Is the Mossad responsible?

[Jayhawker Soule]

What about the expanding ongoing zionist settlements?

Some are defensible, others not.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Heres a thought!!! Hamas renounces violence , throws down its weapons ,recognises Israel right to exist, joins a political process of reconciliation,Israel and Egypt ends the blockade the west pours in millions of dollars to rebuild Gaza and we all live happily ever after.

Could it relly be that simple? :yes:

 

[YmirGF]

Could it relly be that simple? :yes:

One problem with this is that if this is done, the Muslim world will have lost their political meal ticket.

 

[croak]

One problem with this is that if this is done, the Muslim world will have lost their political meal ticket.

If it means that the governments in place lose their foothold, well then, I don't mind.

But it's not that simple. The right to exist is one reason. How about the Palestinian right to exist? Is that valid?

 

[kai]

What about the expanding ongoing zionist settlements?

In Gaza?

 

[kai]

Could it relly be that simple? :yes:

Yes it really could.

 

[kai]

If it means that the governments in place lose their foothold, well then, I don't mind.

But it's not that simple. The right to exist is one reason. How about the Palestinian right to exist? Is that valid?

sure its valid.

 

[kai]

How about Israel stops building new (illegal) settlements, allows Gaza to receive necessary supplies (like building materials, gas, food maybe?), and other important matters? Maybe then they could try having a civil sit-down. Of course, that involves not assassinating your opponents in foreign countries in the meanwhile.

Israel has no settlements in Gaza? Like i said If Hamas renounces violence it all cascades from there.
Am I asking for too much? Trust me, when you've got Israel destroying your country right before your eyes, well, peace isn't the first thing on your mind. Maybe a cease-fire, ensuing talks... but peace? That's not an overnight thing, especially in the region. Hamas doesnt want peace they would endorse a ceasefire but not peace.


Also, what right to exist? The right of any state in the world to exist (maybe according to international law) or the right given by God to allow people of a certain religion living all over the world to live in their own state whether they can prove descent or not (I guess people who convert to Judaism can also trace their ancestry to the area — or can people not convert? I think they can, and they have, but correct me if I'm wrong)? Oh, so what if people have papers saying that it's their land? It was ours first! (Although I'm sure there were people before the Israelites, but now I'm just ranting.)

Are you Palestinian? if not ho is ours?

Egypt's made peace with Israel and so if Israel wants to blockade Gaza, I wouldn't be surprised that Egypt does the same, especially because they could be accused of supporting terrorism (which they probably already are at times), their relationship with Israel could suffer, etc. I think people on the Arab side (why just Muslims? I know Christians as well, and there are Arab Jews) don't mention Egypt as much because, as I said, it's tied into Israel's position, and many don't like Egypt's support of Israel anyway, it's a given. Governments do what is in their interest, and try to get away with what they can. (Yes, I am cynical, and of all governments.)
Maybe just maybe Egypt doesnt cooperate with Hamas is the reason for the blockade.

-scratches head- Why do I always feel that I'm ranting on this thread? Maybe I am, maybe not. Maybe I should just read and not reply. xD

Rant on. i have seen worse. No i am afraid as long as Hamas holds the reigns there will be no peace , how would peace benefit Hamas? they would be redundant.

 

[croak]

Israel has no settlements in Gaza? Like i said If Hamas renounces violence it all cascades from there.

The settlements in the West Bank and elsewhere influence what happens in Gaza. The Palestinians are one people; you don't have the Gazans and the West Bank(ers?) and so on.

And there have been periods of non-violence on the Palestinian side, without much changing on the Israeli side. It's been tried. I've been hearing about non-violent protests elsewhere being met with tear gas and rubber bullets.

Are you Palestinian? if not ho is ours?

Sorry, let me clarify:
So what if the Palestinians have papers saying that such and such land is theirs? The Jews were here first, so it's ours (the Jews) by default.

Maybe just maybe Egypt doesnt cooperate with Hamas is the reason for the blockade.

What do you mean? Oh, that Egypt's blockading Gaza because they don't agree with Hamas? I don't disagree with that. I was more going along the lines of: if it benefits the government, they'll go with it. If it benefited Egypt to side with Hamas, I think they would.

Rant on. i have seen worse. No i am afraid as long as Hamas holds the reigns there will be no peace , how would peace benefit Hamas? they would be redundant.

Glad to know I'm not the worst of the worst. xD

Hamas would be redundant, yes. Many movements become redundant. I am hoping if there is some sort of peace, that the majority of Palestinians and Israelis agree upon, that the political parties will follow suit. If not, well... the Palestinians have elections, don't they? Hamas was elected to power (but off the bat the international community was upset that the Palestinians made such a bad choice and disregarded it), and next time it might be someone else. And if they decide to hold on to power against the majority's decision, well, maybe we'll see some in-faction fighting. I don't know.

