Is Quran copied from Jewish Bible/Torah? : Quran did not copy from Jewish Bible/Torah

[paarsurrey]

Two years ago I posted a response to paarsurrey.
Last year I posted most of it again. Now another year has passed and what I said twice before remains just as true. The essence of which is -
"Your refusal to answer... questions... only serves to illustrate that you don't know what you're talking about......
Hiding behind a Uriah Heep facade is not going to work any more. You've said too much."

Very respected and a member of norm.
Please prove, if one can, that the verses mentioned in post #1738
are copied from Torah, no compulsion however whatsoever. Nobody from Judaism could prove that since Mar 18, 2016.
Anybody else.
Regards

 

[rosends]

You know the mysteries of the universe
As well as the hiddenmost secrets of each being that lives.
You seek out all our innermost chambers
Testing our hearts and our innards.
Nothing is hidden from You;
No secret is kept from your sight.

compare with

And whether you conceal what you say or make it public, He knows full well what is in your breasts.
Does He Who has created you not know it? He is the Knower of all subtleties, the All-Aware.
-----------
It is very hard to prove "copying" when:
a. you don't have the two texts in identical languages
b. you can't prove intent
c. you don't have a computer program which can compare every word for something so clearly plagiarized

but it is very easy to make the case for "inspired directly by" and point out repeated themes, motifs, figures of speech, concepts etc. And as a teacher, if I saw such paraphrasing and borrowing of ideas in order, I would certainly hold the student responsible for intellectual theft.

 

[Aštra’el]

Copied... no. Inspired by? Yes. Just as the New Testament was inspired by the Torah/ Tanakh.

 

[paarsurrey]

Is Quran copied from Jewish Bible/Torah? : Quran did not copy from Jewish Bible/Torah

The Holy Quran : Chapter 56: Al-Waqi`ah الواقِعَة
[9]

[56:91] And if he be of those who are on the right hand,
[56:92] Then ‘Peace be on thee, who is from those on the right hand.’
[56:93] But if he be of those who reject the truth and are in error,
[56:94] Then for him will be an entertainment of boiling water,
[56:95] And burning in Hell.
[56:96] Verily, this is the certain truth.
[56:97] So glorify the name of thy Lord, the Great.

http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=56&verse=91

Please prove that the above verses have been copied/plagiarized/adapted from Jewish Bible/Torah or any other religious revealed scripture in the world by quoting from that book, the reference and providing the link.
Just impossible to do it.
Quran is authored by G-d, it is the reality.

In terms of the notion "Koran dated to before Muhamad birth."and some of the pseudo scholars also , link provided by the poster, saying this. Since Muhammad could not have plagiarized Quran from the old scriptures before his own birth, it must be thrashed out by the said pseudo-scholars, pseudo-history and the pseudo-science all together evidencing on top-priority as to from which old scriptures Muhammad recited the above verses verbatim.

Peaceful and reasonable dialogue is welcome, even if one differs with me.

Regards

 

[1robin]

Your comments please

Regards

Our comments concerning what? I expected to find a statement to evaluate. Where is it?

 

[paarsurrey]

Is Quran copied from Jewish Bible/Torah? : Quran did not copy from Jewish Bible/Torah

I have so far quoted following 54 full chapters from Quran in these threads:[Summary]

56. Al-Waqi`ah 57. Al-Hadid 58. Al-Mujaadilah 59. Al-Hashr60. Al-Mumtahanah

61. Al-Saff
62. Al-Jumu`ah 63. Al-Munafiqun 64. Al-Taghabun 65. Al-Talaq 66. Al-Tahrim 67. Al-Mulk 68. Al-Qalam 69. Al-Haqqah 70. Al-Ma`arij 71. Nooh 72. Al-Jinn 73. Al-Muzzammil 74. Al-Muddaththir 75. Al-Qiyamah 76. Al-Dahr 77. Al-Mursalat 78. Al-Naba' 79. Al-Nazi`at 80. `Abasa 81. Al-Takwir 82. Al-Infitar 83. Al-Tatfif 84. Al-Inshiqaq 85. Al-Buruj 86. Al-Tariq 87. Al-A`la 88. Al-Ghashiyah 89. Al-Fajr 90. Al-Balad

