Is Rape justified in a marriage?

[zenzero]

Friend Miss Alice,

Is Rape justified in a marriage?
Ok well before anyone says it isn't, I was arguing with some people who in their religious belief believe that there is no such thing as rape in a marriage. In other words, if a woman decides to marry she must give up some of her "rights" and please her man. One woman told me that a man has needs and the purpose of a woman is to please those needs.

I know this sounds crazy but I was asked why it's rape and why it isn't justified in my point of view. Well for one, I don't think it's fair to the woman. I was raised in a society where men and women are equal in a relationship. However I'm not married, I was wondering what anyone else's point of view is when sex is forced upon a woman who is married to her husband.

Why do you think marriages are known to be conducted in places of worship????
A individual human is a complex form of body-soul and harmonizing it [this energy form] is what religion is all about.
Towards that times comes when sexual energy of one requires release.
Since most do not know other means of releasing the sexual energy except sex rape happens. Understanding that Rape is a process through which very little of harmonizing happens and so an understanding wife is a great help in slowly turning around this energy towards the sublime and so a partner becomes truly a soul mate when the energies of both act in harmony.
The word *INTERCOURSE* means 1. between or among 2. together, mutually, or reciprocally interdependent interchange.
Here if the wife is not part of that *mutual* part then any sexual act by the husband will always be termed as *RAPE*.

Love & rgds

 

[Mr Spinkles]

Hooray! Everyone on RF agrees on something.

 

[TashaN]

Ok well before anyone says it isn't, I was arguing with some people who in their religious belief believe that there is no such thing as rape in a marriage. In other words, if a woman decides to marry she must give up some of her "rights" and please her man. One woman told me that a man has needs and the purpose of a woman is to please those needs.

I know this sounds crazy but I was asked why it's rape and why it isn't justified in my point of view. Well for one, I don't think it's fair to the woman. I was raised in a society where men and women are equal in a relationship. However I'm not married, I was wondering what anyone else's point of view is when sex is forced upon a woman who is married to her husband.

Rape in marriage is not justified in Islam, and Prophet Mohamed warned men from doing it.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Tashan,

Rape in marriage is not justified in Islam, and Prophet Mohamed warned men from doing it.

Please do not take it in any other sense as am not very familiar with Islamic rules on the subject and so ask to clarify the understanding.
Does it mean that if the husband is horny he hold on to his hard-on till his wife consents?? Is that the reason for having a choice of upto four wives to find one which agrees at the time?? Also in the reverse what about women who as per survey:

as many as 80 percent of women have difficulty with orgasm from vaginal intercourse

Who takes care of that?

Love & rgds

 

[Pegg]

Rape in marriage is not justified in Islam, and Prophet Mohamed warned men from doing it.

some islamic teachers say that a woman can never deny her husband...he has the right over her body when it comes to sex

i would be interested to know if that comes from the Quran or if it is opinion

 

[A-ManESL]

Rape in marriage is not justified in Islam, and Prophet Mohamed warned men from doing it.

Can you quote the hadith?

 

[Nerthus]

Rape in marriage is not justified in Islam, and Prophet Mohamed warned men from doing it.

Maybe not to go so far as to force his wife to have sex, but I spoke to an Imam at work about this topic the other day and he said that the wife should not deny the other partner if he is wanting sex. So in my mind that says that although she may consent, she doesn't necessarily want to be having sex with her husband but has to.

 

[Kathryn]

I guess I dont feel "lucky" that my husband wants to have sex with me with wild hair.UM just NOT a compliment..You are talking ALL the physical..If thats what is is I.E he "still wants to screw me even though I look like crap Im LUCKY...NO thanks..

Never mind..Im never going to feel "lucky" someone wants to hump me..EVER//Especial;;y if its "regardless of how crappy I look"Like Im getting a favor..

No thanks Im fine..

I wasn't talking about humping. I was talking about making love. In my book, there's a big difference between the two.

"Lucky" goes both ways - when desire is still present many years into a strong relationship, I think that's a good thing. Good for both partners.

In my previous abusive marriage, I dreaded sex with my husband, and I know that he used it as a form of dominance and control. That's not making love. He had no regard for my desire or pleasure.

In my current, healthy marriage, my husband has great regard for my desire and pleasure. Without going into detail, I'll just say that I'm always glad I welcomed his advances, even if I wasn't originally particularly interested. He definitely makes it "worth my while."

And of course, he would NEVER force himself on me.

I do feel lucky that my husband, who is 52, still desires me and finds me, not only intellectually interesting, but also physically attractive. I'm grateful for his love, affection, friendship, romance, humor, and sexual energy.

 

[Sahar]

Maybe not to go so far as to force his wife to have sex, but I spoke to an Imam at work about this topic the other day and he said that the wife should not deny the other partner if he is wanting sex. So in my mind that says that although she may consent, she doesn't necessarily want to be having sex with her husband but has to.

The wife should try not to deny her husband's wish as much as possible. The same goes for the husband.

