Is the Religious Right in America gunning for you?

[SkepticThinker]

What I wonder about is what these religious extremists think about terminating pregnancies of fetuses that have genetic faults. If a fetus tests for a developmental handicap or a problem where the born child would not survive long after birth, are they opposed to ending that pregnancy? If so, what purpose is there to ban these terminations?

And are people aware that baby formula is scarce across the USA? What solutions do the religious right suggest if there isn't enough formula to care for all the extra children that are born in society? And BTW, the anti-abortion members have not explained how all the extra babies born will be taken care of in the USA. Do you not have any answers?

Are you just going to ban abortion and let problems of unwanted babies fill hospitals and THEN realize there is a problem to solve? Don't you care about actual living babies, or not?

And who is going to pay for the health care of all these new babies, especially to poor women?

If poor women are forced to give birth and lack the income to care for a child, what do you propose to help these families and babies? Are you right wing people going to suggest these poor families go to blue states because red states don't want to help solve problems they are causing?

Do you think the super rich megachurches should convert to being orphanages? Where are the unwanted babies going? Many families won't be able to care due to lack of money and time, so your solution is what?

Countless times I have asked pro-lifers how many children they have adopted only to be met with dead silence and tumbleweeds.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Why not call it marriage, why should you get to tell other people who they can and cannot marry? No one is telling you that, show them the same courtesy.

Because it's not.

 

[Wildswanderer]

You know most abortions are done with pills these days, right?

That's the same thing. It's a volunteer miscarriage.

 

[InChrist]

You keep forgetting how God screwed the pooch in that myth. If you read it they did not know right from wrong. The dog has a better knowledge of right and wrong then Adam and Eve did.

The text does not say they didn’t know right and wrong It says they were not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
God did not want Adam and Eve to know evil in the sense of experiencing or participating in it. God did give them clear instructions and warning not to eat from that one particular tree. So they were very aware of the right or wrong course of action. The sin of Adam and Eve was not in attaining knowledge but in rejecting God's wisdom and will in favor of their own.

 

[InChrist]

Those intellect and reason and communication things all require knowledge of good and evil or it's so stunted that it would be childlike.

Then he's cruel and let it happen when it didn't have to. And if he knew it was going to happen, his design was corrupt and flawed from the start.
Which is rather starting, for as illogical and inconsistent that Christianity is, the Religious Right thinks they have the answers and we all need to turn to their Jesus amd be washed. They want to say something like homosexuality is unnatural, but they refuse to acknowledge how introducing free will does not and cannot work with a being who already knows what will happen. It would be no different than if an electric current thought it freely chose where to go even though we can very well describe the whys and hows of the flow of electricity.
If the outcome is known and determined ahead of time this is called determinism and it is the antithesis of free will.

God had to things happen as they did, if His desire was to create beings with freedom to choose and freedom to love. I think endowing freedom to humanity is a high priority with God. I don’t consider it cruel, none of us would even be in existence talking about such things had God nor done things as He did. The outcome of a person’s choice is known, not determined by God.

 

[InChrist]

And I suffer from decades of abuse from parents who should not have reproduced.

I am truly sorry you suffered such abuse for decades. Are you saying your parents should have aborted you? Do you wish you hadn’t been born? I don’t know that abortion would prevent child abuse, though.

 

[InChrist]

Okay. I agree with you on some of these points. I would not be adverse to strictly limiting abortions after 5 months. But no matter what there would still be some legal abortions because pregnancy is a risky situation for the mother and her life may be endangered by the pregnancy and it will need to be ended. Does that sound reasonable?

I hope it does.

And you appear to have fallen for a falsehood, an attempt of an outright lie by the prolife people. Let's say that we agreed to this and it even became a nationwide law. After 5 months (let's call it 21 weeks since pregnancies are usually measured that way and we do not have to worry about February only having 28 days) no more abortions that are not medically justified. How much do you think that would affect the abortion rate? ( and even the Supreme Court has admitted that those cannot be banned). How much do you think that it would affect the abortion rate?

Just give me an answer off the top of your head. I have to admit that I cheated. I looked it up. In fact lets says by some miracle there were no more abortions after 21 weeks. How much would our current abortion rate drop?

