Is Satan an Atheist or believes in God?

[The Kilted Heathen]

And what proof do you have that he does not believe your god exists? Beings with such knowledge generally don't speak to the non-existent.

 

[Link]

And what proof do you have that he does not believe your god exists? Beings with such knowledge generally don't speak to the non-existent.

Sarcasm and the proof: it's impossible to know God and believe he gave a wrong order that does not make sense. No one can believe in God and then tell him while believing, you gave a wrong order and I don't believe you are right.

 

[Link]

That and Quran says "whoever believes in God, God will guide their heart".

 

[Nakosis]

If he knows, then he is not an atheist. He is just plain stupid, to believe to win against an almighty being. Or simply in denial.

cio

- viole

I kind of think the term atheist is misused in the passage above. Maybe a mistranslation?

 

[Link]

I kind of think the term atheist is misused in the passage above. Maybe a mistranslation?

I looked up the Arabic not just translation, it's Zindiq and mulhid both terms at that time used by Arabs for Atheists.

 

[Link]

I can scan the Arabic if you want.

 

[viole]

That and Quran says "whoever believes in God, God will guide their heart".

Why the heart, and the brain?

ciao

- viole

 

[Link]

Why the heart, and the brain?

ciao

- viole

The heart is the soul, the brain is part of the material world which is just a simulation. The body and brain is just a way we interact in the world like you interact in a game through avatar/character in the game.

 

[Nakosis]

I looked up the Arabic not just translation, it's Zindiq and mulhid both terms at that time by Arabs used for Atheists.

Well, I guess in the sense that Satan doesn't see God as God. God would have supreme authority. Satan denies God's godhood.

 

[Nakosis]

Why the heart, and the brain?

ciao

- viole

Feelings vs rational thought.
Still not very accurate. I wonder how the heart became the source of feelings.

“Both Galen and Aristotle believe that our emotions, all this sort of stuff, is governed by our humors,” Bouley explains. This refers to blood, phlegm, and black and yellow bile. Since the heart was believed to churn and heat the blood, it could affect your emotions. “Galen and Aristotle both believe that your heart’s not only sort of a center of the soul, but it’s also something that very much affects how you’re feeling and how you’re reacting to things,” Bouley adds. Since Galen believed that semen was superheated blood, that also meant the heart also played a role in sexual love. In Galen’s view, “when a man has sex, he’s so impassioned, so heated, he whips his blood into this froth,” Bouley says, “like an espresso machine.”
How the Heart Became the Symbol of Love, Lust and the Soul

 

[Link]

Well, I guess in the sense that Satan doesn't see God as God. God would have supreme authority. Satan denies God's godhood.

Like I previously said, even the highest signs of God don't see God directly, they see God through themselves and see that God sustains them. When Mohammad (s) was two bows or closer still, he saw the highest signs through his and his family light in the highest unseen reality - which is the tree of utmost limit and in Ziyarats we say to Imam Ali (a) for example that he is the tree of utmost limit (Sidratal Muntaha). But they too have "faith" in this. Direct sustenance from God is true, they know this with certainty, but to Satan, he thinks they derive power and increase in it from themselves.

The Prophets believe God gives them this power and trust in Gabriel and Michael when they perform miracles, and believe in the light of God but their opponents and Iblis believe them to be sorcerers attaining their power on their own or not through directly sustained by God. They opponents believe Prophets when performing miracles have attained this power through inheritance (of one sorcerer to another).

They believe Imam Mahdi (a) is a sorcerer that inherited his powers and is greedy and won't share it, but that they will one day overcome him and the Angels as well.

 

[firedragon]

Salam

Everyone assumes he believes in God but is disobeying, and hence his disbelief is due not being submissive, but I find opposite proof to this in Quran. He does not believe in God and I've tried to show the way he talks to God is sarcasm to Ahlulbayt about the God as if talking to God that they believe, he is talking to the veils, in a sarcastic way as if the voice utter through them is not God but definitely a falsehood.

Today, I was rereading tuhuf al-Uqool, and in it I found:

Harun asked the Imam (7th Imam) about the first one who apostatized and became an atheist. The Imam (peace be upon him) answered:

The first one who apostatized and became an atheist in the heavens was Eblis the cursed. He showed arrogance and took pride in himself against Adam (peace be upon him) the choice and confidant of God. The cursed said - as it is mentioned in the Quran-:

I am better than Adam, for You have created me out of fire and Adam out of clay. [309]

Thus, he rejected the Lord’s orders and became atheist. His offspring inherited atheism from him.

