Is the "serpent" God?

[Kodanshi]

Makes sense to me. I just wish that the serpent would have never been identified as Satan in the first place. Thats part of the reason so many people are unecessarily terrified of snakes, and purposefully swerve to hit them and stuff. That whole thing with snakes and satan really grinds me.

I wish there was some other scripture in there somewhere to back up that theory. Have you tried looking for one?

I actually prefer the idea of the serpent as Satan. Perhaps it stems from my love of Black Metal, and the gradual evolution of my thoughts about the imagery used in the music (‘satan = pwnsome, god = teh loserz’ originally, but now advanced to a more metaphysical understanding of the original Adversary), but to me Satan represents the principle of freedom. Sometimes freedom involves rebellion. In the judexian myth, god created Adam and Eve and gave them complete freedom — only to interfere with that freedom by imposing arbitrary restrictions concerning knowledge.

Accordingly, the Serpent (or Satan) acts as a representative for free moral agency, the championing of rational thinking and enlightenment (with a small ‘e’, and hence the link to Lucifer, the light–bringer) over blind and unthinking subservience. Which also makes Eve the first, and greatest, hero(ine) in literature — since without her encouragement Adam would have contentedly remained in his servitude, an unthinking conservative.

 

[godnotgod]

I actually prefer the idea of the serpent as Satan. Perhaps it stems from my love of Black Metal, and the gradual evolution of my thoughts about the imagery used in the music (‘satan = pwnsome, god = teh loserz’ originally, but now advanced to a more metaphysical understanding of the original Adversary), but to me Satan represents the principle of freedom. Sometimes freedom involves rebellion. In the judexian myth, god created Adam and Eve and gave them complete freedom — only to interfere with that freedom by imposing arbitrary restrictions concerning knowledge.

Accordingly, the Serpent (or Satan) acts as a representative for free moral agency, the championing of rational thinking and enlightenment (with a small ‘e’, and hence the link to Lucifer, the light–bringer) over blind and unthinking subservience. Which also makes Eve the first, and greatest, hero(ine) in literature — since without her encouragement Adam would have contentedly remained in his servitude, an unthinking conservative.

Are'nt 'Satan' and 'Jesus' merely polarized personifications of the concepts we superimpose over reality of Good and Evil, but then extended into those of Super-Good and Super-Evil? That is to say, that they are projections of our own egos. In reality, they do not actually exist when the mind is clear, centered, and in balance.

 

[Kodanshi]

In reality, they do not actually exist when the mind is clear, centered, and in balance.

I agree with the rest of your post, but as for the above… When does this happen to the mind in reality?!

 

[godnotgod]

I agree with the rest of your post, but as for the above… When does this happen to the mind in reality?!

If you are seeing things clearly and as they actually are, you recognize the illusory nature of the ego's projections and polarizations. Meditative practices are one way to detach oneself from the state of Identification and to transcend the ego and its machinations.

 

[godnotgod]

The following excerpt may help to clarify some of this for you:

I. APPARENT LOVE OF OTHERS BY PROJECTION OF THE EGO

This is Idolatrous Love, in which the ego is projected onto another being [eg.; "Jesus"]. The pretension to divinity as "distinct" has left my organism and is now fixed on the organism of the other. The affective situation is one in which the other has taken my place in my scale of values. I desire the existence of the other-idol, against everything that is opposed to him. I no longer love my own organism except insofar as it is the faithful servant of the idol; apart from that I have no further sentiments towards my organism, I am indifferent to it, and, if necessary, I can give my life for the safety of my idol (I can sacrifice my organism to my Ego fixed on the idol; like Empedocles throwing himself down the crater of Etna in order to immortalize his Ego). As for the rest of the world, I hate it if it is hostile to my idol; if it is not hostile and if my contemplation of the idol fills me with joy (that is to say, with egotistical affirmation), I love indiscriminately all the rest of the world. If the idolized being rejects me to the point of forbidding me all possession of my Ego in him, the apparent love can be turned to hate.

from ’Zen and the Psychology of Transformation: The Supreme Doctrine’, by Hubert Benoit; Pantheon Books, ISBN 0-89281-272-9

 

[godnotgod]

But the fact remains - within the confines of mainstream Christian theology, "God" punished Himself for the Fall. :yes:

Maybe the 'confines of Christianity' include a corruption of the original story, a corruption which has it that there really was an 'Original Sin', this corruption having originated with the high priests as a means of controlling their congregations via fear for the purpose of extracting monies from them. It all hinges on the idea that God really meant what he said. But that would make God a fool, because we all know exactly what occurs when you place a taboo in front of your children and then specifically instruct them NOT to partake of it.