I really don’t support abortion at any stage. I do support it if the mother’s life is endangered at any stage, although in the later stages of pregnancy, when the baby’s life outside is viable, there is no reason to abort to kill, rather than do an emergency live delivery.
I also looked up the statistics for abortions after 21 weeks. Since I consider life to begin at conception they don’t seem too pertinent.

 

[Sheldon]

Because it's not.

It clearly is though, you just don't like it. I know gay couples who are married.

 

[InChrist]

Countless times I have asked pro-lifers how many children they have adopted only to be met with dead silence and tumbleweeds.

My husband and I begged a close friend of ours not to have an abortion ( her third one) and offered to adopt the baby and welcome her to be involved in its life. She refused.

I’ve known couples who struggle with infertility and would love to adopt.

Thirty-Six Couples Wait for Every One Baby Who is Adopted - LifeNews.com

 

[InChrist]

If you don't like abortions, then don't have one. A woman must have the right to decide what she does and does not do with her own body.

Except, it’s not only her own body involved. The growing person inside is another unique, individual body.

 

[Sheldon]

Except, it’s not only her own body involved. The growing person inside is another unique, individual body.

No it is not, it is a part of the woman's body, it is attached to the placental wall, and later through an umbilical, it shares an immune system, gets all its oxygen and nutrients directly through the woman's blood, it shares the woman's metabolism etc etc etc..it is not an individual person, nor is it sentient. For most abortions, it is a blastocyst, simply a clump of cells.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The text does not say they didn’t know right and wrong It says they were not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
God did not want Adam and Eve to know evil in the sense of experiencing or participating in it. God did give them clear instructions and warning not to eat from that one particular tree. So they were very aware of the right or wrong course of action. The sin of Adam and Eve was not in attaining knowledge but in rejecting God's wisdom and will in favor of their own.

Sorry, but you do not know that either since the verses do not say that they knew right from wrong. My conclusion comes from context. If you read it you will see that they knew that they did wrong immediately after eating from the magic tree. If something is not stated context is how one interprets literature.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I really don’t support abortion at any stage. I do support it if the mother’s life is endangered at any stage, although in the later stages of pregnancy, when the baby’s life outside is viable, there is no reason to abort to kill, rather than do an emergency live delivery.
I also looked up the statistics for abortions after 21 weeks. Since I consider life to begin at conception they don’t seem too pertinent.

You will be in the wrong as long as you use inappropriate terminology. There is no baby. The Bible does not support it, neither do the sciences.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Well the world is different than 2000 years ago. And frankly I don't see many 'conservative Christians' following Jesus in any way.
And I don't buy the whole morals and politics is different claim. Look at the Old Testament, it is chocked full of political law, all authorized by God. Jesus' whole message was how the self deals with itself and how it relates to others regardless of politics. The thing is in the USA our morals do drive our political decisions. Its just that republican s and the right has such bad morals and ethics. Look at the popularity of trump, that is all you need to know about the failed moral beliefs of the right.

Yes, under the OT Constitution of the Mosaic Law that Law was just for one nation; the nation of ancient Israel.
Jesus and his followers were politically neutral. Unlike ancient Israel, Christians live in all different countries.
So, when a nation's law conflicts with God's Law a Christian chooses to obey God rather than man - Acts 5:29

As far as ' conservative Christians ' if they are Not politically neutral then they are the fake 'weed/tares' Christians.
Jesus warned us at Matthew 7:21-23 that MANY would come in his name but prove false.
The genuine ' wheat ' Christians are politically neutral just as Jesus and his followers were.
So, since Pentecost to 'follow in Jesus way' is to remain politically neutral.
Jesus' name is Not on political ballots, and Jesus is already King of God's kingdom being head of the Christian congregation no matter where located on Earth, and Jesus is the one who will come to establish Peace on Earth.

 

[F1fan]

Countless times I have asked pro-lifers how many children they have adopted only to be met with dead silence and tumbleweeds.

I've known a number of families that host foster kids. Many of these people are committed and do a service.

Most of the religious foster parents I met were not terribly sophisticated and there was heavy Christian ideology in the houses. I'm pretty easy going but me as a free thinker I'd have a very hard time coping in that environment. I was in these houses for work over a series of days.

That's not totally representative because a friend's daughter has a foster kid who is 18. She's very liberal and open minded, and the kid is a good kid, very artsy. I haven't asked any questions but I'm guessing his parents were screw ups and he was rescued. He's going to help me clear out my mom's yard new week.