Harun wondered whether Eblis has offspring. The Imam (peace be upon him) answered:

Eblis has offspring. Listen to God’s saying:

When We told the angels to prostrate before Adam they all obeyed except Eblis. He was a jinn and he sinned against the command of his Lord. Why do you (people) obey him and his offspring instead of Me, even though they are your enemies? How terrible will be the recompense that the wrong doers will receive! I did not call (the unjust) to witness the creation of the heavens and earth nor to witness their own creation nor did I want to be helped by those who lead people astray. [310]

They mislead the offspring of Adam through their false vanities and lies. Meanwhile, they declare that there is no god but Allah. God describes them in His following saying:

If you ask them, "Who has created the heavens and the earth," they will certainly say, "God has created them." Say, "It is only God who deserves all praise, but most of them do not know." [311]

This means that they declare so only with their tongues because they used to say so as one of their customs. He who does not believe, even if he declares with the tongue, will be suspicious, envious, and resistant.

Which verse in that equation mentions the ahlil baith?

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Sarcasm and the proof: it's impossible to know God and believe he gave a wrong order that does not make sense. No one can believe in God and then tell him while believing, you gave a wrong order and I don't believe you are right.

That is your belief. When it is stated clearly in narration that Iblis knew of the presence and existence of your god, knew of his actions and methods in creation of both jinn and man, this clearly disqualifies Iblis from the position of being an atheist. What's more he doesn't just believe your god exists, he KNOWS.

That and Quran says "whoever believes in God, God will guide their heart".

A passage that is, then, flatly wrong. Many believe your god exists, yet still do not worship or follow him. Such is the folly of man-written texts.

 

[firedragon]

Feelings vs rational thought.
Still not very accurate. I wonder how the heart became the source of feelings.

Most, when they say "dont break my heart" dont mean someone freezing the physical heart in a fridge or a freezer and using a tool to break it.

 

[Link]

Which verse in that equation mentions the ahlil baith?

This can be a discussion but not for this thread, but to be brief it's contextual that the everlasting authority Adam (a) wanted to attain to and the tree of everlastingness is the exalted ones that Iblis was asked if he was one of when he didn't do sujood. But if you don't believe in Ahlulbayt (A) in the first place, we have to start with Ulil-Amr recognizing them, etc, Al-Qurba, then to lights/stars of heaven, etc, and we can unravel it.

 

[idea]

I would guess that Satan believes themselves to be God.

There are many who believe themselves to be God

I guess it is up to us to decide who, if any, is the actual loving/just/creator.

 

[Link]

A passage that is, then, flatly wrong. Many believe your god exists, yet still do not worship or follow him. Such is the folly of man-written texts.

People who believe in God as in the absolute, will be guided to truth available to them. The people that believe in God but are not "Muslims", it's simply because the truth of Islam has not become available to them for some reason.

In this day, because of the non-sense attributed to by "Muslims" to Quran and Sunnah, it can be many believers in God assume Islam to be wrong for reasons that are not their fault.

At the end, if a heart is submissive towards truth, it will be forgiven and lovers of God will be forgiven.

 

[firedragon]

This can be a discussion but not for this thread, but to be brief it's contextual that the everlasting authority Adam (a) wanted to attain to and the tree of everlastingness is the exalted ones that Iblis was asked if he was one of when he didn't do sujood. But if you don't believe in Ahlulbayt (A) in the first place, we have to start with Ulil-Amr recognizing them, etc, Al-Qurba, then to lights/stars of heaven, etc, and we can unravel it.

What do you think "Sajadah" is?

 

[viole]

Feelings vs rational thought.
Still not very accurate. I wonder how the heart became the source of feelings.

I have a theory. Spiritual people do not like feelings like love having the same origin of things like geometry. So, it is a sort of dualism that needs a sort of second organ as residence. And what is left? I can hardly imagine things like love residing in the liver, or the bladder. So, a blood pump whose pumping frequency is also affected by feelings, seems the best candidate.

ciao

- viole

 

[Link]

What do you think "Sajadah" is?

It's submission to God through acknowledging the Authority of Adam (a). The physical prostrations are only acknowledging God as Authority but most people don't perceive this.

We are asked to submit to Mohammad (s) only because Mohammad (s) is means to God. The true submission is to God.