 

[Nadia Faiazova]

Hi there! Here what is said in the Bible about your question:"So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him." (Revelation 12:9)

 

[godnotgod]

Hi there! Here what is said in the Bible about your question:"So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him." (Revelation 12:9)

Exactly! And here is a good example why the Bible cannot be trusted as a reliable source of information.

Firstly, Revelations was written AFTER Genesis. No mention of any Devil, Satan, or 'dragon' is contained anywhere within Genesis. Something as important as a devil would most surely have been at least hinted at. Nada. It is obvious that the writer of Revelations wished to demonize the serpent. As an added note, the writer of Revelations, John of Patmos, wrote it when exiled to the island of Patmos by the Romans. Hallucinatory mushrooms grow rampant on Patmos. Experts have told us that the descriptions in Revelations are indicative of someone under the influence of hallucinogens.

Secondly, we now know that dragons are mythical and not real, let alone demonic. The Bible is clearly in error.

Thirdly, serpents are neither devils nor dragons! The Bible is a fantasy.

 

[gnostic]

I see that you've revive my old thread.

And one of my more interesting threads.

As in the orthodox version, God forbids Adam and Eve to eat of the 'Forbidden' Fruit. In the next scene, he 'goes away'. Here is where the story takes a different turn. God then reappears to Adam and Eve as a serpent, tempting them, to ensure that they eat of the Fruit! So why would God do such a thing? The 'Forbidden' Fruit is a symbol for Higher Consciousness. Remember that the serpent told Adam and Eve that God did not want them to eat of the Fruit because he was jealous and that they would then be able to 'see as God sees', which is just another way of describing Higher, or God Consciousness. It is the gift of divine union, which is the goal of all religious endeavor, of course. And of course, since this story is just an allegory, what it really boils down to is a way of describing the tricking and dissolution of the thinking mind and realization of one's own divine nature, which is Enlightenment itself.

Now that interesting take on the subject. It sounds very Jungian.

 

[godnotgod]

I see that you've revive my old thread.

And one of my more interesting threads.



Now that interesting take on the subject. It sounds very Jungian.

I find it more than merely 'interesting': I find it cogent and transformative.

I know a few things about Jungian ideas, but am not sure what you are referring to here. Can you demonstrate a connection?

 

[gnostic]

I find it more than merely 'interesting': I find it cogent and transformative.

I know a few things about Jungian ideas, but am not sure what you are referring to here. Can you demonstrate a connection?

I have not read any of Jung's works myself. However, a friend of mine used to interpret many of my dreams, and she interpret them using the Jungian model, and sometimes quote from Jung's books. I think at one time or another, she used the words, "Higher Consciousness" or "God's Consciousness", I don't remember which, because it was over 4 or 5 years ago.

 

[Otherright]

This is just a little theory I have.

In Genesis, there is a serpent that talk and dupe Eve into eating the fruit that God forbidden.

Christians have equated this serpent to Satan, even today.

There is no direct link between the serpent and Satan. Satan is never named, in this episode. In fact, he (Satan) is never named in the Torah (Genesis, Exodus, Numbers, Leviticus and Deuteronomy), not even in his later incarnation of Devil, Lucifer, etc.

My theory is that the serpent is not Satan, but God.

I don't think God wanted to Adam and Eve to stay in the garden, and he tested them. He deliberately put the tree there, knowing that they would fail, even though he had warned Adam against eating it.

I don't think the serpent was Satan, but God.

That's an interesting theory. I have a question though. Do you get along well with your father? Do you trust him?

 

[gnostic]

That's an interesting theory. I have a question though. Do you get along well with your father? Do you trust him?

Depends on who you mean by "father". If you're talking about my natural father, good and I trust him. If you're talking about God, whom Jesus called Father, there's no relationship because I am quite skeptical that he even exist, so how can I have relationship or trust God if I can't see, hear or talk to him?

Do you trust and get along with your father?

What do these questions have to do with anything with this thread, if I may ask?

 

[NeedingGnosisNow]

God is God. the demiurge (satan) created the world. then he created humans with the help of Sophia (to give them life) cause he couldnt do it. he hated humans after that because he knew they would grow more powerful than him if they gained gnosis or knowledge so he tried to trap them in the garden. God sent Jesus in the form of a snake to tell Adam and Eve to eat the fruit.

 

[godnotgod]

God is God. the demiurge (satan) created the world. then he created humans with the help of Sophia (to give them life) cause he couldnt do it. he hated humans after that because he knew they would grow more powerful than him if they gained gnosis or knowledge so he tried to trap them in the garden. God sent Jesus in the form of a snake to tell Adam and Eve to eat the fruit.

I see. So God and the Demiurge had a secret pact, privy to which only a handful of humans have access to.

See, long before the world was created, God and the Demiurge got together and said: 'Now this is how it's gonna be, see! You make it look like you really, really mean it; just don't let on to them, and together we'll play it up big, wink, wink.