In Islamic marriage, neither the husband is allowed to demand his wife what is forbidden by Allah and what is harsh and unseemly, nor the wife is allowed to demand her husband to do anything that Allah has forbidden and what would put undue burden upon her husband. Sex is a natural urge and desire. Islam allows sexual intercourse only among the married couples. Fornication and adultery are forbidden in Islam. Since according to Islam there is no other permissible way for this desire to be fulfilled except between the spouses, they must be considerate to each other.

The Shari`ah has given us two important principles in this matter. (1) The first principle is that the husband should not deny himself to his wife and the wife also should not deny herself to her husband. They should do their best to satisfy their marriage partner. Even during the menses or post childbirth bleeding, when intercourse is forbidden, husband and wife can be together and can enjoy affection and intimacy in other ways.

(2) The second principle is that in their conjugal relations the couples should be kind and considerate. There are some Ahadith that report that the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, disapproved when he heard that some husbands approached coitus abruptly and make a crude departure at the end of the act. It is reported, for example, that the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, said, "It is a rude manner of a man to proceed to have intercourse with his wife without first playing with her." Or "It is a vice in a man to assault his unprepared wife, seeking to satisfy his own lust and leaving her before she could achieve her own fulfillment…" Imam al-Ghazali

islamonline.net​

 

[Kathryn]

The wife should try not to deny her husband's wish as much as possible. The same goes for the husband.

In Islamic marriage, neither the husband is allowed to demand his wife what is forbidden by Allah and what is harsh and unseemly, nor the wife is allowed to demand her husband to do anything that Allah has forbidden and what would put undue burden upon her husband. Sex is a natural urge and desire. Islam allows sexual intercourse only among the married couples. Fornication and adultery are forbidden in Islam. Since according to Islam there is no other permissible way for this desire to be fulfilled except between the spouses, they must be considerate to each other. ​

The Shari`ah has given us two important principles in this matter. (1) The first principle is that the husband should not deny himself to his wife and the wife also should not deny herself to her husband. They should do their best to satisfy their marriage partner. Even during the menses or post childbirth bleeding, when intercourse is forbidden, husband and wife can be together and can enjoy affection and intimacy in other ways. ​

(2) The second principle is that in their conjugal relations the couples should be kind and considerate. There are some Ahadith that report that the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, disapproved when he heard that some husbands approached coitus abruptly and make a crude departure at the end of the act. It is reported, for example, that the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, said, "It is a rude manner of a man to proceed to have intercourse with his wife without first playing with her." Or "It is a vice in a man to assault his unprepared wife, seeking to satisfy his own lust and leaving her before she could achieve her own fulfillment…" Imam al-Ghazali ​

Read more: Islam​

I think this is very good advice.

 

[Nerthus]

The wife should try not to deny her husband's wish as much as possible. The same goes for the husband.

In Islamic marriage, neither the husband is allowed to demand his wife what is forbidden by Allah and what is harsh and unseemly, nor the wife is allowed to demand her husband to do anything that Allah has forbidden and what would put undue burden upon her husband. Sex is a natural urge and desire. Islam allows sexual intercourse only among the married couples. Fornication and adultery are forbidden in Islam. Since according to Islam there is no other permissible way for this desire to be fulfilled except between the spouses, they must be considerate to each other.

The Shari`ah has given us two important principles in this matter. (1) The first principle is that the husband should not deny himself to his wife and the wife also should not deny herself to her husband. They should do their best to satisfy their marriage partner. Even during the menses or post childbirth bleeding, when intercourse is forbidden, husband and wife can be together and can enjoy affection and intimacy in other ways.

(2) The second principle is that in their conjugal relations the couples should be kind and considerate. There are some Ahadith that report that the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, disapproved when he heard that some husbands approached coitus abruptly and make a crude departure at the end of the act. It is reported, for example, that the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, said, "It is a rude manner of a man to proceed to have intercourse with his wife without first playing with her." Or "It is a vice in a man to assault his unprepared wife, seeking to satisfy his own lust and leaving her before she could achieve her own fulfillment…" Imam al-Ghazali

islamonline.net​

Yes, but it still makes me feel that a women should have sex even if she doesn't want to. Which yes, of course that isn't rape, but I still see that as wrong. And from that source it implies that the wife refusing sex is more offensive that the husband refusing sex. So of course women will consent.

I think there are many areas of Islam that I will never understand - I'm not saying it is all wrong I am curious about it, but it wouldn't be something I could do.

 

[Sahar]

Yes, but it still makes me feel that a women should have sex even if she doesn't want to. Which yes, of course that isn't rape, but I still see that as wrong. And from that source it implies that the wife refusing sex is more offensive that the husband refusing sex. So of course women will consent.

This returns to her conscience. The Islamic teachings are for the sake of maintaining a marriage of love and happiness. If the number of cases of "no" is minimized to the least possible level, this is much better for the relationship. What if any of them pushed itself a little to satisfy the other half? What is with that? This applies to the other aspects of marriage, not sex only. The selfish tone must decrease a little, compromise, understanding and honest and good communication are essential for this relationship. I don't think the Islamic teachings demand people to act beyond their abilities. If one spouse is tired, unable to get into the mood...etc, the other spouse should also be understanding...but when the frequency of "no" increases and with no legitimate reason...this will affect the relationship negatively. "No" should be a rare exception. If one of them find itself unable to "get into the mood" persistently, then they must talk about, search for the problem and seek professionals' help if necessary.