91. Al-Shams 92. Al-Lail 93.Al-Duha 94. Al-Inshirah 95. Al-Tin 96. Al-`Alaq 97. Al-Qadr 98. Al-Bayyinah 99. Al-Zilzal 100. Al-`Adiyat 101. Al-Qari`ah 102. Al-Takathur 103. Al-`Asr 104. Al-Humazah 105. Al-Fil 106.Al-Quraish 107. Al-Ma`un 108. Al-Kauthar 109. Al-Kafirun 110. Al-Nasr 111. Al-Lahab 112. Al-Ikhlas 113. Al-Falaq 114. Al-Nas 1. Al-Fatihah. 3. Aal-e-`Imran 14. Ibrahim

Our Jewish (or non-Jewish) friends have not been able to quote or reference places of Torah where verses of these sixty one Quranic chapters have been copied/plagiarized/adapted from.

There being 114 Surahs/chapters in Quran. Chapter-number-wise this makes more than 1/2 of Quran.

In terms of the notion "Koran dated to before Muhamad birth. " and some of the pseudo scholars also , link also provided by the poster, saying this; since Muhammad could not have plagiarized Quran from the old scriptures before his own birth, it must be thrashed out by the said pseudo-scholars, pseudo-history and the pseudo-science all together evidencing on top-priority as to from which old scriptures Muhammad recited the above verses verbatim.

We can therefore conclude with 100% certainty that 0% of verses of these chapters of Quran have been copied/plagiarized/adapted from Torah or any other scripture.
Quran is, therefore, the Word Revealed from G-d and authored by Him and is original.

Regards
#1480

 

[paarsurrey]

Copied... no. Inspired by? Yes. Just as the New Testament was inspired by the Torah/ Tanakh.

Quran is authored by G-d not by Muhammad, NT is not even authored by Jesus not to speak of G-d, OT is also neither authored by G-d nor by Moses. Please
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Is Quran copied from Jewish Bible/Torah? : Quran did not copy from Jewish Bible/Torah


The Holy Quran : Chapter 55: Al-Rahman الرَّحمٰن
[1]
[55:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[55:2] It is God, the Gracious
[55:3] Who has taught the Qur’an.
[55:4] He has created man.
[55:5] He has taught him plain speech.
[55:6] The sun and the moon run their courses according to a fixed reckoning.
[55:7] And the stemless plants and the trees humbly submit to His will.
[55:8] And the heaven He has raised high and set up a measure,
[55:9] That you may not transgress the measure.
[55:10] So weigh all things in justice and fall not short of the measure.

http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=55

Please prove that the above verses have been copied/plagiarized/adapted from Jewish Bible/Torah or any other religious revealed scripture in the world by quoting from that book, the reference and providing the link.
Just impossible to do it.
Quran is authored by G-d, it is the reality.

In terms of the notion "Koran dated to before Muhamad birth."and some of the pseudo scholars also , link provided by the poster, saying this. Since Muhammad could not have plagiarized Quran from the old scriptures before his own birth, it must be thrashed out by the said pseudo-scholars, pseudo-history and the pseudo-science all together evidencing on top-priority as to from which old scriptures Muhammad recited the above verses verbatim.

Peaceful and reasonable dialogue is welcome, even if one differs with me.

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Our comments concerning what? I expected to find a statement to evaluate. Where is it?

One is to prove if "Is Quran copied from Jewish Bible/Torah?" or to confirm that "Quran did not copy from Jewish Bible/Torah" or any other scripture. Please
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Our comments concerning what? I expected to find a statement to evaluate. Where is it?

One is to prove if "Is Quran copied from Jewish Bible/Torah?" or to confirm that "Quran did not copy from Jewish Bible/Torah" or any other scripture. Please

Is Quran copied from Jewish Bible/Torah? : Quran did not copy from Jewish Bible/Torah

The Holy Quran : Chapter 55: Al-Rahman الرَّحمٰن
[2]

[55:11] And He has set the earth for His creatures;
[55:12] Therein are all kinds of fruit and palm-trees with sheaths,
[55:13] And grain with its husk and fragrant plants.
[55:14] Which, then, of the favours of your Lord will you twain deny, O men and Jinn?
[55:15] He created man from dry ringing clay which is like baked pottery.
[55:16] And the Jinn He created from the flame of fire.
[55:17] Which, then, of the favours of your Lord will you twain deny?
[55:18] The Lord of the two Easts and the Lord of the two Wests!
[55:19] Which, then, of the favours of your Lord will you twain deny?
[55:20] He has made the two bodies of water flow. They will one day meet.

http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=55&verse=11

Please prove that the above verses have been copied/plagiarized/adapted from Jewish Bible/Torah or any other religious revealed scripture in the world by quoting from that book, the reference and providing the link.
Just impossible to do it.
Quran is authored by G-d, it is the reality.

