Is the Arab World's explusion of Jews news to you?

[Tumah]

If you count prophet by books only, you might be right but I can't confirm the 400 years BCE date.

The last of the Jewish prophets died during the Second Temple which stood for 400+ years. Jesus according to the NT lived at the end of the Second Temple. So about 400 years.

There are a big number of prophets between Mosa and Al-Maseh, I think all of them.

That is according to Islam. According to Judaism, there were continuous prophets from Adam until Malachi.

It's expected that there should be continuity of prophets not to be left without a prophet for 400 years.

According to Islam there hasn't been a prophet in much more than 400 years.

No problem, I can't debate this point other than logic.
Allah told us in Quran that Zakaria who is Yahia's father. Yahia and Zakaria were sons of 2 sisters. Both Al-Maseh and Yahia were prophets.

That is an Islamic belief, not a Jewish one.

Not for Christians, please don't read
Between me and you, let me ask a question.
Forget about this faked character Jesus-Christ.

The most doubted man all over the history who caused the biggest nation to exist is nothing in Jewish History.
He wasn't a fly or an insect.
He was a special Jew regardless of Pauline-Christinty.
Even if he's not Al-Masseh king of Jews, suppose he was a liar.
There should be something about him

That's not logical. According to Islam who doesn't believe that Christianity is true, Jesus didn't start the biggest nation that turned to All-h. Even if he taught Islamic religion, it didn't catch on. That means Jesus didn't have such a big effect on people and the biggest nation in the world which doesn't worship All-h wasn't caused by Jesus but someone teaching non-Islamic religion. So what is your argument?

I'm not native English, my semantics sometimes is inconvenient.
Let me phrase it:

• We don't have such concept of love your enemy
• We've concept of living together
• Jews and Christians have a special rank. We can do manythings together that we can't do with others
• We can marry a Christian/Jew woman, We can eat your food. These are not allowed with others
  
• In Islam Love and prayer are for believers only
• Believers are all people since Adam who believed prophets of their date

Regards

Ok.

 

[Tumah]

No agreement .

What no agreement. I've already linked to you cases where this was true.

What about Jews and Torah ?

Who can tell? We haven't been in positions of power during recorded history. We also don't have expansionist policies as part of our religion, so there's no way to know how a Jew would act in that regard. The only country in which we have Laws governing non-Jews is in Israel and they don't apply today for various reasons.

But I think its safe to assume that there are Jews that don't/wouldn't follow Jewish Law.

Caliphate Umar applied the Islamic Law.
If you see it's not a good law, I can't persude you with the oppsite but....
There is a law (good or bad), under the Islamic law, you'll never find personal Muslims kill, steal, attack, harsh women,,,, nothing like this. This is absolutely Haram in Islam. As long as the non-Muslim is under the Islamic Law, he's untouchable by Muslims. This is my point.

You are talking about one Caliph and I am talking about another. Your also assuming that all Muslim rulers applied Islamic law or understood Islamic law the same way you do. This is definitely not true as I quoted to you a Caliph from Egypt who believed that Islamic law required him to humiliate the non-Muslims who came to pay jiziya.

Fair enough, Muslims were welcomed at that time. Everyone was free to practice in Juraslim till British took over Palestine then Israel State.

I'm pretty sure everyone is still free to practice their religions.

You know that Byzantine Christians turned the Holy of Holies to dunk-hill and from time to time they were attacking Jews.

Before the Byzantines the Romans had already built a temple to their idols on the site of the Temple.

Let us not discuss that we've turned Holy of Holies to Alaqsa mosque. We can discuss later.
The point is, There is a shine side of Muslims taken over the city.

And there is a shine site that Jews took over Israel too. The standard of living in Israel is much better than what it was before Jews came here. The Muslims and Christians that "pay jiziya (I mean this metaphorically)" to the Jewish state have a much better life than they did before the Jews took control here.

Arabs secular government are worse than non-Arab governments till date. It was a planned move to apply Security council 181 to partition Palestine between Palestinians and Zionists. It was part of the conspiracy.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

But let me tell you something, Palestine is not Palestinian affair only, It's not even Arabic affair only, It's all Muslims affair. It'll be like this till end date. Even if Palestine authority approves any deal with Israel state, Muslims will not accept/recognize.

So what?

I prefer to call Jews in Palestine as Zionists because there is even Jews sects in Palestine don't support Israel State.

This sentence doesn't make sense. I live in Israel. I am not a Zionist.

Absolutely, Zionists and anyone has this right to defend their land against colonize or conquer

So if the Muslims came and conquered Israel and now the Jews have the strength to get it back, why shouldn't they?