The Buddha is many times seen holding up one hand, palm outward. This is called a mudra. What he is actually saying by this gesture, is: "Fear Not. What you are witnessing, as horrible as it may seem, is just One Big Act."

It is said that if you come face to face with the Devil, do not fear him, but rather, compliment him on the quality of his illusion.

Eating of the 'Forbidden Fruit' will open your eyes and impart the vision to you for you to know and understand the difference between the illusion and reality.

 

[NeedingGnosisNow]

I see. So God and the Demiurge had a secret pact, privy to which only a handful of humans have access to.

See, long before the world was created, God and the Demiurge got together and said: 'Now this is how it's gonna be, see! You make it look like you really, really mean it; just don't let on to them, and together we'll play it up big, wink, wink.

The Buddha is many times seen holding up one hand, palm outward. This is called a mudra. What he is actually saying by this gesture, is: "Fear Not. What you are witnessing, as horrible as it may seem, is just One Big Act."

It is said that if you come face to face with the Devil, do not fear him, but rather, compliment him on the quality of his illusion.

Eating of the 'Forbidden Fruit' will open your eyes and impart the vision to you for you to know and understand the difference between the illusion and reality.

Sophia created the demiurge without Gods knowledge. she wanted to have offspring after she saw GOD and Barbelo have Jesus

 

[gnostic]

I see. So God and the Demiurge had a secret pact, privy to which only a handful of humans have access to.

See, long before the world was created, God and the Demiurge got together and said: 'Now this is how it's gonna be, see! You make it look like you really, really mean it; just don't let on to them, and together we'll play it up big, wink, wink.

The Buddha is many times seen holding up one hand, palm outward. This is called a mudra. What he is actually saying by this gesture, is: "Fear Not. What you are witnessing, as horrible as it may seem, is just One Big Act."

It is said that if you come face to face with the Devil, do not fear him, but rather, compliment him on the quality of his illusion.

Eating of the 'Forbidden Fruit' will open your eyes and impart the vision to you for you to know and understand the difference between the illusion and reality.

Wow!

Where did you get this information from? It is certainly not from Gnostic literature.

 

[javajo]

My theory is that the serpent is not Satan, but God. I don't think God wanted to Adam and Eve to stay in the garden, and he tested them.

The Serpent was not God. James 1:13 says: Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man. The Devil is called that old serpent in Revelation 12:9 and again in 20:2, and is the father of lies in John 8:44, and "Yea, hath God said?" was the first lie told to a human at least. In Ezekiel 28:13 in a passage many Christian scholars believe is about Satan, it says, Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God...So this may indicate the Serpent was possessed by Satan in the Garden.

 

[godnotgod]

The Serpent was not God. James 1:13 says: Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.

So when God told man NOT to eat of the Forbidden Fruit, He fully expected obedience? If you placed a mystery box in your child's room, and told him NOT to open it, what do you suppose the first thing he will do when you leave the room? If God did not want Adam & Eve to eat of the Forbidden Fruit, he would never have placed it in their paths. Besides, whatever happened to the Forbidden Fruit tree? It did not seem to have survived evolution.


The Devil is called that old serpent in Revelation 12:9 and again in 20:2, and is the father of lies in John 8:44, and "Yea, hath God said?" was the first lie told to a human at least. In Ezekiel 28:13 in a passage many Christian scholars believe is about Satan, it says, Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God...So this may indicate the Serpent was possessed by Satan in the Garden.

This is what Rev 12:9 actually says:

9 The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

This what Rev 20:2 actually says:

2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.

In both cases, it is a DRAGON that is also a SERPENT, SATAN, or a DEVIL. First of all dragons, as we all now know, DO NOT EXIST. So if dragons do not exist, then no dragon could have been a serpent, satan or a devil, or anything else for that matter. All we know for certain is that serpents exist. Dragons, Satans, and Devils do not exist, or have you ever experienced any of them yourself?

Secondly, dragons are portrayed as MUCH, MUCH larger than mere serpents, in the class of dinosaurs.

Thirdly, if Adam and Eve had been dealing with a dragon, Genesis would surely have made an issue of this. The fact is, however, that no mention of any dragon, Satan, or devil is to be found in the Genesis story. These images are added LATER in Revelation, which, by the way, is written by John of Patmos, who was exiled to the island of Patmos by the Romans. Hallucinatory mushrooms grow rampant on Patmos, and it has been observed that the descriptions found in Revelation are consistent with someone who is under the power of hallucinatory mushrooms.

*****

 

[godnotgod]

Sophia created the demiurge without Gods knowledge. she wanted to have offspring after she saw GOD and Barbelo have Jesus

The Gnostic God is not all-knowing?