In terms of the notion "Koran dated to before Muhamad birth."and some of the pseudo scholars also , link provided by the poster, saying this. Since Muhammad could not have plagiarized Quran from the old scriptures before his own birth, it must be thrashed out by the said pseudo-scholars, pseudo-history and the pseudo-science all together evidencing on top-priority as to from which old scriptures Muhammad recited the above verses verbatim.

Peaceful and reasonable dialogue is welcome, even if one differs with me.

Regards

 

[1robin]

Is Quran copied from Jewish Bible/Torah? : Quran did not copy from Jewish Bible/Torah

The Holy Quran : Chapter 55: Al-Rahman الرَّحمٰن
[2]

[55:11] And He has set the earth for His creatures;
[55:12] Therein are all kinds of fruit and palm-trees with sheaths,
[55:13] And grain with its husk and fragrant plants.
[55:14] Which, then, of the favours of your Lord will you twain deny, O men and Jinn?
[55:15] He created man from dry ringing clay which is like baked pottery.
[55:16] And the Jinn He created from the flame of fire.
[55:17] Which, then, of the favours of your Lord will you twain deny?
[55:18] The Lord of the two Easts and the Lord of the two Wests!
[55:19] Which, then, of the favours of your Lord will you twain deny?
[55:20] He has made the two bodies of water flow. They will one day meet.

http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=55&verse=11

Please prove that the above verses have been copied/plagiarized/adapted from Jewish Bible/Torah or any other religious revealed scripture in the world by quoting from that book, the reference and providing the link.
Just impossible to do it.
Quran is authored by G-d, it is the reality.

In terms of the notion "Koran dated to before Muhamad birth."and some of the pseudo scholars also , link provided by the poster, saying this. Since Muhammad could not have plagiarized Quran from the old scriptures before his own birth, it must be thrashed out by the said pseudo-scholars, pseudo-history and the pseudo-science all together evidencing on top-priority as to from which old scriptures Muhammad recited the above verses verbatim.

Peaceful and reasonable dialogue is welcome, even if one differs with me.

Regards

I am still confused here. I did not claim that your provided verses were copied from the bible. Heck I gave no specific verses that were plagiarized and the Christian position is not that the Quran plagiarized any verse you can post. You must allow me to provide the verses that were plagiarized. I will start with the infancy heretical Gospel of Mary and it's claims about the baby Jesus speaking and making clay birds fly that appears in the Quran and also claim that the Quran plagiarized verses from all manner of additional gnostic and heretical texts popular during Muhammad's claims. He plagiarized few verses correctly from the bible. This is because he got almost all biblical verse all mixed up that he attempted to plagiarize. He was so pathetic that he tried to denounce the trinity and Got it wrong and claimed that it merely appeared to them that Christ was slain but he actually wasn't and therefore Allah is responsible for beginning the Christian religion and he did not correct anyone for 500 years and only then used someone that had no idea what had happened 500 years before when those events took place, to do so.

My claims are kind of generalized here but I did not want to spend significant time giving a catalogue of plagiarized texts in the Quran before I can conclude the time will not be wasted by examining your responses to what I can remember without research. Good luck rescuing the massively fault ridden Quran from it's inability to accurately record heretical scripture and the plagiarizing of countless prior sources. I can even describe why those texts were copied or messed up in the Quran from texts popular in Arabia during Muhammad's life span but await your response first.

 

[paarsurrey]

I am still confused here. I did not claim that your provided verses were copied from the bible. Heck I gave no specific verses that were plagiarized and the Christian position is not that the Quran plagiarized any verse you can post. You must allow me to provide the verses that were plagiarized. I will start with the infancy heretical Gospel of Mary and it's claims about the baby Jesus speaking and making clay birds fly that appears in the Quran and also claim that the Quran plagiarized verses from all manner of additional gnostic and heretical texts popular during Muhammad's claims. He plagiarized few verses correctly from the bible. This is because he got almost all biblical verse all mixed up that he attempted to plagiarize. He was so pathetic that he tried to denounce the trinity and Got it wrong and claimed that it merely appeared to them that Christ was slain but he actually wasn't and therefore Allah is responsible for beginning the Christian religion and he did not correct anyone for 500 years and only then used someone that had no idea what had happened 500 years before when those events took place, to do so.