To answer you specifically of the Palestine case, Let me ask you a few questions:
How many Zionists were in Palestine in 19th century ? How the number of Zionists changed since that date ?

I don't know the numbers. But how does that matter? The Jews were exiled from Judea and the majority of the remainder later left due to persecution. Are you saying that once you leave the country you lose the right to it? So all the Palestinian refugees lost their right to the land?

How much percentage of land Zionists owned during these periods till even 1948 ?

You can find out some more about that here. Apparently the Ottomans and the British prohibited Jews from buying land in Israel.

Were there a closed geographic are in Palestine with Zionists majority ? What is the percentage ?
Regards

You can read more about that here. Not all Jews living in Israel were Zionists.

Now that you've asked all these question, maybe you can explain what this has to do with anything?

 

[Limo]

.
.




That's not logical. According to Islam who doesn't believe that Christianity is true, Jesus didn't start the biggest nation that turned to All-h. Even if he taught Islamic religion, it didn't catch on. That means Jesus didn't have such a big effect on people and the biggest nation in the world which doesn't worship All-h wasn't caused by Jesus but someone teaching non-Islamic religion. So what is your argument?


.

Yes Al-Maseh didn't establish Christianity but he as Al-Maseh or someone who pertained to be Al-Maseh.
He should have a noticable no of Jews followed him.
Why there is no a single sign on him in Judaic history ?
This is the point

 

[Limo]

What no agreement. I've already linked to you cases where this was true.

As it's always said there are 2 sides of the story

Who can tell? We haven't been in positions of power during recorded history. We also don't have expansionist policies as part of our religion, so there's no way to know how a Jew would act in that regard. The only country in which we have Laws governing non-Jews is in Israel and they don't apply today for various reasons.

But I think its safe to assume that there are Jews that don't/wouldn't follow Jewish Law.

You had even if the historical records don't have. Torah is like Quran has war laws.
I can't say a ward about these laws as it might be from original true revalidation from Allah to israiliets prophets we believe in both. In Torah there are instructions to kill everything breathes and child and woman. As I said if it's from Allah then it's true and was needed at that time.
History records also that your ancestors helped Persian in 6th century to kill hundreds of thousands of Christians in Palastine till it was taken over by Hercules.
Christina are fasting one week for Hercules till date when he revenged from jews.

You've expansion policy, what about greatest Israel from Nile River in middle of Egypt to elforate River in middle of Iraq and Syria in between whole Jordan
What laws in Israel you're talking about ?
Laws that prevents a Palastinian who can't get in Israel for his property, then a Jew can take over closed houses and unused properties .

You are talking about one Caliph and I am talking about another. Your also assuming that all Muslim rulers applied Islamic law or understood Islamic law the same way you do. This is definitely not true as I quoted to you a Caliph from Egypt who believed that Islamic law required him to humiliate the non-Muslims who came to pay jiziya.

I agree it's not always the case.
But good caliph or governer apply the law then nonmuslim lives in peace

I'm pretty sure everyone is still free to practice their religions.

How come?
You're selecting people who can go to Alaska masjed.
You're digging under the masjed . A lot masjeds have been collapsed. The ibrahimi masjed that has been taken for days as synagogue.
And many cases

Before the Byzantines the Romans had already built a temple to their idols on the site of the Temple.

And there is a shine site that Jews took over Israel too. The standard of living in Israel is much better than what it was before Jews came here. The Muslims and Christians that "pay jiziya (I mean this metaphorically)" to the Jewish state have a much better life than they did before the Jews took control here.


I have no idea what you're talking about.


So what?

Israel has no future

This sentence doesn't make sense. I live in Israel. I am not a Zionist.


So if the Muslims came and conquered Israel and now the Jews have the strength to get it back, why shouldn't they?

Normal to fight back

I don't know the numbers. But how does that matter? The Jews were exiled from Judea and the majority of the remainder later left due to persecution. Are you saying that once you leave the country you lose the right to it? So all the Palestinian refugees lost their right to the land?


You can find out some more about that here. Apparently the Ottomans and the British prohibited Jews from buying land in Israel.


You can read more about that here. Not all Jews living in Israel were Zionists.

Now that you've asked all these question, maybe you can explain what this has to do with anything?

The point is Zionists were never a majority of land owner in Palestine to say they were defending their land or an ethnic groups in a certain geography seeking independence .
They were just armed groups in terrost organizatons as per the British government at that time

 

[icehorse]

Hey Limo,

People from many religions have lived in the ME for hundreds or even thousands of years, correct?

At this point, other than in Israel, Muslims have taken over all of the land in the ME. Using your logic, should Muslims give back the land they've taken from people of other religions who have lived in the ME for centuries?

 

[Limo]

Hey Limo,

People from many religions have lived in the ME for hundreds or even thousands of years, correct?

