This is just flat out untrue.
I was raised Catholic, and went to Catholic schools through grade 9. And never once was I discouraged from investigating any non-Cathollc ideology. Never once did I hear any admonishment against doing so in Sunday service or see it in any church literature. I was taught about evolution in 6th grade biology class. I was taught nothing that would countermand the validity of the scientific process. I participated in class discussions with priests regarding the origins and function of religious mythology, as mythology. When I was a little older I became an avid reader and kept at it for many years. And at no time was I ever discouraged from doing so in favor of some religious dogma.
Catholicism represents a very big portion of a very big global religion. And I had Protestant and Methodist friends that grew up in very much the same way as I did. No one ever told them what ideas they could or could not pursue. And even if someone had wanted to, they had absolutely no way of enforcing it. I am no longer Catholic or affiliated with any other religion. So clearly no one was able to blind me to alternative ideologies.
Your above statement is nothing but a commonly held bias among people that for whatever reason have decided to make religion into some sort of giant boogeyman or scapegoat for mankind's irrational superstitions and willful ignorance. When in truth it is far more then that, and very often active in dispelling that.
I think that it is great you were afforded such a well-rounded education. I certainly do not disagree that a religiously affiliated school can offer a well-rounded education. This issue is whether *all* do so.
My comment, however, was specifically in response to the claim that “religion does not stop anyone from learning about other ideas”. My comment regarded your reference to religion in general (not religious schools specifically) not stopping anyone from learning about other ideas. My response was informed by my anecdotal experiences. Although I too was born into the Catholic religion and all my relatives are Catholic or lapsed Catholic, my wife’s family has Evangelical non-denominational Church goers, Southern Baptist, and Evangelical Presbyterians. In addition, my children have had neighborhood friends whose families are Evangelical or born again Christians and attend the local Christian Academy School. Also, my children have attended a Christian summer camp that was on the same lake as their grandparents lake house. It is these experiences that inform me that there are churches and religious environments that discourage exploring other beliefs outside those of the church and that work hard to provide environments that conform to the prescribed belief set and reduce exposure to conflicting belief sets.
What? What I am saying is that religion is at least as significant a part of the human experience as science, art, and economics are. And it's the only one that tends to focus specifically on ethics based morality. So we should at least be teaching our kids a general overview of religion, and give them some means of comparing and evaluating them.
I could not agree more. I am all for comparative religion being taught in an objectively neutral manner as well as Ethics to include non-religious based ethical systems.
Yes, but the existence of this "self-perpetuating and isolating belief systems" ability to actually isolate anyone is just a bigot's myth. Every person's participation in any religion is voluntary. They all have access to other ideologies, and they all choose whether or not to investigate them. Human beings are free agents. Especially when it comes to their own mind.
So, in your opinion, every Muslim child has freely chosen to be Muslim after a careful consideration of all the options? Is this also true for the Christian in their many variant forms, the Jewish child, the Buddhist child?
I think millions of kids would love to know that religion is only voluntary and they shouldn’t be dragged to church, mosque, or temple if they don’t want to go.
You seem to hold to this strange idea that religions have the power to control people's minds. And that simply is not true. All any ideology can ever do is offer us intellectual possibilities. WE choose to either adopt them or not to.
Let’s take religion out of it. Different cultures have different customs and taboos. In the Arab world it is offensive to show another the soles of your feet or shoes. If offense is truly felt by an Arab when presented with the sole of another's foot, is the understanding that the sole of the foot is inherently offensive something that every Arab independently concludes? Did they make a conscious choice in the matter?
What about belching? Some cultures it's a compliment, and in others it is rude. Is everyone randomly and independently choosing to see belching as either rude or a compliment?
I wonder if you underestimate the power of socialization and indoctrination.
When they are ready and able to understand and assess the options, we can, and should. I left Catholicism when I was about 16 years old. But I was not able to develop my own cohesive position on religion until I was about 20. And on theism much later. Dumping comparative religions, or comparative politics, or comparative philosophy on 10 year olds is just stupid. It's only going to confuse them. But as the intellect matures, it will become ready for such complexity and assessment. And they will then begin to seek it out, if they are so inclined. W should make it available to them, and give them a means of assessing them. After that, it will be up to them.
What people believe affects the way they act and interact with others. I think we both agree on this. I think we also both agree that an ethical system works best when there is buy-in by all involved parties. There are a wide variety of belief sets out in the world and I think we both agree that belief sets can and should be evaluated both on how they affect individuals as well as how belief sets can affect society as a whole.
If we leave religion again for a moment and imagine a private school that was organized around a belief in a neo-nazi ideology, one in which neo-nazi ideology was referenced or emphasized in glowing, praising terms throughout the curriculum, do you think that such an educational environment can have a long lasting or permanent effect on some percentage of graduates throughout their adulthood, despite being exposed to other beliefs after schooling? I am *NOT* equating religion to neo-nazism, by the way. It is simply a stark example of a belief set I assume you would not agree with but may agree others might be conditioned to believe.
If it is your position that such a schooling environment would have no effect on the students in terms of their openness to entertaining conflicting belief sets as adults, I see that position as wholly unrealistic. This would be compounded if such schools were dominant in the culture.
Sadly, you cannot seem to differentiate between most common expressions of religion and the "indoctrinating (people) in dependency forming belief systems". Your bigotry against religion as 'the big cultural boogeyman' is blinding you to the reality of it. And if you are not willing to try and see past this nonsense there is nowhere for this discussion to go.
I’m sorry you find me to be a bigot.
If we can critically evaluate the value, to individuals and society, of some belief sets, we should be able to think critically and evaluate all belief sets. That is what I am advocating. No belief set that impacts the entire society should receive special exemption status. If what and the way we teach our children has lasting effects for them and society as a whole, then it behooves us to continually assess what and how we are teaching them.
If your concern is the moral and ethical health of society, then let’s discuss that on an even playing field without giving preference to any one belief set or category of belief set. We should be able to think critically about all of it.
A well rounded education would surely include an in depth overview of the world's religions and an effective means of comparing them.
I agree completely, as I have above. This would include exploring how religious thought has evolved over time as well, not simply comparing current practices.
