict in the observance of their Prayer.
[70:36]These will be in the Gardens, duly honoured.
[70:37]But what is the matter with those who disbelieve, that they come hastening towards thee,
[70:38]From the right hand and from the left, in different parties?
[70:39]Does every man among them hope to enter the Garden of Bliss?
[70:40]Never! We have created them of that which they know.
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=70&verse=31
Please prove that the above verses have been copied/plagiarized/adapted from Jewish Bible/Torah or any other religious revealed scripture in the world by quoting from that book, the reference and providing the link.
Just impossible to do it.
Quran is authored by G-d, it is the reality.
In terms of the notion "Koran dated to before Muhamad birth."and some of the pseudo scholars also , link provided by the poster, saying this. Since Muhammad could not have plagiarized Quran from the old scriptures before his own birth, it must be thrashed out by the said pseudo-scholars, pseudo-history and the pseudo-science all together evidencing on top-priority as to from which old scriptures Muhammad recited the above verses verbatim.
Regards
The Holy Quran : Chapter 70: Al-Ma`arij [4]
[70:31]Except from their wives andfromthose whom their right hands possess; such indeed are not to blame;
[70:32]But those who seek to go beyond that, it is these who are transgressors —
70:33]And those who are watchful of their trusts and their covenants,
[70:34]And those who are upright in their testimonies,
[70:35]And those who are strict in the observance of their Prayer.
[70:36]These will be in the Gardens, duly honoured.
[70:37]But what is the matter with those who disbelieve, that they come hastening towards thee,
[70:38]From the right hand and from the left, in different parties?
[70:39]Does every man among them hope to enter the Garden of Bliss?
[70:40]Never! We have created them of that which they know.
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=70&verse=31
Please prove that the above verses have been copied/plagiarized/adapted from Jewish Bible/Torah or any other religious revealed scripture in the world by quoting from that book, the reference and providing the link.
Just impossible to do it.
Quran is authored by G-d, it is the reality.
In terms of the notion "Koran dated to before Muhamad birth."and some of the pseudo scholars also , link provided by the poster, saying this. Since Muhammad could not have plagiarized Quran from the old scriptures before his own birth, it must be thrashed out by the said pseudo-scholars, pseudo-history and the pseudo-science all together evidencing on top-priority as to from which old scriptures Muhammad recited the above verses verbatim.
Regards
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Did one read the following?:
The first complete edition of the Babylonian Talmud was printed in Venice by Daniel Bomberg 1520–23. In addition to the Mishnah and Gemara, Bomberg's edition contained the commentaries of Rashi and Tosafot. Almost all printings since Bomberg have followed the same pagination. Bomberg's edition was considered relatively free of censorship.[16]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talmud
So, one's contention is wrong. Pleasehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talmud
Regards
gnostic
The Lost One
You are not reading the whole wiki article. Read the whole article because you are cherry picking what you are quoting.
The Talmud began a couple of centuries before Muhammad was born. And they were hand written, because the technology for printing did exist until the late 15th century.
The printing of the Talmud in the 16th century is when began transmitting the Talmud from writing form to printing form.
You are either being terribly dishonest with your selective quoting, or you have made a mistake.
Shad
Veteran Member
You reference is about a compilation only. You do not understand what you posted. You also ignore the rest of your link which states when it was created. You also ignore the links with your own. Your own reference refutes your argument. You didn't read what you linked, again.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_Torah#Codification
"
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
My point is that Muhammad did not have a ready access to talmud.
Regards
Regards
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
What is funny about it? Please
Regards
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Nobody comes forward to prove with evidence that Quran verses [70:31] to [70:40] were copied from Jewish Bible/Torah or another revealed scripture. Did somebody? Please
Regards
Regards
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Is Quran copied from Jewish Bible/Torah? : Quran did not copy from Jewish Bible/Torah
The Holy Quran : Chapter 70: Al-Ma`arij [5]
[70:41]But nay! I swear by the Lord of the easts and of the wests, that We have the power
[70:42]To bring in their place others better than they, and We cannot be frustratedin Our plans.
[70:43]So leave them alone to indulge in idle talk and play until they meet that day of theirs which they are promised,
[70:44]The day when they will come forth from their graves hastening, as though they were racing to a target,
[70:45]Withtheir eyes cast down; and disgrace will cover them. Such is the day which they are promised.
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?submitCh=Read+from+verse%3A&ch=70&verse=41
Please prove that the above verses have been copied/plagiarized/adapted from Jewish Bible/Torah or any other religious revealed scripture in the world by quoting from that book, the reference and providing the link.
Just impossible to do it.
Quran is authored by G-d, it is the reality.
In terms of the notion "Koran dated to before Muhamad birth."and some of the pseudo scholars also , link provided by the poster, saying this. Since Muhammad could not have plagiarized Quran from the old scriptures before his own birth, it must be thrashed out by the said pseudo-scholars, pseudo-history and the pseudo-science all together evidencing on top-priority as to from which old scriptures Muhammad recited the above verses verbatim.
Regards
The Holy Quran : Chapter 70: Al-Ma`arij [5]
[70:41]But nay! I swear by the Lord of the easts and of the wests, that We have the power
[70:42]To bring in their place others better than they, and We cannot be frustratedin Our plans.