Hi Icehorse
Correct.

At this point, other than in Israel, Muslims have taken over all of the land in the ME. Using your logic, should Muslims give back the land they've taken from people of other religions who have lived in the ME for centuries?

Muslims have taken all ME including Palestine
Here is the point, Muslims were not imperialistic capital colonize who steal the wealth and slave people.
ME people now have chosen Islam across centuries. ME people who are the owner of the lands are Muslims now. Non-Muslim are minority living among their people who are Muslims.
So, shall Majority local people leave the land minority local people ?
Regards

 

[Tumah]

Yes Al-Maseh didn't establish Christianity but he as Al-Maseh or someone who pertained to be Al-Maseh.
He should have a noticable no of Jews followed him.
Why there is no a single sign on him in Judaic history ?
This is the point

I have absolutely no idea what you're trying to say. He was a false-messiah. Jews don't follow him because he is not the real one.

 

[Tumah]

As it's always said there are 2 sides of the story

OK, so let's hear the other side...

You had even if the historical records don't have. Torah is like Quran has war laws.
I can't say a ward about these laws as it might be from original true revalidation from Allah to israiliets prophets we believe in both. In Torah there are instructions to kill everything breathes and child and woman. As I said if it's from Allah then it's true and was needed at that time.
History records also that your ancestors helped Persian in 6th century to kill hundreds of thousands of Christians in Palastine till it was taken over by Hercules.
Christina are fasting one week for Hercules till date when he revenged from jews.

I don't see what this has to do with anything. You had said that Muslims following Muslim laws wouldn't do anything bad to the people under their rule. I pointed out that either they weren't following Muslim laws or they weren't interpreting the laws the same way you are. Just like Christians who have laws to treat other people nicely didn't follow their laws during the Middle Ages. Then you asked if its the same with Jews and Torah. I said there's never been a time when Jews were in power over non-Jews to know how they would act.

And for some reason you are responding to me about when Jews went to war against other nations. What does this have to do with what we were talking about?

You've expansion policy, what about greatest Israel from Nile River in middle of Egypt to elforate River in middle of Iraq and Syria in between whole Jordan

That is something G-d promised us and its His job to deliver it. Today by Jewish Law not even all the parts of what is Israel today has the status of "the Land of Israel" in Jewish law.

What laws in Israel you're talking about ?

If Israel would be run by Jewish Law, there were a certain percentage of Jews living there and the Sanhedrin existed, then Laws about how to treat non-Jews would be in effect.

Laws that prevents a Palastinian who can't get in Israel for his property, then a Jew can take over closed houses and unused properties .

Do you want to play that game?

I agree it's not always the case.
But good caliph or governer apply the law then nonmuslim lives in peace

And when the bad ones applies the law, non-Muslims didn't live in peace.

How come?

Because that's how it is.

You're selecting people who can go to Alaska masjed.

That's because of security (you know - Muslims throwing rocks down on the people below). That doesn't mean they can't practice Islam openly. You can hear the adhan throughout the entire country. I often see Muslims praying out in the open. There are Sharia courts to take care of Muslims.

You're digging under the masjed .

Is there an Islamic law that doesn't allow digging under masajid?
Not that I know which mosque you're talking about...

A lot masjeds have been collapsed.

Like ones that are built illegally? That's true of synagogues too.

The ibrahimi masjed that has been taken for days as synagogue.

That's not the same is it? You of course know that the Cave of the Patriarchs has significance to Jews also and it was Muslims that took it over and made the mosque.

Israel has no future

That is your belief, not mine.

Normal to fight back

So long as you recognize the legitimacy of the claim on the other side.

The point is Zionists were never a majority of land owner in Palestine to say they were defending their land or an ethnic groups in a certain geography seeking independence .
They were just armed groups in terrost organizatons as per the British government at that time

Your comment shows that you know very little about Zionism. But either way Zionism as a national ideology is fairly new, so technically you are correct. But Jews were a majority landowner in Israel for many, many years.

 

[Tumah]

Here is the point, Muslims were not imperialistic capital colonize who steal the wealth and slave people.

You're kidding right?

 

[Limo]

I have absolutely no idea what you're trying to say. He was a false-messiah. Jews don't follow him because he is not the real one.

I know that you see him as a false-messiah but he wasn't like any other one. He shouldn't have been ignored in Judaic history.
Yes, he didn't made the Christianity. He never knew about it even but he was different. A considerable no of Jews followed him.

No problem, let us finish the discussion here.

 

[Limo]

OK, so let's hear the other side...


