Is the Crucifix blasphemous?

[Quiddity]

It was in Peru, and the Catholic Church organized the carying of the image through the streets, along with building shines for the different images... take it for what it's worth. I don't claim to be an expert on the subject, but South America Catholicism seems quite a bit different from the Catholicism of the rest of the world.

I'm not sure what your objection to this is? Not unless you believe carrying graven images is a sin?

~Victor

 

[spacemonkey]

The example you stated would be a "no no" in Catholic teaching. Read Do Catholics Worship Statues?

This should clear some things up.

~Victor

I see alot of flaws in the first few paragraphs of that link. First, the Bible passages desciping God's "command" to make graven images were his directions for the Ark of the Covenant, not for the insides of a temple.

Who did you see worshiping graven images?

I would say the Catholic practice of using a rosary in order pray as worshipping a graven image. I have also seen Catholics kneel and pray at the feet of statues of the Virgin Mary.

 

[SoyLeche]

I'm not sure what your objection to this is? Not unless you believe carrying graven images is a sin?

~Victor

That's why I asked for a definition of worship, because I would consider carying an image around the city on your shoulders while all the people chear to be worshiping the image.

 

[Quiddity]

I see alot of flaws in the first few paragraphs of that link. First, the Bible passages desciping God's "command" to make graven images were his directions for the Ark of the Covenant, not for the insides of a temple.

What about inside McDonalds?
Give me a break man. Your missing the point.

I would say the Catholic practice of using a rosary in order pray as worshipping a graven image. I have also seen Catholics kneel and pray at the feet of statues of the Virgin Mary.

Think what you want. Your not hear to understand. But to attack. I provided a link and I doubt you read it all.

~Victor

 

[Quiddity]

That's why I asked for a definition of worship, because I would consider carying an image around the city on your shoulders while all the people chear to be worshiping the image.

What about the quarter in your pocket?
Did you read both links I provided? I think you should read them and get back to me.

~Victor

 

[spacemonkey]

Think what you want. Your not hear to understand. But to attack. I provided a link and I doubt you read it all.

I did read the link, just because the CATHOLIC ANSWERS website says something doesn't mean thats the end of the debate. I seriously doubt a website titled Catholic Answers is going to have a article saying that Catholics are doing anything wong. My question comes from my own observations, not from blindly believing what I've been told to believe (both sides of my family are Catholic). It has always been my contention that the Catholic Church has been more about politics then the worshipping of God, and I believe that Catholics started using graven images to help convert Pagan people. So please quit insulting me because I don't accept blindly the same things you do.

 

[Quiddity]

I did read the link, just because the CATHOLIC ANSWERS website says something doesn't mean thats the end of the debate.

Correct, but if you can't even understand Catholic Answers there is nothing to debate.

I seriously doubt a website titled Catholic Answers is going to have a article saying that Catholics are doing anything wong.

Little do you know...

My question comes from my own observations, not from blindly believing what I've been told to believe (both sides of my family are Catholic).

Peachy, but this still doesn't gurantee understanding.

It has always been my contention that the Catholic Church has been more about politics then the worshipping of God,

That is becoming blantanly obvious by now...
Even if correct. It does no damage to my faith. Truth can come out of sinful and evil men..

and I believe that Catholics started using graven images to help convert Pagan people.

Your not that off here. There is some truth in this. Again, this does nothing to shake my faith if you read into why the Church did it.

So please quit insulting me because I don't accept blindly the same things you do.

For a second there I though you were insulting me..
Nonetheless, I have shown horrible charity and I apologize but please understand that you are blurting out statements based on your "obsevations" and aren't even varyfying them but calling them as "this is so". That won't fly here.

~Victor

 

[spacemonkey]

What about the quarter in your pocket?

1. No one worships George Washington as a God.
2. Nowhere in the Constitution does it state, "Thou shalt not carry graven images of dead presidents".

Apples and oranges my friend

 

[Quiddity]

1. No one worships George Washington as a God.
2. Nowhere in the Constitution does it state, "Thou shalt not carry graven images of dead presidents".

Apples and oranges my friend

The RC does not teach that one must worship statues. How much clearer do you want it?

~Victor

 

[SoyLeche]

I don't have a problem with immages in general. We have pictures of Christ in our house, and they are there to help us remember, just like has been said in this thread. The problem that I have with what I saw in Peru is that the celebrations are about specific images. They name them. "Lord of the Miracles" is not only a title of Christ, but is the name of an image that suposedly survived a fire, and therefore has miraculous powers. "Lord of Muruhuay" is an image that "appeared" one day on some rocks, and has since had a shrine built around it. These aren't just a reminder to the people, but are said to have divine attributes. That's about as close to worshiping an immage that I have ever seen.

