Is the Kingdom of God earthly or heavenly?

[kylixguru]

And your banner reads....'just give me the facts'.

Well I did.

But this last posting of yours indicates a wasted effort.

Wasted in what respect?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

yeah...but you're trying to keep them as one.
The body is no more than a learning event.
It passes.
What stands up...when the body lays down....
is the spiritual body.
The separation must happen.
Otherwise, you follow your body into the box, and the box into the ground.
Eternal Darkness is physically real.

Jesus 'brothers' of 1st Cor 15v50 'put on' immortality once they are resurrected because Jesus 'brothers' have a heavenly inheritance as Joint-heirs with Christs adopted as God's sons. Rev 20v6; 5vs9,10.

Those that are not Jesus 'brothers' [Matt 25v32, 40] do not go to heaven.
Upon death they sleep the deep sleep of death until they are resurrected to live on earth. [John 11vs11-14; Ecc 9v5; Psalm 6v5; 13v3; 115v17; 146v4]

The sheep-like people of Matthew 25v32 are alive at the time of Jesus 'glory' and those sheep can remain alive and keep right on living right into the start of Jesus 1000-year reign over earth when those asleep in the dust of the ground [Daniel 12 vs2,13] will awaken on resurrection morning, so to speak, during Christ's millennial-long day of reigning over earth.
- Psalm 72v8

So instead of eternal darkness they awaken to the light of day that millennial-long day of Christ reign over earth. That does not mean their literal dust has to be resurrected but as Jesus said there would be a recreation.
-Matthew 19v28

 

[Thief]

Jesus 'brothers' of 1st Cor 15v50 'put on' immortality once they are resurrected because Jesus 'brothers' have a heavenly inheritance as Joint-heirs with Christs adopted as God's sons. Rev 20v6; 5vs9,10.

Those that are not Jesus 'brothers' [Matt 25v32, 40] do not go to heaven.
Upon death they sleep the deep sleep of death until they are resurrected to live on earth. [John 11vs11-14; Ecc 9v5; Psalm 6v5; 13v3; 115v17; 146v4]

The sheep-like people of Matthew 25v32 are alive at the time of Jesus 'glory' and those sheep can remain alive and keep right on living right into the start of Jesus 1000-year reign over earth when those asleep in the dust of the ground [Daniel 12 vs2,13] will awaken on resurrection morning, so to speak, during Christ's millennial-long day of reigning over earth.
- Psalm 72v8

So instead of eternal darkness they awaken to the light of day that millennial-long day of Christ reign over earth. That does not mean their literal dust has to be resurrected but as Jesus said there would be a recreation.
-Matthew 19v28

So let's cut to it.....

You're hoping for this life to continue?

And Jesus went which way?

How far do you think He got?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

According to Hebrews 9v24 Jesus got as far as heaven itself to appear before the person or presence of God for us. And so do those that rule with Jesus. -Rev20v6;5vs9,10.

This life [earthly life] will continue for the sheep-like ones of Matthew 25v32,46.

'This life' meaning in the context of 'from the time of verse 31' when Jesus intervenes into mankind's affairs and Jesus, as Prince of Peace, ushers in Peace on Earth toward men [sheep] of goodwill.

In other words, life under peaceful conditions will continue for the meek sheep-like ones.
Life will discontinue for the goat-like ones.
Discontinue because of annihilation or being destroyed forever as Psalm 92v7 says.

Please notice who remain at Proverbs 2vs21,22; 10v30; Psalm 37vs11,29,38; 145v20

 

[Thief]

According to Hebrews 9v24 Jesus got as far as heaven itself to appear before the person or presence of God for us. And so do those that rule with Jesus. -Rev20v6;5vs9,10.

This life [earthly life] will continue for the sheep-like ones of Matthew 25v32,46.

'This life' meaning in the context of 'from the time of verse 31' when Jesus intervenes into mankind's affairs and Jesus, as Prince of Peace, ushers in Peace on Earth toward men [sheep] of goodwill.

In other words, life under peaceful conditions will continue for the meek sheep-like ones.
Life will discontinue for the goat-like ones.
Discontinue because of annihilation or being destroyed forever as Psalm 92v7 says.

Please notice who remain at Proverbs 2vs21,22; 10v30; Psalm 37vs11,29,38; 145v20

If not for your 'literal' insistence....
I might have said you understand.

The kingdom is not of this world.

Look up.

 

[faithofabraham]

For now we are all but dust.
All have sinned, and the price sin pays is death [dust] -Rom 6v23,7.

If Adam had obeyed God, Adam would not have returned to dust.