I don't see what this has to do with anything. You had said that Muslims following Muslim laws wouldn't do anything bad to the people under their rule. I pointed out that either they weren't following Muslim laws or they weren't interpreting the laws the same way you are. Just like Christians who have laws to treat other people nicely didn't follow their laws during the Middle Ages. Then you asked if its the same with Jews and Torah. I said there's never been a time when Jews were in power over non-Jews to know how they would act.

And for some reason you are responding to me about when Jews went to war against other nations. What does this have to do with what we were talking about?


That is something G-d promised us and its His job to deliver it. Today by Jewish Law not even all the parts of what is Israel today has the status of "the Land of Israel" in Jewish law.


If Israel would be run by Jewish Law, there were a certain percentage of Jews living there and the Sanhedrin existed, then Laws about how to treat non-Jews would be in effect.


Do you want to play that game?


And when the bad ones applies the law, non-Muslims didn't live in peace.


Because that's how it is.

That's because of security (you know - Muslims throwing rocks down on the people below). That doesn't mean they can't practice Islam openly. You can hear the adhan throughout the entire country. I often see Muslims praying out in the open. There are Sharia courts to take care of Muslims.


Is there an Islamic law that doesn't allow digging under masajid?
Not that I know which mosque you're talking about...


Like ones that are built illegally? That's true of synagogues too.

That's not the same is it? You of course know that the Cave of the Patriarchs has significance to Jews also and it was Muslims that took it over and made the mosque.


That is your belief, not mine.


So long as you recognize the legitimacy of the claim on the other side.


Your comment shows that you know very little about Zionism. But either way Zionism as a national ideology is fairly new, so technically you are correct. But Jews were a majority landowner in Israel for many, many years.

No agreement.
There is no use for exchange known evidences to both sides

 

[Limo]

You're kidding right?

No kidding in history.
Facts talk.
Are there non-Muslims in all areas that were under Islamic Caliphate or not ?

 

[LuisDantas]

No kidding in history.
Facts talk.
Are there non-Muslims in all areas that were under Islamic Caliphate or not ?

You are kidding, then.

 

[Limo]

You are kidding, then.

What is the definition of kidding here ?

 

[LuisDantas]

What is the definition of kidding here ?

"Stating something known to be false as if it were true" will fit the bill this time.

You are attempting to argue that the simple existence of a minority is clear evidence that it was not repressed. That makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[icehorse]

@Luis - you seem to be forgetting that Muslims have a *right* to rule the world.

 

[Limo]

"Stating something known to be false as if it were true" will fit the bill this time.

You are attempting to argue that the simple existence of a minority is clear evidence that it was not repressed. That makes no sense whatsoever.

You're not kidding, you're joking.
You're not following up, you're jumping to prejudgment
Where did I say so ?

 

[Flankerl]

and a few changes

Devarim 4:2

1 And now, O Israel, hearken to the statutes and to the judgments which I teach you to do, in order that you may live, and go in and possess the land which the Lord, God of your forefathers, is giving you.
2 Do not add to the word which I command you, nor diminish from it, to observe the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.

There should be something about him

He's seen as a false Messiah. Isn't that something?

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Here is the point, Muslims were not imperialistic capital colonize who steal the wealth and slave people.

What revisionist nonsense is this? Are you honestly trying to pretend that Muslims were any better than contemporary non-Muslims? Of course they enslaved people, stole their wealth and colonised all over the place. Look what happened in Persia; unless you think the Parsis were fleeing from Muslim tolerance and polite discourse? North Africa, the Levant and Mesopotamia didn't start out as Arab majority regions!

 

[Limo]

Devarim 4:2

1 And now, O Israel, hearken to the statutes and to the judgments which I teach you to do, in order that you may live, and go in and possess the land which the Lord, God of your forefathers, is giving you.
2 Do not add to the word which I command you, nor diminish from it, to observe the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.

Nobody can change Allah's law to any prophet, Only Allah can do. Allah does via prophets.
Al-Maseh Isa was a prophet from Allah as Mosa. He didn't change the commandments, Allah told him that some foods that were forbidden (Haram) on Israelis they can eat now (Halal).

Quran 3:50 "And I have come confirming that which was before me of the Taurat (Torah), and to make lawful to you part of what was forbidden to you, and I have come to you with a proof from your Lord. So fear Allah and obey me."

He's seen as a false Messiah. Isn't that something?

Since when ? Which one ?
There should be something in Al-Masseh Isa Ibn Mariam time tells that he was true or false Messiah.
Also, If you're taking about Jesus-Christ innovated character in Nicaea and after, I don't believe even that he existed.
We're talking about the humble human who was Israelis lived in Palestine as one of Israelis prophets, neither a God nor Son of God, lived according to Mosa's laws, monotheist. He has many followers. He should have been notices at his time even as a false Messiah
Regards