[70:43]So leave them alone to indulge in idle talk and play until they meet that day of theirs which they are promised,
[70:44]The day when they will come forth from their graves hastening, as though they were racing to a target,
[70:45]Withtheir eyes cast down; and disgrace will cover them. Such is the day which they are promised.
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?submitCh=Read+from+verse%3A&ch=70&verse=41
Please prove that the above verses have been copied/plagiarized/adapted from Jewish Bible/Torah or any other religious revealed scripture in the world by quoting from that book, the reference and providing the link.
Just impossible to do it.
Quran is authored by G-d, it is the reality.
In terms of the notion "Koran dated to before Muhamad birth."and some of the pseudo scholars also , link provided by the poster, saying this. Since Muhammad could not have plagiarized Quran from the old scriptures before his own birth, it must be thrashed out by the said pseudo-scholars, pseudo-history and the pseudo-science all together evidencing on top-priority as to from which old scriptures Muhammad recited the above verses verbatim.
Regards
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Is Quran copied from Jewish Bible/Torah? : Quran did not copy from Jewish Bible/Torah
I have so far quoted following 47 full chapters from Quran in these threads:[Summary]
70. Al-Ma`arij, 71. Nooh 72. Al-Jinn,73. Al-Muzzammil,74. Al-Muddaththir 75.Al-Qiyamah,76.Al-Dahr,77.Al-Mursalat,78.Al-Naba'79. Al-Nazi`at,80. `Abasa,81. Al-Takwir,82. Al-Infitar, 83. Al-Tatfif,84. Al-Inshiqaq,85. Al-Buruj,86. Al-Tariq,87. Al-A`la,88. Al-Ghashiyah,89. Al-Fajr,90. Al-Balad,91. Al-Shams,92. Al-Lail,93. Al-Duha,94. Al-Inshirah,95. Al-Tin,96. Al-`Alaq,97. Al-Qadr,98. Al-Bayyinah,99. Al-Zilzal,100. Al-`Adiyat,101. Al-Qari`ah,102. Al-Takathur,103. Al-`Asr,104. Al-Humazah,105. Al-Fil,106. Al-Quraish,107. Al-Ma`un,108. Al-Kauthar,109. Al-Kafirun,110. Al-Nasr,111. Al-Lahab,112. Al-Ikhlas,113. Al-Falaq,114. Al-Nas,1. Al-Fatihah.3.Aal-e-`Imran,14. Ibrahim.]
Our Jewish (or non-Jewish) friends have not been able to quote or reference places of Torah where verses of these forty seven Quranic chapters have been copied/plagiarized/adapted from.
There being 114 Surahs/chapters in Quran. Number-wise this makes more than 1/3 of Quran.
In terms of the notion "Koran dated to before Muhamad birth. " and some of the pseudo scholars also , link also provided by the poster, saying this; since Muhammad could not have plagiarized Quran from the old scriptures before his own birth, it must be thrashed out by the said pseudo-scholars, pseudo-history and the pseudo-science all together evidencing on top-priority as to from which old scriptures Muhammad recited the above verses verbatim.
We can therefore conclude with 100% certainty that 0% of verses of these chapters of Quran have been copied/plagiarized/adapted from Torah or any other scripture.
Quran is, therefore, the Word Revealed from G-d and authored by Him and is original.
Regards
I have so far quoted following 47 full chapters from Quran in these threads:[Summary]
70. Al-Ma`arij, 71. Nooh 72. Al-Jinn,73. Al-Muzzammil,74. Al-Muddaththir 75.Al-Qiyamah,76.Al-Dahr,77.Al-Mursalat,78.Al-Naba'79. Al-Nazi`at,80. `Abasa,81. Al-Takwir,82. Al-Infitar, 83. Al-Tatfif,84. Al-Inshiqaq,85. Al-Buruj,86. Al-Tariq,87. Al-A`la,88. Al-Ghashiyah,89. Al-Fajr,90. Al-Balad,91. Al-Shams,92. Al-Lail,93. Al-Duha,94. Al-Inshirah,95. Al-Tin,96. Al-`Alaq,97. Al-Qadr,98. Al-Bayyinah,99. Al-Zilzal,100. Al-`Adiyat,101. Al-Qari`ah,102. Al-Takathur,103. Al-`Asr,104. Al-Humazah,105. Al-Fil,106. Al-Quraish,107. Al-Ma`un,108. Al-Kauthar,109. Al-Kafirun,110. Al-Nasr,111. Al-Lahab,112. Al-Ikhlas,113. Al-Falaq,114. Al-Nas,1. Al-Fatihah.3.Aal-e-`Imran,14. Ibrahim.]
Our Jewish (or non-Jewish) friends have not been able to quote or reference places of Torah where verses of these forty seven Quranic chapters have been copied/plagiarized/adapted from.
There being 114 Surahs/chapters in Quran. Number-wise this makes more than 1/3 of Quran.
In terms of the notion "Koran dated to before Muhamad birth. " and some of the pseudo scholars also , link also provided by the poster, saying this; since Muhammad could not have plagiarized Quran from the old scriptures before his own birth, it must be thrashed out by the said pseudo-scholars, pseudo-history and the pseudo-science all together evidencing on top-priority as to from which old scriptures Muhammad recited the above verses verbatim.
We can therefore conclude with 100% certainty that 0% of verses of these chapters of Quran have been copied/plagiarized/adapted from Torah or any other scripture.
Quran is, therefore, the Word Revealed from G-d and authored by Him and is original.
Regards