 

[Quiddity]

I don't have a problem with immages in general. We have pictures of Christ in our house, and they are there to help us remember, just like has been said in this thread. The problem that I have with what I saw in Peru is that the celebrations are about specific images. They name them. "Lord of the Miracles" is not only a title of Christ, but is the name of an image that suposedly survived a fire, and therefore has miraculous powers. "Lord of Muruhuay" is an image that "appeared" one day on some rocks, and has since had a shrine built around it. These aren't just a reminder to the people, but are said to have divine attributes. That's about as close to worshiping an immage that I have ever seen.

Without being there and asking, I wouldn't know what they mean by Lord of the Miracles. Moses and many others had divine attributes. But we both know what they didn't do it under their own powers. If the people in Peru are truly worshiping the statues then I would be right there with you objecting to it. I'm only sharing with you what Catholic doctrine is.

~Victor

 

[SoyLeche]

Without being there and asking, I wouldn't know what they mean by Lord of the Miracles. Moses and many others had divine attributes. But we both know what they didn't do it under their own powers. If the people in Peru are truly worshiping the statues then I would be right there with you objecting to it. I'm only sharing with you what Catholic doctrine is.

~Victor

I can accept that. Like I said, the Catholics I met in Peru are considerably different from the Catholics I have met in the U.S.A.

 

[SoyLeche]

I don't have a problem with immages in general. We have pictures of Christ in our house, and they are there to help us remember, just like has been said in this thread. The problem that I have with what I saw in Peru is that the celebrations are about specific images. They name them. "Lord of the Miracles" is not only a title of Christ, but is the name of an image that suposedly survived a fire, and therefore has miraculous powers. "Lord of Muruhuay" is an image that "appeared" one day on some rocks, and has since had a shrine built around it. These aren't just a reminder to the people, but are said to have divine attributes. That's about as close to worshiping an immage that I have ever seen.

I just realized that I was wrong. "Senor de los Milagros" survived an earthquake, not a fire, and is supposed to protect the city from earthquakes - if I remeber right.

 

[Fatmop]

All Orthodox Christians are expected to wear a cross around their neck, inside their clothes, at all times. We are strongly discouraged from displaying it outside our clothes because such could lead to spiritual pride. We wear it, however, as a reminder of our baptism and of our symbolically having taken up Christ's cross. It is not, because it's hidden, a badge that allows us to be identified in the way you seem to think (this actually may be true of some such people but I can only explain our view) but rather is the spiritual equivalent of a knot in a handkerchief - a constant reminder of who we follow.

That's a lot more understandable. I'm a teenager, and the people I described are generally also in their teens. I honestly think that for most of them, it is a matter of pride to wear the cross around their necks. But I'm not knocking Orthodox.. just American protestants!

 

[spacemonkey]

The RC does not teach that one must worship statues. How much clearer do you want it?

~Victor

I didn't say they teach it, I was just saying that I've seen alot of them doing it.

Correct, but if you can't even understand Catholic Answers there is nothing to debate.

Yet another veiled insult. Who says that I don't understand it, I said I don't BELIVE it verbatim.

Little do you know...

Give me a link where they admit Catholic fallibilty and I will know.

Your not that off here. There is some truth in this. Again, this does nothing to shake my faith if you read into why the Church did it.

So Constentine could reunify the Roman Empire once again. It was purely POLITICAL.

 

[Sunstone]

Without representing Jesus as a man, how are Christians to emphasize that God took on human form to save the world? It doesn't seem to me that Jesus on the crucifix is blashemous, but rather it is in line with essential Christian theology.

 

[SoyLeche]

Without representing Jesus as a man, how are Christians to emphasize that God took on human form to save the world? It doesn't seem to me that Jesus on the crucifix is blashemous, but rather it is in line with essential Christian theology.

Ah, that's why the origional New Testament was illustrated. I always wondered.

 

[spacemonkey]

Ah, that's why the origional New Testament was illustrated. I always wondered.

Yes, some folks may have thought Jesus really was a lamb.

 

[Quiddity]

I didn't say they teach it, I was just saying that I've seen alot of them doing it.

Point taken.

Yet another veiled insult. Who says that I don't understand it, I said I don't BELIVE it verbatim.

What does belief have to do with it? I just hoped that you understand it.

Give me a link where they admit Catholic fallibilty and I will know.

Sure: http://www.catholic.com/library/inquisition.asp
You can find others. Hope that saties your urge to show the evils of RC.

So Constentine could reunify the Roman Empire once again. It was purely POLITICAL.

I guess the fact that his mother was a full fledge catholic had nothing to do with it. Think what you want.

~Victor

 

[Sunstone]

Ah, that's why the origional New Testament was illustrated. I always wondered.

No, but it may have something to do with why Catholic cathedrals, for instance, are full of statues and other art telling biblical stories.