We are not responsible for what Adam did, so our 'dust' is temporary because Jesus paid the ransom price for our 'dust'. -Matthew 20v28 B.

Except for those of Matt 12v32; Hebrews 6vs3-6, all the rest will be resurrected from the dust of the earth. -Daniel 12 vs2,13.
Revelation [20 vs13,14] mentions resurrected as being 'delivered up' from the Bible hell or 'dust'.

Some to be resurrected to heaven to reign with Jesus over earth.
-Rev 20v6; 5vs9,10
The majority resurrected to life on a paradisaic earth during Jesus 1000 year reign over earth.
-John 11vs11,14; Matthew 19v28

That time on earth all starts at the time of Jesus glory of Matthew 25vs31,32 when the separated living sheep-like people on earth can gain everlasting life on earth without ever having to die because as verse 46 says those living sheep can gain 'everlasting life'. Everlasting life as originally offer to Adam.
and as Rev 21vs4,5 promises there will be: No more death 'dust'.
Death 'dust', our last enemy 'death' will be brought to nothing. 1st Cor 15v26.
Death will be swallowed up [gone] forever. -Isaiah 25vs6-8.

No one dies in heaven, so by praying God's heavenly will be done here on earth, as his will is being done in heaven, doesn't that mean we are praying for the end of death on earth?

Some to be resurrected to heaven to reign with Jesus over earth.
-Rev 20v6; 5vs9,10
The majority resurrected to life on a paradisaic earth during Jesus 1000 year reign over earth.
-John 11vs11,14; Matthew 19v28

curious if you could define between the two. the verses youve listed do not seem to condradict, but agree that no man is resurrected until the 1000 years. pointing more towards no man entering heaven other than he that is in heaven, Jesus.

FOA

 

[URAVIP2ME]

curious if you could define between the two. the verses youve listed do not seem to condradict, but agree that no man is resurrected until the 1000 years. pointing more towards no man entering heaven other than he that is in heaven, Jesus.
FOA

Jesus of course was the first one 'resurrected and ascended' to heaven.

Rev 20v6 mentions a first or earlier resurrection for those called to be in heaven with Jesus. 'First' would mean in time and order of importance because they serve with Jesus as kings and priests. [ kings meaning taking care of governmental responsibilities, and as priests to manage spiritual duties]

Who do they reign over but earthly subjects [Psalm 72v8].
So it is those later resurrected on earth that do not have a resurrection until the thousand years such as the prophet Daniel looked forward. [12vs2,13].
Future tense: there is going to be a resurrection......Acts 24v15

When these two 'resurrection time frames' are close together, or getting closer together, then the ones called to heaven will not spend any amount of time in death, but as 1st Cor 15v52 says in a moment [twinkle of the eye] be raised from the dead to immortal life in the heavens.

Whereas the sheep of Matt 25v32 do not have, so to speak, a heavenly calling but called, so to speak, to remain alive on earth and received the heavenly blessings and benefits from those of Rev 5vs9,10.
Those sheep will be here on earth to start to welcome back the dead that will have an earthly resurrection.

Jesus provides atonement as a way of reconciling mankind to God by undoing the bad effects of sin from Adam. Those death dealing effects are not removed until the thousand years when Satan is bound in the abyss.
Then, our last enemy death will be brought to nothing. -1st Cor 15v26.
Isaiah [25vs6-8] wrote us that death would be swallowed up forever.
That is why Rev [21vs4,5] can say that: death will be no more.
That is the happy climax of Revelation.

 

[kylixguru]

curious if you could define between the two. the verses youve listed do not seem to condradict, but agree that no man is resurrected until the 1000 years. pointing more towards no man entering heaven other than he that is in heaven, Jesus.

FOA

The first to resurrect is Adam and His Bride but that doesn't go so well, as we all know. Thankfully the Son of Man (Seth) redeems His Father and restores Him to His throne. It happened before, it is happening again.

Seems to me I can hear the angels in heaven saying, "We've got to get those pesky Gentiles who fight against God's Kingdom, in the name of Christianity, out of the way first."

Appears to me that Islam just may come in very handy for that job. The USA would fare much better if we turned from our evil ways than to try and fight against those who have been ordained to overcome us due to our iniquity. But we (collectively speaking) rejected what would have been our salvation. The Kingdom of God is coming and if you stand in its way you eventually get smashed.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

If not for your 'literal' insistence....
I might have said you understand.
The kingdom is not of this world.
Look up.

^Look up^ [Luke 21v28] because our deliverance is getting near.

No earthly kingdom [ this world] can bring Peace on Earth.
Only God's heavenly kingdom can stop war.- Psalm 46v9.

