Is the Kingdom of God earthly or heavenly?

[Thief]

1Th 4:16-17:
"For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God ('twill be noisy),
and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.
And so we will be with the Lord forever."​

That is the very loud, very visible resurrection and rapture from the Word of God written. . .which occurs at the end of time.​

And this supports your belief that heaven is in the clouds?

 

[james2ko]

1Th 4:16-17:​

"For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God ('twill be noisy),
and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.
And so we will be with the Lord forever." That is the very loud, very visible resurrection and rapture from the Word of God written. . .which occurs at the end of time.​

Perhaps I could have been a bit more clear. I believe in the resurrection of the dead and the "change" from mortal to immortal for those believers who are still alive at the time of Christ's return. What I do not agree with is the traditional rapturist view of these events. If you want to discuss it, start a thread.

 

[kylixguru]

And this supports your belief that heaven is in the clouds?

Clouds are in the heavens.

The lights God has placed in the firmament of the heavens are unable to shine their light upon the earth below due to darkness causing obstructions.

What are the heavens? The governing powers.
What are the lights in the heavens? The individuals holding governing power.
What are the clouds? Obstructions preventing the governing powers to do their job.
What is the darkness? Confusion, dissaray, chaos, lawlessness, contention, etc.

Is all this is saying is the return of the Savior will be in a time of great darkness and confusion and mankind being in a state of chaos largely disconnected from their governing powers that keeps the social body functioning.

In short, when the fecal matter totally hits the fan for the whole world, expect to hear of an ensign being raised to the nations to come to Zion and build up the Father's Kingdom, which is the "Sun God" Kingdom. Otherwise, if you ignore the calling out of the trumpets He shall sound to gather, you shall be totally overcome by the "Moon God" Kingdom.

Hint: Islam likes the moon and the "Sun God" shall be perfectly willing to allow the "Moon God" free reign over all who reject His Kingdom.

 

[Ben Masada]

The Kingdom of God is neither earthly nor Heavenly. It is esoteric. I mean, within our own selves. Read Luke 17:21.

 

[james2ko]

The Kingdom of God is neither earthly nor Heavenly. It is esoteric. I mean, within our own selves. Read Luke 17:21.

I'm not convinced, Ben..see why here

 

[Sunstone]

The Kingdom of God seems to be neither earthly nor heavenly, but rather in how you perceive. Perception is more fundamental, though, than either belief or thought.

 

[kylixguru]

I'm not convinced, Ben..see why here

Yes, I quite agree. And, when Jesus said "my kingdom is not of this world" he meant that he would not actually function as the king of his kingdom until Day 1 of the "new world". Meaning, there would be a new creation just as Peter was talking about. So, it was a statement of timing. There is nowhere else a kingdom makes any sense than here upon good ole planet earth.

 

[Thief]

Yes, I quite agree. And, when Jesus said "my kingdom is not of this world" he meant that he would not actually function as the king of his kingdom until Day 1 of the "new world". Meaning, there would be a new creation just as Peter was talking about. So, it was a statement of timing. There is nowhere else a kingdom makes any sense than here upon good ole planet earth.

That puts God and the angels.....where?

 

[kylixguru]

That puts God and the angels.....where?

Just as there is more to me than my physical elements.
Planet earth has more to it than just physical elements.
They live within the realm of the consciousness of man.
We are their body collectively. Thus, they live here.
This planet is our home and God's Kingdom is here.

 

[Thief]

Just as there is more to me than my physical elements.
Planet earth has more to it than just physical elements.
They live within the realm of the consciousness of man.
We are their body collectively. Thus, they live here.
This planet is our home and God's Kingdom is here.

So you draw no line between the physical and the metaphysical?

And the angels are standing right behind you?

And the prophets?

And the saints?

And the 6billion people living here in this life, fail to see the 'kingdom'....
for what cause?

 

[kylixguru]

So you draw no line between the physical and the metaphysical?

I simply see how they are connected and how they interrelate.

And the angels are standing right behind you?

I am visited regularly by angels (messengers).

And the prophets?

I am personally acquainted with them.

And the saints?

I am one of these myself.

And the 6billion people living here in this life, fail to see the 'kingdom'....
for what cause?

Pride.

 

[Thief]

I simply see how they are connected and how they interrelate.

I am visited regularly by angels (messengers).

I am personally acquainted with them.

I am one of these myself.

Pride.

And you have noticed the few and far between interactions?
Or perhaps your contact is continual?

And in spite of your self pronouncement...pride is not a problem for you?

 

[kylixguru]

And you have noticed the few and far between interactions?
Or perhaps your contact is continual?

As I see it the interactions, at least on some level, are constant.
Perhaps you mean there are seasons of greater and lesser light being offered to mankind?

And in spite of your self pronouncement...pride is not a problem for you?

Pride is a problem for everyone to deal with.

Pride does a number of things:
It causes some people to make things more complicated than necessary.
It causes some people to consider it all complete nonsense.
It causes some people to consider themselves unworthy.
It causes some people to arrogate themselves into fantasies.
It causes some people to fear to proclaim the simple truths.

As best as I can tell, I have overcome those hurdles. But, alas, there are others that I likely have yet to cross.

 

[Beta]

Pride is a problem for everyone to deal with.
Pride does a number of things:
It causes some people to make things more complicated than necessary.
It causes some people to consider it all complete nonsense.
It causes some people to consider themselves unworthy.
It causes some people to arrogate themselves into fantasies.
It causes some people to fear to proclaim the simple truths.

As best as I can tell, I have overcome those hurdles. But, alas, there are others that I likely have yet to cross.