As far as this families adopting or fostering, well I doubt there is enough to handle to huge influx of children if they ban all abortion, and that will include many children with developmental problems. One reason women abort fetuses is because they are tested and have health problems, and women decide to terminate. Handling these health problems can be very time consuming and costly. It won't be an easy job. Who will step up? What will happen when there is thousands of children who no one wants?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Yes I believe it endorsed taking unruly or disrespectful children to the edge of town and stoning them to death, again that along with murdering someone for unmarried sex, does not suggest to me it is a good metric for morality. Then there is its endorsement of slavery of course. Not indentured servitude, please don't waste my time, Exodus 21 endorses buying and selling and punishing human slaves.
So much for innocence of the unborn, another anti-choicer argument unravels in their own rationale.
Yes I understand the desperate rationalisations apologists use to try and justify genocide, I find them repugnant of course, which again is why I don't find the bible a sound metric for morality. Though the reasoning is of course absurd, since such a deity would have limitless choices, and still thought indiscriminate mass murder was the best option, even pregnant women. Again the anti-choice argument that an embryo, foetus or balstocyst is "innocent" is directly contradicted by this rationale, in its desperate attempt to justify genocide.

You sound as if you are speaking about ' minor ' children _________
How many minor children do you know who are gluttons and drunks ____________
Notice the son mentioned at Deuteronomy 21:20 is about an 'adult son', a 'grown up son', Not a minor son.
A minor child would Not pal around with gluttons for friends - Proverbs 28:7
A minor child would Not behave with drunkenness - Romans 13:13
A minor child would Not be drunk with wine - Ephesians 5:18
The elders of the city were to act as judges before anything was to happen - Deuteronomy 21:21,19
And there had to more then just one witness to the gluttony and drunkenness - Deuteronomy 17:6; 19:15

There is a difference between mass murder and an 'execution' for the sake of the righteous.
The ' sword-like executional words from Jesus' mouth ' is against wickedness - Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-15

 

[F1fan]

Yes, under the OT Constitution of the Mosaic Law that Law was just for one nation; the nation of ancient Israel.

Odd how many far right Christian Americans use if to guide their political agenda and moral intolerance.

Jesus and his followers were politically neutral. Unlike ancient Israel, Christians live in all different countries.
So, when a nation's law conflicts with God's Law a Christian chooses to obey God rather than man - Acts 5:29

No, it's all pretty political to assert the laws of the OT are no longer valid.

As far as ' conservative Christians ' if they are Not politically neutral then they are the fake 'weed/tares' Christians.
Jesus warned us at Matthew 7:21-23 that MANY would come in his name but prove false.
The genuine ' wheat ' Christians are politically neutral just as Jesus and his followers were.
So, since Pentecost to 'follow in Jesus way' is to remain politically neutral.
Jesus' name is Not on political ballots, and Jesus is already King of God's kingdom being head of the Christian congregation no matter where located on Earth, and Jesus is the one who will come to establish Peace on Earth.

Well given how many conservative Christians support and voted for Trump it is an indictment that they are not concerned about ethics and moral in politics, and that means they don't value it in life. You can't split your valuing of ethics and morals in life and claim to be moral.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

.........As far as this families adopting or fostering, well I doubt there is enough to handle to huge influx of children if they ban all abortion, and that will include many children with developmental problems. One reason women abort fetuses is because they are tested and have health problems, and women decide to terminate. Handling these health problems can be very time consuming and costly. It won't be an easy job. Who will step up? What will happen when there is thousands of children who no one wants?

In Scripture, what is a High Crime in God's eyes is to just have an abortion for the sole purpose to get rid of an unwanted child.
Many think the anti-abortion people should be held responsible supporting the unwanted child.

 

[F1fan]

Except, it’s not only her own body involved. The growing person inside is another unique, individual body.

Do fetuses breathe and eat like we observe babies doing?

 

[F1fan]

In Scripture, what is a High Crime in God's eyes is to just have an abortion for the sole purpose to get rid of an unwanted child.
Many think the anti-abortion people should be held responsible supporting the unwanted child.

Well it's a good thing that many Christians cherry pick what they want to follow, and what you value is ignored by other Christians. This is how Christians can do all sorts of immoral things and get away with it. Plus, we live in a secular society so scripture is irrelevant to the law. Of course right wing extremists are trying to change this, meaning we are moving towards an authoritarian theocracy with fewer liberties.