is the islamic faith based on the intention of going to paradise ...

[waitasec]

and not for the sake of doing good for goodness sake ?


this is in response to a same faith debate
in which the OP posed the question;
if you are a good person will you go to heaven?

based on what you said his place would be hell according to islamic teachings.

it is a condition of becoming a muslim and heaven worthy to willingly and knowingly to believe in what we muslims call the declaration of faith (shahada in arabic).

the reason why his good deeds and thoughts and actions will not lead to paradise according to our beliefs is that he did good for 2 reasons:
1. for the sake of doing good
2. for the sake of his beliefs/god which is not Allah.

so based on that if he does good for the sake of doing good then he should not expect a reward from Allah, same applies to muslims.
and for the second point, if he does good for the sake of his non-islamic beliefs/god then Allah will not send him to paradise because he never accepted that Allah is the ony god and that Muhamed is his messenger.

i hope that answers your question.

is this true?

 

[beenie]

It is up to Allah and Allah alone who enters Paradise. No human can ever determine who will go where after death; where did people get the idea that they have a clue who will go where?

I do good acts to make people happy, which in turn makes God happy...the immediate reward I get is that I've made someone happy.

 

[waitasec]

It is up to Allah and Allah alone who enters Paradise. No human can ever determine who will go where after death; where did people get the idea that they have a clue who will go where?

I do good acts to make people happy, which in turn makes God happy...the immediate reward I get is that I've made someone happy.

of course you do...
i believe that all good acts are done for the sake of being good...
it has nothing to do with religious beliefs...

i'm just trying to understand why eselam said what he said. it seems to me that without his faith in allah, he is the type of person who has no moral responsibility...if it were not for the promise of paradise...

 

[beenie]

I'm not clear on why he said what he said either, I was replying so that people realize that Muslims believe that no human being can determine God's decisions.

The only thing I can come up with in defense of eselam's post is that PERHAPS he's speaking of someone who does good deeds out of "pride" and showmanship rather than doing them out of humbleness and genuine kindness. Even then though, we can never truly know what another's true intentions are; that's between that person and God, not us.

 

[waitasec]

I'm not clear on why he said what he said either, I was replying so that people realize that Muslims believe that no human being can determine God's decisions.

The only thing I can come up with in defense of eselam's post is that PERHAPS he's speaking of someone who does good deeds out of "pride" and showmanship rather than doing them out of humbleness and genuine kindness. Even then though, we can never truly know what another's true intentions are; that's between that person and God, not us.

you are too kind and a true defender of good intentions...
but his reason "for the sake of doing good" which i think speaks for itself
we'll just have to wait and see...

you are right that only the person knows why they do the good deeds they do, and i am of the opinion it has nothing to do with gaining favor from the almighty...but hey that's just me...

 

[Fredy]

It is up to Allah and Allah alone who enters Paradise. No human can ever determine who will go where after death; where did people get the idea that they have a clue who will go where?

I do good acts to make people happy, which in turn makes God happy...the immediate reward I get is that I've made someone happy.

I agree, good acts are always good.
But what about all wrong acts we have committed in life, which have brought pain and sadness to others?
Won't such wrong acts prevent us to enter paradise?

 

[Cordoba]

and not for the sake of doing good for goodness sake ?

In Islam there are three main levels of faith:

1- The first basic level (Islam, meaning submission) is to believe in God and practice the 5 pillars of Islam as commanded by God

2- A second higher level is the level of (Iman), i.e. believing in God and the other 5 articles of faith, in addition to practicing the 5 pillars of Islam

3- The third and highest level is the level of (Ihsan or perfection), which is having the first two levels (Islam & Iman) plus the perfection of deeds knowing that God watches each thing we do (always feeling God's presence)

A Muslim believer on his/her path to God is like a bird which has a head and two wings: the two wings which keep us balanced are fear and hope: fear from God's displeasure and hope in His Mercy. As for the head which guides us towards God, it is the love of God

Hope in God's Mercy includes hope that on the Day of Judgment He will admit us by His Mercy to Paradise

So this is one component, but not the only one, and the higher one goes in faith the more one seeks God's love and pleasure by doing good deeds to others and treating them in a good way, as they are God's creatures (believers and non-believers), and God loves that people treat others in a kind way ...