My claims are kind of generalized here but I did not want to spend significant time giving a catalogue of plagiarized texts in the Quran before I can conclude the time will not be wasted by examining your responses to what I can remember without research. Good luck rescuing the massively fault ridden Quran from it's inability to accurately record heretical scripture and the plagiarizing of countless prior sources. I can even describe why those texts were copied or messed up in the Quran from texts popular in Arabia during Muhammad's life span but await your response first.

Do you believe Gospel of Mary to be a Christian book revealed on Jesus? If not, why not? Please
Regards

 

[1robin]

Do you believe Gospel of Mary to be a Christian book revealed on Jesus? If not, why not? Please
Regards

I certainly do not. However I believe it is a heretical gnostic text which everyone except Islam has rejected. The Quran however is perfectly happy to plagiarize from this rejected source as if it was divinely revealed in spite of no one else believing so and this is just a single virtually unanimously rejected text among dozens the Quran plagiarized.

 

[paarsurrey]

http://www.religiousforums.com/#

Is Quran copied from Jewish Bible/Torah? : Quran did not copy from Jewish Bible/Torah

The Holy Quran : Chapter 55: Al-Rahman الرَّحمٰن
[3]

[55:21] Between them is now a barrier; they encroach not one upon the other.
[55:22] Which, then, of the favours of your Lord will you twain deny?
[55:23] There come out from them pearls and coral.
[55:24] Which, then, of the favours of your Lord will you twain deny?
[55:25] And His are the lofty ships reared aloft on the sea like mountains.
[55:26] Which, then, of the favours of your Lord will you twain deny?
[55:27] All that is on it (earth) will pass away.
[55:28] And there will remain only the Person of thy Lord, Master of Glory and Honour.
[55:29] Which, then, of the favours of your Lord will you twain deny?
[55:30] Of Him do beg all that are in the heavens and the earth. Every day He reveals Himself in a different state.

http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=55&verse=21

Please prove that the above verses have been copied/plagiarized/adapted from Jewish Bible/Torah or any other religious revealed scripture in the world by quoting from that book, the reference and providing the link.
Just impossible to do it.
Quran is authored by G-d, it is the reality.

In terms of the notion "Koran dated to before Muhamad birth."and some of the pseudo scholars also , link provided by the poster, saying this. Since Muhammad could not have plagiarized Quran from the old scriptures before his own birth, it must be thrashed out by the said pseudo-scholars, pseudo-history and the pseudo-science all together evidencing on top-priority as to from which old scriptures Muhammad recited the above verses verbatim.

Peaceful and reasonable dialogue is welcome, even if one differs with me.

Regards

Our comments concerning what? I expected to find a statement to evaluate. Where is it?

One is to prove if "Is Quran copied from Jewish Bible/Torah?" or to confirm that "Quran did not copy from Jewish Bible/Torah" or any other scripture. Please

 

[paarsurrey]

Is Quran copied from Jewish Bible/Torah? : Quran did not copy from Jewish Bible/Torah

Nobody could prove that verse [67:1]I to [67:10]of The Holy Quran : Chapter 66: Al-Tahrim on page 70 posted on Mar 16, 2016 #1390 have been copied/plagiarized/adapted from Jewish Bible/Torah or any other religious revealed scripture in the world by quoting from that book, giving a reference and providing the link.
Just impossible to do it.
It is one aspect of the fact that Quran is authored by G-d .
Muhammad did not claim that he authored the Recitation/Quran.
G-d claimed its authorship and guaranteed its security all through the ages.
Right?
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

I certainly do not. However I believe it is a heretical gnostic text which everyone except Islam has rejected. The Quran however is perfectly happy to plagiarize from this rejected source as if it was divinely revealed in spite of no one else believing so and this is just a single virtually unanimously rejected text among dozens the Quran plagiarized.

It is just your thinking.
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

@1robin said: ↑
Our comments concerning what? I expected to find a statement to evaluate. Where is it?

paarsurrey said: ↑
One is to prove if "Is Quran copied from Jewish Bible/Torah?" or to confirm that "Quran did not copy from Jewish Bible/Torah" or any other scripture.