Ancient earthly Jerusalem was the seat of government.
Jerusalem ^above^ [Eph 4v26] is now the seat of government.
Those called to heaven reign with Christ in heaven.-[Rev 5vs9,10;20v6]
Blessings and benefits from that heavenly kingdom come down to earth.
-Rev 22v2 come down to all nations as promised to Abraham.
-Gen 12v3; 22vs17,18.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Seems to me I can hear the angels in heaven saying, "We've got to get those pesky Gentiles who fight against God's Kingdom, in the name of Christianity, out of the way first."
Appears to me that Islam just may come in very handy for that job. The USA would fare much better if we turned from our evil ways than to try and fight against those who have been ordained to overcome us due to our iniquity. But we (collectively speaking) rejected what would have been our salvation. The Kingdom of God is coming and if you stand in its way you eventually get smashed.

Is it only gentiles that fight against God's kingdom ?
Cornelius was the first gentile to become a Christian. -Acts 10v1.
First, the way was opened up for the Jewish people to become Christian.
Second, the way was opened up for the Samaritans to become Christian.
Third, the way opened up for the people of the nations [gentiles]

So the 'holy nation' of 1st Peter 2v9 is a 'spiritual nation' without boundaries comprised of people from all backgrounds and cultures out of all nations or countries that have become genuine Christians.

The nations of the world will back the United Nations as a force for Peace and Security. With backing the UN can be strengthened, but the world's religious sector has run afoul playing false to God and his Word.

In the past, such as in the year 70, God used the Roman armies to do his work for him by having the armies turn on apostate Jerusalem and Masada.
So, God will in the future use the political/military world [UN] to turn on the world's false religions including those claiming to be Christian but are Christian 'in name only'.
[Rev chapters 17,18]

In the end of all badness on earth, it will be the 'words from Jesus mouth' that will remove all wickedness off the face of earth.
-Rev 19vs11,15; Isaiah 11v4; Psalm 92v7

 

[Ben Masada]

Before making silly accusations, it might help if you read the link.

Here is the link.

Upon casual reading of this verse, one can conclude that the kingdom of God is here with us now, either in the form of the Church or “in the hearts of men.” As sincere and as noble this belief may be, it does not come from the Bible. To correctly interpret this verse, we need to be reminded who Christ was addressing. The first part of verse 20 gives the answer: " And when He was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, He answered them and said..." Christ was talking to the Pharisees--not to His disciples! The Pharisees asked Him, "When will your kingdom come?"

His answer: " The kingdom of god is within you". Could Christ have meant that his kingdom was within the Pharisees--

men He called "hypocrites" and "blind guides", "who were full of extortion and excess," who were like "whitewashed tombs, which appeared beautiful outward, but...within [were] full of dead mens bones, and all uncleanness" (Matt 23:21, 23-27)?

Have you ever heard about the Golden Rule? That's the one that says not to do unto others what you would not like they did unto you. Would you like if I called you a hypocrite, blind guide, full of extortion and excess, whitewashed tombs and unclean one? I bet you wouldn't. But you claim above that's how Jesus addressed the Pharisees. Do you think the Pharisees liked that kind of judgment? I don't think so. Therefore, Jesus broke the Golden Rule even more than several times.

A careful study will reveal the phrase “within you” is a mistranslation. The New King James margin says, “in your midst.” The New English Bible says, “is among you.” The Revised Standard Version says, “in the midst of you.” Christ was telling these carnal men that His kingdom was in their presence. Christ was referring to Himself. He represented God’s kingdom—His government. While Jesus was a flesh and blood man, He was also the Messiah, born to become a king.

He never sinned or went against His Father’s will. He was the perfect representative of God’s government.

Now, look at what you claim now about Jesus. That he never sinned. As far as I am concerned, to break the Golden Rule is a sin against one's neighbour, and against God for that matter. Would you be satisfied to consider yourself in contradiction with yourself or that Jesus was the hypocrite one? I do not believe that Jesus offended the Pharisees with those words, since he was of the same Pharisaic line. But you do. I believe that this anti-Pharisaic attitude was from the part of Paul because the Pharisees never allowed him to build a single church in Israeli soil. So, he developed a bitter grudge against them. So, what is gonna be, you contradict yourself above or Jesus was being hypocritically judgemental?

 

[Thief]

^Look up^ [Luke 21v28] because our deliverance is getting near.

No earthly kingdom [ this world] can bring Peace on Earth.
Only God's heavenly kingdom can stop war.- Psalm 46v9.