 

[waitasec]

In Islam there are three main levels of faith:

1- The first basic level (Islam, meaning submission) is to believe in God and practice the 5 pillars of Islam as commanded by God

2- A second higher level is the level of (Iman), i.e. believing in God and the other 5 articles of faith, in addition to practicing the 5 pillars of Islam

3- The third and highest level is the level of (Ihsan or perfection), which is having the first two levels (Islam & Iman) plus the perfection of deeds knowing that God watches each thing we do (always feeling God's presence)

A Muslim believer on his/her path to God is like a bird which has a head and two wings: the two wings which keep us balanced are fear and hope: fear from God's displeasure and hope in His Mercy. As for the head which guides us towards God, it is the love of God

Hope in God's Mercy includes hope that on the Day of Judgment He will admit us by His Mercy to Paradise

So this is one component, but not the only one, and the higher one goes in faith the more one seeks God's love and pleasure by doing good deeds to others and treating them in a good way, as they are God's creatures (believers and non-believers), and God loves that people treat others in a kind way ...

are you saying it is impossible to do good for the sake of goodness without
submission, believing and perfection? because i disagree with that.
there are no moral deeds a believer can do that a non believer cannot...

and when you say hope in gods mercy, is that based on how well you performed? again, it seems here salvation is based on performance and hindering the intention of why the good deed was done...
to me the, the intention of a good deed is what shows the level of integrity and self respect a person has...and i don't have faith in god to feel an accountability towards people...

 

[Gharib]

islam does not say that non-muslims or non-believers in god in general cannot be good people or that they cannot do good deeds.

 

[Kathryn]

Faith and works are intertwined for most people who practice a religion. Our faith inspires our works, and our works build our faith.

 

[Gharib]

Faith and works are intertwined for most people who practice a religion. Our faith inspires our works, and our works build our faith.

i agree, ssainhu has said the same thing but on the other thread i believe.

 

[Gharib]

It is up to Allah and Allah alone who enters Paradise. No human can ever determine who will go where after death; where did people get the idea that they have a clue who will go where?

this is where i got the idea from that those who die in a state of disbelief will go to hell:

"Indeed, Allah does not forgive association with Him, but He forgives what is less than that for whom He wills. And he who associates others with Allah has certainly fabricated a tremendous sin." (4:48)

“...But if they had joined in worship others with Allâh, all that they used to do would have been of no benefit to them.” (6:88)

"And indeed it has been revealed to you (O Muhammadr), as it was to those (Allâh’s Messengers) before you: "If you join others in worship with Allâh, (then) surely (all) your deeds will be in vain, and you will certainly be among the losers.” (39:65)

 

[waitasec]

if i did good for the sake of doing good and not for the sake of a better thing,

what is the better thing?

then if a calamity was to befall me then that means i would not have to do any good because whats the point in doing good for the sake of good when you are suffering?

if you can give me an example...
what good deed can cause a terrible loss, lasting distress, severe affliction or a disaster?
are you referring to the afterlife?

to me your perspective doesn't make sense. it limits your ability to do good to doing good only when everything is going well for you.

i disagree. to do good for the sake of good also means to do good when it's the hardest thing to do...not when it's convenient, otherwise what's the point?

do you believe that a man who has no wealth and relies on others to help him could also do good to others? if yes, why? if no, why not?

yes. anyone has time. time spent helping others is more valuable than money.

if it was best to do good for the sake of doing good and to gain nothing from it, then why don't non-muslims (those of your thinking) do deeds that none other than you knows about?

i'm not sure what you mean here? are you saying non muslims cannot do or won't do certain deeds? i wholeheartedly would disagree with that, if that is what you meant.
are you saying why don't non muslims do good deeds in private? if you are, who says they aren't?

have you ever done a deed where no one other than you knew of it appart from the receiver of that good deed ....>snip<

yes. my question to you is, why would you assume my answer would be; no?

no need to call you crazy, you can believe what you wish.
everything that muslims do, we do it to please Allah, he says in the Qur'an to enjoin what is good and forbid what is evil.
the word muslim means 'one who has surrendered to Allahs will'. so when Allah says do good things seeking my pleasure only and not any praise or benefit from the people then that is what muslims must do. and islam shows us ways on how to help people, we do not rely on how we feel and whether we should help someone or not.

here are verses from the qur'an on this matter;

107:1 Have you seen the one who denies the Recompense?
107:2 For that is the one who drives away the orphan
107:3 And does not encourage the feeding of the poor.
107:4 So woe to those who pray
107:5 [But] who are heedless of their prayer -
107:6 Those who make show [of their deeds]
107:7 And withhold [simple] assistance.