I like your approach to carnal nature and how to deal with it ! :yes: Few are prepared to see their own faults and fight them.

 

[Thief]

I like your approach to carnal nature and how to deal with it ! :yes: Few are prepared to see their own faults and fight them.

You weren't reading the previous posts.

Jbug is a saint!

Has regular visits from angels....
and he is a prophet.

He has every cause to be proud.

 

[kylixguru]

Jbug is a saint!
Has regular visits from angels....
and he is a prophet.
He has every cause to be proud.

If I may point out a misunderstanding...
I don't recall claiming to be a prophet.
I am simply personally acquainted with them.

The only thing I feel I can take credit for is doing my best to be a saint.
As for myself, I recognize I wouldn't amount to much at all.

 

[Thief]

If I may point out a misunderstanding...
I don't recall claiming to be a prophet.
I am simply personally acquainted with them.

The only thing I feel I can take credit for is doing my best to be a saint.
As for myself, I recognize I wouldn't amount to much at all.

Okay...but is there much difference?
with all that connection...your status would be 'unusual'.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The only thing I feel I can take credit for is doing my best to be a saint.
As for myself, I recognize I wouldn't amount to much at all.

Sincerely, how does one do their best to be a saint or holy one?
Don't all genuine Christians strive to do their best whether called to be a saint or called, so to speak, to be a humble, mild tempered, meek person to inherit the earth after the wicked are gone?
Isa 11v4; Rev 19vs11,15; Prov. 2vs21,22; 10v30; 21v18; Psalm 37 vs11,29,38

As for being a holy one or saint, isn't that for God to call the shot on that?
Not all rule with Christ during his 1000-year reign over earth.
Rev 20v6; 5vs9,10; Daniel 7v18,27
There are also earthly subjects.
-Psalm 72 vs 8-14

So, if there is any doubt at all, then one is probably not called to be a saint , but to be part of humble sheep-like people who will inherit the earth, or the earthly realm of God kingdom, which includes all non-Christians before the time of Christ [Hebrews chapter 11] and the living sheep-like ones of Matthew [25vs31,32] at the time of Jesus 'glory' when Jesus will usher in peace on earth toward men of goodwill.

At Jesus baptism the 'heavens were opened up' to Jesus and he knew his anointing at that time. Those anointed to heaven know that calling at the time of their baptism. Mark 1v10;Matt 3v16.

 

[kylixguru]

Sincerely, how does one do their best to be a saint or holy one?

I consider it a process of spiritual creation. We determine the ideals we wish to live among and have integrity to them as best we can. This is where each of us determine whether we do this among a community of like minded believers or on our own.

Don't all genuine Christians strive to do their best whether called to be a saint or called, so to speak, to be a humble, mild tempered, meek person to inherit the earth after the wicked are gone?
Isa 11v4; Rev 19vs11,15; Prov. 2vs21,22; 10v30; 21v18; Psalm 37 vs11,29,38

The trouble here is I have yet to meet more than a few of what I would consider genuine Christians. There are many of Jesus' words that do not register to them and even though they pray for the coming of the Father's Kingdom, they hardly have a clue what they are looking for to know it when it comes.

As for being a holy one or saint, isn't that for God to call the shot on that?

It is most definitely up to Him to to call the shots on how that is to be determined.

Not all rule with Christ during his 1000-year reign over earth.
Rev 20v6; 5vs9,10; Daniel 7v18,27
There are also earthly subjects.
-Psalm 72 vs 8-14

Going to 'heaven' is having the responsibility of rulership. So, even though not everyone goes to 'heaven', this does not mean there won't be a large number of people who despite not being in 'heaven' have a very delightful existence benefitting from the wise governance of those who shine from the 'heavens' above.

So, if there is any doubt at all, then one is probably not called to be a saint , but to be part of humble sheep-like people who will inherit the earth, or the earthly realm of God kingdom, which includes all non-Christians before the time of Christ [Hebrews chapter 11] and the living sheep-like ones of Matthew [25vs31,32] at the time of Jesus 'glory' when Jesus will usher in peace on earth toward men of goodwill.

When Jesus returns it is on Day 1 of a new creation when the 'light' is divided from the 'dark'. The 'greater light to rule the day' then does the job it was created to do. This is Jesus resurrected and manifesting in the advent of the Father. The 'lesser light to rule the night' shall be the other kingdom that manifests. The Sun God and the Moon God shall have their dominions.

Thus, I predict the Shiloh Messiah from the House of Joseph (Sun God) will be working in conjunction with a very powerful Islamic Khalif (Moon God) that will force the rest of the world into submission that are not naturally drawn to the true Messiah.

At Jesus baptism the 'heavens were opened up' to Jesus and he knew his anointing at that time. Those anointed to heaven know that calling at the time of their baptism. Mark 1v10; Matt 3v16.

His baptism indicated to Jesus that he wouldn't realize a place in heaven until after his current lifetime, which is what baptism symbolizes. Death, burial and resurrection.

Jesus was created on Day 4 to be the greater light to rule the day but He doesn't actually perform that job until He returns on Day 1 of the new creation as the Father. Thus, He yet had a death, burial and resurrection to undergo prior to ascending to the throne.

This is what we are looking for. Because the 'clouds in the heavens' are getting thicker and darker, more and more conditions are becomming favorable for His advent. Those who have eyes surely shall be watching and shall discern Him and shall be drawn to Him. In the meanwhile, the rest of the world shall be totally oblivious to His return.

 

[kylixguru]

Okay...but is there much difference?
with all that connection...your status would be 'unusual'.

The difference is quite significant.

The kind of prophet I have in mind could, like Elijah, call down fire from the heavens. As for myself? I can just talk about it and marvel.