Ancient earthly Jerusalem was the seat of government.
Jerusalem ^above^ [Eph 4v26] is now the seat of government.
Those called to heaven reign with Christ in heaven.-[Rev 5vs9,10;20v6]
Blessings and benefits from that heavenly kingdom come down to earth.
-Rev 22v2 come down to all nations as promised to Abraham.
-Gen 12v3; 22vs17,18.

Then we do agree...the kingdom is not of this world?

 

[james2ko]

Here is the link.

Upon casual reading of this verse, one can conclude that the kingdom of God is here with us now, either in the form of the Church or “in the hearts of men.” As sincere and as noble this belief may be, it does not come from the Bible. To correctly interpret this verse, we need to be reminded who Christ was addressing. The first part of verse 20 gives the answer: " And when He was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, He answered them and said..." Christ was talking to the Pharisees--not to His disciples! The Pharisees asked Him, "When will your kingdom come?"

His answer: " The kingdom of god is within you". Could Christ have meant that his kingdom was within the Pharisees--

Have you ever heard about the Golden Rule? That's the one that says not to do unto others what you would not like they did unto you. Would you like if I called you a hypocrite, blind guide, full of extortion and excess, whitewashed tombs and unclean one? I bet you wouldn't. But you claim above that's how Jesus addressed the Pharisees. Do you think the Pharisees liked that kind of judgment? I don't think so. Therefore, Jesus broke the Golden Rule even more than several times.

A careful study will reveal the phrase “within you” is a mistranslation. The New King James margin says, “in your midst.” The New English Bible says, “is among you.” The Revised Standard Version says, “in the midst of you.” Christ was telling these carnal men that His kingdom was in their presence. Christ was referring to Himself. He represented God’s kingdom—His government. While Jesus was a flesh and blood man, He was also the Messiah, born to become a king.

Now, look at what you claim now about Jesus. That he never sinned. As far as I am concerned, to break the Golden Rule is a sin against one's neighbour, and against God for that matter. Would you be satisfied to consider yourself in contradiction with yourself or that Jesus was the hypocrite one? I believe that this anti-Pharisaic attitude was from the part of Paul because the Pharisees never allowed him to build a single church in Israeli soil.

1. As far as God is concerned, whose opinion I value just a "wee bit" over yours, He found nothing "ungolden" about His Son's rebuke to the Pharisees. see point 4.

I do not believe that Jesus offended the Pharisees with those words, since he was of the same Pharisaic line. But you do.

2. I must admit you're very good at jumping to conclusions. Have you considered the Olympics? . Show me where I made the claim that Jesus offended the Pharisees and I will finally believe something you've written.

So, he developed a bitter grudge against them.

3. Really? I find that strange considering Christ accepted a dinner invitation from these very same Pharisees.

So, what is gonna be, you contradict yourself above or Jesus was being hypocritically judgemental?

4. Neither...

2Co 5:21 For God made Christ, who never sinned, to be the offering for our sin, so that we could be made right with God through Christ. (NLT)

Heb 4:15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.

1Jn 3:5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin.

1Pe 2:21-22 For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps: 22 "who committed no sin, nor was deceit found in His mouth." In verse 22 Peter is actually quoting from Isa 53:9.​

If you want to discuss Jesus' Messiahship, start another thread....Now let's get back on topic....Is the Kingdom of God Heavenly or earthly??

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

.....Is the Kingdom of God Heavenly or earthly??

The kingdom of God has been in existence as long as God Himself. There is no reason at all to believe it will ever move to another place.

If you believe that God's Kingdom is physical, It would be reasonable to also believe it is Located in Heaven.

However there is an equal likelihood that the Kingdom is Spiritual ... In which case God and his Kingdom are one.

If God's kingdom were Earthly The world would have to exist for Ever... This is known to be impossible. As the World and the solar system have a finite life.

 

[kylixguru]

The kingdom of God has been in existence as long as God Himself. There is no reason at all to believe it will ever move to another place.

If you believe that God's Kingdom is physical, It would be reasonable to also believe it is Located in Heaven.

However there is an equal likelihood that the Kingdom is Spiritual ... In which case God and his Kingdom are one.

If God's kingdom were Earthly The world would have to exist for Ever... This is known to be impossible. As the World and the solar system have a finite life.