93:9 So as for the orphan, do not oppress [him].
93:10 And as for the petitioner, do not repel [him].

but why must one be told to be good if one already knows what the good thing to do is?

a few questions:
1. what are the benefits from doing good for the sake of goodness?

integrity and self respect

2. what are the benefits from doing good for the sake of Allah?

from my perspective, fear of not gaining access to paradise

3. what non-benefit comes out of doing good for the sake of goodness?

sometimes it's inconvenient

4. what non-benefit comes out of doing good for the sake of Allah?

the intention becomes blurry.

 

[waitasec]

Faith and works are intertwined for most people who practice a religion. Our faith inspires our works, and our works build our faith.

some do not need faith in order to do good works...

 

[Kathryn]

some do not need faith in order to do good works...

Faith is an integral part of many peoples' lives. As I said, faith and works are INTERTWINED in their lives. This doesn't mean that they could not do any good works without faith. That would be a ridiculous assertion.

 

[beenie]

Faith and works are intertwined for most people who practice a religion. Our faith inspires our works, and our works build our faith.

i agree, ssainhu has said the same thing but on the other thread i believe.

indeed i did.

Wow. I guess I'm a terrible Muslim, because I do kind acts and good deeds for two reasons (and they're intertwined).

Reason 1 is to help fellow mankind (even if so minor it's in the form of a smile), which in turn, brings reason 2, which is to please Allah...since Allah has prescribed that we treat mankind with kindness.

 

[gnostic]

Some religions, including Islam, where followers have the urge to want to live forever. The allure and the quest for immortal life is far older than the Christian or Muslim concept of the afterlife, as it can seen in Gilgamesh epics and poems in Mesopotamia, and that of the Pyramid Texts in Egypt.

Quite frankly, neither the afterlife nor eternal life appeal to me.

 

[waitasec]

Faith is an integral part of many peoples' lives. As I said, faith and works are INTERTWINED in their lives. This doesn't mean that they could not do any good works without faith. That would be a ridiculous assertion.

indeed i did.

yet you know in your heart of hearts the reason; you do good deed for the sake of good deeds...or is it for the sake of pleasing your god...

my problem here is with intention...it gets blurry.
and i am sure anyone who values their integrity and self respect would want to know why it is they do the things that they do...
for the sake of goodness or because you were told to...

 

[Kathryn]

When I was a child, I loved pleasing my parents (in fact, even as an adult I love pleasing my parents, because they are so appreciative). When I helped my brother with his homework, or took good care of my pet hamster, I did so for a variety of reasons, one of which was that it pleased my parents for me to be obedient.

That doesn't mean that I didn't want to help my brother, or take good care of my hamster. It doesn't mean that without that urge to please my parents, I simply wouldn't have acted irresponsibly. It simply means that pleasing my parents was one of many motivational factors in my life.

Faith works in much the same way.

Also, sometimes, let's just face it, we don't always feel like doing the right thing. We're lazy, or tired, or scared, or intimidated, or confused - we can all get to that stage regardless of whether we embrace a particular faith or not.

It's in THOSE times that faith strengthens those who embrace it and gives us the fortitude to push forward. That's not to say we couldn't do so without faith - but different things motivate different people.

To each his own. We should probably worry more about what motivates us (as individuals) rather than trying to judge what motivates others.

 

[waitasec]

Also, sometimes, let's just face it, we don't always feel like doing the right thing. We're lazy, or tired, or scared, or intimidated, or confused - we can all get to that stage regardless of whether we embrace a particular faith or not.

It's in THOSE times that faith strengthens those who embrace it and gives us the fortitude to push forward. That's not to say we couldn't do so without faith - but different things motivate different people.

To each his own. We should probably worry more about what motivates us (as individuals) rather than trying to judge what motivates others.

exactly!! spot on...