 

[Sajdah]

Im glad you mentioned that Egypt is part of the blockade but no body on the Muslim side complains about it, they are just being biased to one side, so it is merely a religious reason then a geographical one.

Really what makes you very certain that no Muslim here criticised what was done by the Egyptian government?! Have you give yourself a chance to read how Egyptians view the relationship between Egypt and Israel before posting such claims?!

The settlements in the West Bank and elsewhere influence what happens in Gaza. The Palestinians are one people; you don't have the Gazans and the West Bank(ers?) and so on.

Well said!

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Really what makes you very certain that no Muslim here criticised what was done by the Egyptian government?!

In fact, there are Muslim's committed to a campaign of terror against the Egyptian government much as there are Muslim's committed to a campaign of terror against the Jordanian government. The Muslim Brotherhood is a cancer, and cancers metasticize.

 

[YmirGF]

For what it is worth, my money is edging towards Hezbully being responsible for this and clumsily pinning the "credit" on Israel. To my perspective, had Mossad been responsible, there would have been no evidence whatsoever.

 

[croak]

For what it is worth, my money is edging towards Hezbully being responsible for this and clumsily pinning the "credit" on Israel. To my perspective, had Mossad been responsible, there would have been no evidence whatsoever.

Hezbullah? Why though? Doesn't sound like something they'd do, in my opinion. Sure, there are accusations of them being involved in assassinations in Lebanon and the like, but those targets had more of a Western view. Doesn't seem to add up.

And everyone makes mistakes. We're all human, even assassins. The Mossad will slip up; or is this an example of how they already have?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Hezbullah? Why though? Doesn't sound like something they'd do, in my opinion. Sure, there are accusations of them being involved in assassinations in Lebanon and the like, but those targets had more of a Western view. Doesn't seem to add up.

And everyone makes mistakes. We're all human, even assassins. The Mossad will slip up; or is this an example of how they already have?

Mossad will not care less ... They never admit to anything, nor do their government.
I do not think they even care what was found out afterwards. They only needed security for the few hours to achive the assassination and retire.
From their point of view the operation was a sucess.... Game over.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

It was a well executed, ethical kill.

 

[kai]

If it was Mossad then it was a tactical success but it has exposed the workings to all and sundry which i consider to be sloppy.The Mossad is remarkable considering its size compared to other "agencies" and its ability to strike its enemies seemingly anywhere any time has always been remarkable.

However the more this kind of thing happens, and the fallout from more and more countries being in the negative, the more their operatives ability to work in other countries will become more difficult.


They may become victims of their own "success"

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

If it was Mossad then it was a tactical success but it has exposed the workings to all and sundry which i consider to be sloppy.The Mossad is remarkable considering its size compared to other "agencies" and its ability to strike its enemies seemingly anywhere any time has always been remarkable.

However the more this kind of thing happens, and the fallout from more and more countries being in the negative, the more their operatives ability to work in other countries will become more difficult.


They may become victims of their own "success"

What do you know about their size?
They have agents resident in most countries just like all comparable agencies have.
There are no western countries where their active agents are welcome, any more than British agents are welcome in Israel or the USA... But of course they are always there.

 

[kai]

What do you know about their size?
They have agents resident in most countries just like all comparable agencies have.
There are no western countries where their active agents are welcome, any more than British agents are welcome in Israel or the USA... But of course they are always there.

They are considerably smaller than say MI6 or the CIA. I beleive thay have about 30 to 40 field operatives or Katsa


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katsa


heres a good quote:


Given the relatively scant operational manpower resources available to Mossad, the general rule of thumb has always been, 'never send two when one is enough and never send three when two is enough'."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/8537740.stm

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

They are considerably smaller than say MI6 or the CIA. I beleive thay have about 30 to 40 field operatives or Katsa


Katsa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


heres a good quote:


Given the relatively scant operational manpower resources available to Mossad, the general rule of thumb has always been, 'never send two when one is enough and never send three when two is enough'."

BBC News - Dubai killing shines unwelcome spotlight on Mossad

I would never hold wickipedia as an authority on intelligence matters as it is too easy to manipulate.

The Katsa Are the local intelligence bosses. They control the local agents agents who are often recruited from Jews native to the local population. As Historically there have been Jews living throughout the nations of the world, intelligence gathering becomes comparatively easy.

However it does nothing for how Jewish populations in foreign countries are regarded. Their loyalty to the country in which they hold citizenship is always in doubt. This might well go some way to explaining why Jewish people are so poorly regarded in many countries.

 

[.lava]

It was a well executed, ethical kill.

after all who needs judges, courts and trials


.