Just as I am right now composed of both spirit and flesh, so too is the Kingdom of God composed of both spirit and flesh. After my physical body dies, my immortal soul continues to exist. Likewise, when the societal body of the Kingdom of God falls into dissarray and becomes disorganized, its physical death, its immortal soul continues to exist. Just as I go from dust to dust as I experience life in this physical realm, so too does the Kingdom of God go from dust to dust to experience life in this physical realm. Just as my name here is Tom, Dick or Harry, the name this societal body has been given is Adam. He has a birth, life and death just like I do. He has various responsibilities that take Him nearly a thousand years to accomplish. One of them is He must give all the creatures their new names. He is our judge. Is it a single individual person like Tom, Dick or Harry ? Of course not! It is a group of individuals functioning in concert to do the work of bringing in to being a whole new world. Where? Here on planet earth. Our earth also has a spiritual component just as we do. So, there isn't a "somewhere else" to refer to for the Kingdom of God. Adam is in the wheel of things just the same as I am.

 

[Thief]

Just as I am right now composed of both spirit and flesh, so too is the Kingdom of God composed of both spirit and flesh. After my physical body dies, my immortal soul continues to exist. Likewise, when the societal body of the Kingdom of God falls into dissarray and becomes disorganized, its physical death, its immortal soul continues to exist. Just as I go from dust to dust as I experience life in this physical realm, so too does the Kingdom of God go from dust to dust to experience life in this physical realm. Just as my name here is Tom, Dick or Harry, the name this societal body has been given is Adam. He has a birth, life and death just like I do. He has various responsibilities that take Him nearly a thousand years to accomplish. One of them is He must give all the creatures their new names. He is our judge. Is it a single individual person like Tom, Dick or Harry ? Of course not! It is a group of individuals functioning in concert to do the work of bringing in to being a whole new world. Where? Here on planet earth. Our earth also has a spiritual component just as we do. So, there isn't a "somewhere else" to refer to for the Kingdom of God. Adam is in the wheel of things just the same as I am.

The only disarray I see is your posting.

Adam sits in judgment?

And reincarnation is how the kingdom of God is maintained?

 

[james2ko]

The kingdom of God has been in existence as long as God Himself. There is no reason at all to believe it will ever move to another place.

If you believe that God's Kingdom is physical, It would be reasonable to also believe it is Located in Heaven.

However there is an equal likelihood that the Kingdom is Spiritual ... In which case God and his Kingdom are one.

If God's kingdom were Earthly The world would have to exist for Ever... This is known to be impossible. As the World and the solar system have a finite life.

Any scriptural references to support these assertions?

 

[kylixguru]

The only disarray I see is your posting.

Yes, I realize putting Adam at the end and at the beginning throws a lot of people for a loop. Most people think of Adam as a one-time thing and don't realize the pivotal role He plays as one cycle of creation ends and a new one begins.

Adam sits in judgment?

Yes. What else do you think it means for Him to give the new organization of all the immortal souls of mankind their 'new names'. Why does Paul say in the resurrection all things rise up from seed and that the glory of the flesh we partake of is likened unto the very same symbol set as the creation account?

And reincarnation is how the kingdom of God is maintained?

I don't hold to the same understanding as others who talk about reincarnation. Thus, I won't answer yes to your question. But, if you follow me carefully in what I say in my own terms, I can understand how you see similarities to what others call reincarnation.

 

[AllanV]

The bible is about separation from God and immortality.
What needs to change. The mind and heart.
Satan has the world deceived by his power. Where can these powers be seen. The whole word is deceived by Satan.
Observe people are they perfect. They display all the attributes of Satan. It is in the strength and power of the personality in everyone. Test yourself and see how you behave in any situation. How do you talk to people and what is in your mind as you do. Do you think people are picking up how you feel about them. Do you have some idea what others think of you? Where do these clues come from. Are some people best to stay away from?

There is an active power that comes off the heart and mind. This contains everything a person is.
This is where the power of Satan is, his Kingdom.

Jesus is perfect. In an act of faith, a transformation and renewal in the mind, the heart is rent, broken and contrite. a new nature is revealed and God's power is now active from inside.
This is perfection in a human God in man. It is not superficial. This is God's Kingdom.

An individual has to be active in this kingdom to become immortal. There will eventually be a new heaven and a new earth, where all the predatory influences will not exist.
The scriptures are about resurrection and a "here after" not an afterlife.

 

[Thief]

Yes, I realize putting Adam at the end and at the beginning throws a lot of people for a loop. Most people think of Adam as a one-time thing and don't realize the pivotal role He plays as one cycle of creation ends and a new one begins.

Yes. What else do you think it means for Him to give the new organization of all the immortal souls of mankind their 'new names'. Why does Paul say in the resurrection all things rise up from seed and that the glory of the flesh we partake of is likened unto the very same symbol set as the creation account?

I don't hold to the same understanding as others who talk about reincarnation. Thus, I won't answer yes to your question. But, if you follow me carefully in what I say in my own terms, I can understand how you see similarities to what others call reincarnation.

It is now obvious....
you are lost to your own terms.