I don't understand what you object to. Should we expect any guidance to a happy marriage to recommend to say "no" if the husband/the wife wanted to have sex? Respect should be mutual. This includes respecting the husband's wish when he wants sex even if she had to push herself a little to fulfill his wish and respecting the wife's wish and understanding her reasons when she says no.

 

[Nerthus]

If the number of cases of "no" is minimized to the least possible level, this is much better for the relationship. The selfish tone must decrease a little, compromise, understanding and honest and good communication are essential for this relationship.

That depends on one's view of love and marriage. I agree that people cannot be too selfish in a relationship, but I don't think having sex even when you don't want to is compromise.

I don't understand what you object to. Should we expect any guidance to a happy marriage to recommend to say "no" if the husband/the wife wanted to have sex? Respect should be mutual. This includes respecting the husband's wish when he wants sex even if she had to push herself a little to fulfill his wish and respecting the wife's wish and understanding her reasons when she says no.

Personally I don't want to be in a relationship where I feel that i should say yes to sex even when I don't want it. I also wouldn't expect my partner to have sex just because I want it. I don't like something outside of my relationship telling me how I should act inside of my relationship. Everyone is different, but that's how I feel. If I don't want sex, then I don't end of! - it's my body after all.

The husband should also respect the wish of the wife that she doesn't want sex.

 

[Sahar]

I don't like something outside of my relationship telling me how I should act inside of my relationship.

I don't know what you mean by this exactly but I was talking about Muslim persons whose religion is a very important aspect of their lives.

 

[Nerthus]

I don't know what you mean by this exactly but I was talking about Muslim persons whose religion is a very important aspect of their lives.

I know. Which is why I said everyone is different. One person might be Muslim who feels it's important and correct, and the next might not.

Which is why I said that there are some parts of Islam which I don't understand - because I don't think that this part is right. Right for me, that is.

 

[Sahar]

Personally I don't want to be in a relationship where I feel that i should say yes to sex even when I don't want it.

I don't think Islam want either partner to have sex while they are displeased with it. But to put some principles into their consideration that will affect "I want to" or "I don't want to".

I know. Which is why I said everyone is different. One person might be Muslim who feels it's important and correct, and the next might not.

Which is why I said that there are some parts of Islam which I don't understand - because I don't think that this part is right. Right for me, that is.

OK.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Ok well before anyone says it isn't, I was arguing with some people who in their religious belief believe that there is no such thing as rape in a marriage. In other words, if a woman decides to marry she must give up some of her "rights" and please her man. One woman told me that a man has needs and the purpose of a woman is to please those needs.

I know this sounds crazy but I was asked why it's rape and why it isn't justified in my point of view. Well for one, I don't think it's fair to the woman. I was raised in a society where men and women are equal in a relationship. However I'm not married, I was wondering what anyone else's point of view is when sex is forced upon a woman who is married to her husband.

Once a woman says (NO...STOP)....It must be respected....regardless of her marital status.... (IMHO)

 

[Meow Mix]

I thought about posting one of the many horrible misogynist jokes I know but considered otherwise.

 

[Kathryn]

Look, there is a difference between asking AGAIN (sweetly) when your partner seems disinterested, or snuggling up and whispering, "Oh, come on, baby...I'll make it worth your while!" - and throwing someone across a bed and raping them.

Anyone who can't tell the difference is a damn fool.

What I think the teachings from Islam are trying to get across is also what I was saying in my earlier post - if BOTH partners hold to a pattern of putting the needs of the other above their own needs, things will work out.

The point is - try putting the needs of the other ahead of your own needs, and that includes agreeing to sex sometimes when you're not overly interested in it. It does NOT mean allowing yourself to be raped.

Let's just be honest - sometimes partners become disinterested in sex, for a lot of reasons. Sometimes those reasons have very little to do with their partner. Is it fair to expect your partner to go without sex for long periods of time (you can define that based on how things were a year or two into the relationship) just because you've become disinterested? That's pretty damn offensive in and of itself. And they should just put up with it till you get back in the mood? And when might that be -weeks, months? Years? It happens. And they should just hope you change your mind? Continue to work and play together, raise kids, invest in a future, and all the while just hoping your libido eventually kicks back in? And be cheerful about it?

Of COURSE I am not saying that rape is OK. It never is. Never. But that doesn't mean that a partner has the right to constantly reject the other person either, and act aggrieved and surprised when the partner either becomes more aggressive, or angry, or eventually strays.

I have known many women over the course of my life who shock and amaze me - who, when with other women, ridicule their husbands, talk about sex as if it disgusts them, and even share that they haven't slept with their husband in months. I think this is appalling.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I thought about posting one of the many horrible misogynist jokes I know but considered otherwise.

Ah, I've finally discovered the primary difference between you and me.