Is Quran copied from Jewish Bible/Torah? : Quran did not copy from Jewish Bible/Torah

The Holy Quran : Chapter 55: Al-Rahman الرَّحمٰن
[4]

[55:31] Which, then, of the favours of your Lord will you twain deny?
[55:32] Soon shall We attend to you, O ye two big groups!
[55:33] Which, then, of the favours of your Lord will you twain deny?
[55:34] O company of Jinn and men! if you have power to go beyond the confines of the heavens and the earth, then do go. But you cannot go save with authority.
[55:35] Which, then, of the favours of your Lord will you twain deny?
[55:36] There shall be sent against you a flame of fire, and smoke; and you shall not be able to help yourselves.
[55:37] Which, then, of the favours of your Lord will you twain deny?
[55:38] And when the heaven is rent asunder, and becomes red like red hide —
[55:39] Which, then, of the favours of your Lord will you twain deny? —
[55:40] On that day neither man nor Jinn will be asked about his sin.
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=55&verse=31

Please prove that the above verses have been copied/plagiarized/adapted from Jewish Bible/Torah or any other religious revealed scripture in the world by quoting from that book, the reference and providing the link.
Just impossible to do it.
Quran is authored by G-d, it is the reality.

In terms of the notion "Koran dated to before Muhamad birth."and some of the pseudo scholars also , link provided by the poster, saying this. Since Muhammad could not have plagiarized Quran from the old scriptures before his own birth, it must be thrashed out by the said pseudo-scholars, pseudo-history and the pseudo-science all together evidencing on top-priority as to from which old scriptures Muhammad recited the above verses verbatim.

Peaceful and reasonable dialogue is welcome, even if one differs with me.

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

@1robin said: ↑
Our comments concerning what? I expected to find a statement to evaluate. Where is it?

paarsurrey said: ↑
One is to prove if "Is Quran copied from Jewish Bible/Torah?" or to confirm that "Quran did not copy from Jewish Bible/Torah" or any other scripture.

Is Quran copied from Jewish Bible/Torah? : Quran did not copy from Jewish Bible/Torah

The Holy Quran : Chapter 55: Al-Rahman الرَّحمٰن
[5]

[55:41] Which, then, of the favours of your Lord will you twain deny?
[55:42] The guilty will be known by their marks, and they will be seized by the forelocks and the feet.
[55:43] Which, then, of the favours of your Lord will you twain deny?
[55:44] This is the Hell which the guilty deny,
[55:45] Between it and fierce boiling water will they go round.
[55:46] Which, then, of the favours of your Lord will you twain deny?
[55:47] But for him who fears to stand before his Lord there are two Gardens —
[55:48] Which, then, of the favours of your Lord will you twain deny? —
[55:49] Having many varieties of trees.
[55:50] Which, then, of the favours of your Lord will you twain deny?

http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=55&verse=41

Please prove that the above verses have been copied/plagiarized/adapted from Jewish Bible/Torah or any other religious revealed scripture in the world by quoting from that book, the reference and providing the link.
Just impossible to do it.
Quran is authored by G-d, it is the reality.

In terms of the notion "Koran dated to before Muhamad birth."and some of the pseudo scholars also , link provided by the poster, saying this. Since Muhammad could not have plagiarized Quran from the old scriptures before his own birth, it must be thrashed out by the said pseudo-scholars, pseudo-history and the pseudo-science all together evidencing on top-priority as to from which old scriptures Muhammad recited the above verses verbatim.

Peaceful and reasonable dialogue is welcome, even if one differs with me.

Regards

 

[loverofhumanity]

The Baha'i view is that the Quran is a completely separate Revelation

 

[paarsurrey]

Is Quran copied from Jewish Bible/Torah? : Quran did not copy from Jewish Bible/Torah

Nobody could prove that verse [68:51] to [68:53] of The Holy Quran : Chapter 68: Al-Qalam on page 69 posted on Mar 15, 2016#1376 have been copied/plagiarized/adapted from Jewish Bible/Torah or any other religious revealed scripture in the world by quoting from that book, giving a reference and providing the link.
Just impossible to do it.
It is one aspect of the fact that Quran is authored by G-d .
Muhammad did not claim that he authored the Recitation/Quran.
G-d claimed its authorship and guaranteed its security all through the ages.
Right?
Regards