tumbleweed41
Resident Liberal Hippie
Zionism? Freemasonry? Fascist?
Hey, I agree, the USA has a tarnished history. But I think the point here is to get away from the unfounded conspiracy theories and the rewriting of history. Not adding to it.
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Is the term "Judeo-Christian" in describing America's values simply political correctness?
- Thread starter -Peacemaker-
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Hey, I agree, the USA has a tarnished history. But I think the point here is to get away from the unfounded conspiracy theories and the rewriting of history. Not adding to it.
Songbird
She rules her life like a bird in flight
It's impossible to navigate discussions when much of language is hijacked and propagandized, causing emotional reactions to words instead of utilizing actual definitions. Judeo-Christian values, family values, socialism, capitalism, liberal agenda, right or left wing, - they're identifiers of which political party you support more than descriptions of anything. Who cares if Christian values are actually Christian?! As long as you support the term you've identified with whom you've aligned yourself.
Caladan
Agnostic Pantheist
I can see that. It's almost like saying: 'America is for the Christians!' as if Jewish participation in American society is a mortal threat to the soul of the nation.
And while we are at it, so what if Jews are successful? what people don't want to be successful? isn't it what America is about? to take the challenge and reach personal success? since when are American Jews excluded from being successful in their own country?
Songbird
She rules her life like a bird in flight
That may be exactly the sentiment. I never thought to phrase it like that, but it makes sense, thinking about how defensively and fearfully some have acted.
You got me! I can't figure out what the problem is.
Malcolm Gladwell had an interesting theory about why Jewish communities developed a strong work ethic, in Outliers. I can't remember the details, but Amazon said:
"In this stunning new book, Malcolm Gladwell takes us on an intellectual journey through the world of "outliers"--the best and the brightest, the most famous and the most successful. He asks the question: what makes high-achievers different?
His answer is that we pay too much attention to what successful people are like, and too little attention to where they are from: that is, their culture, their family, their generation, and the idiosyncratic experiences of their upbringing. Along the way he explains the secrets of software billionaires, what it takes to be a great soccer player, why Asians are good at math, and what made the Beatles the greatest rock band. "
Amazon.com: Outliers: The Story of Success (9780316017923): Malcolm Gladwell: Books
If Gladwell started a cult, I wouldn't join, but I'd donate. I'd donate.
Songbird
She rules her life like a bird in flight
That may be exactly the sentiment. I never thought to phrase it like that, but it makes sense, thinking about how defensively and fearfully some have acted.
You got me! I can't figure out what the problem is.
Malcolm Gladwell had an interesting theory about why Jewish communities developed a strong work ethic, in Outliers. I can't remember the details, but Amazon said:
"In this stunning new book, Malcolm Gladwell takes us on an intellectual journey through the world of "outliers"--the best and the brightest, the most famous and the most successful. He asks the question: what makes high-achievers different?
His answer is that we pay too much attention to what successful people are like, and too little attention to where they are from: that is, their culture, their family, their generation, and the idiosyncratic experiences of their upbringing. Along the way he explains the secrets of software billionaires, what it takes to be a great soccer player, why Asians are good at math, and what made the Beatles the greatest rock band. "
Amazon.com: Outliers: The Story of Success (9780316017923): Malcolm Gladwell: Books
If Gladwell started a cult, I wouldn't join, but I'd donate. I'd donate.
Oh! I remember he attributed successful sports players to age cutoffs. He did a detailed study of Canadian hockey players who made it to the professional level and found that almost every single one was on the older end of the school year - that is, when they were seven, eight, nine years old, their birthdates determined their success in little leagues. At that age, being six to eleven months older than a peer makes a difference developmentally. And kids who shine at those stages are given more opportunities, more coaching, more support.
And Gladwell attributed logical linguistic structure as one major reason for Asian math performance. He had fascinating examples, including how young children learn to count much earlier in Asian countries because the spoken and written words for their numbers are short, easy, and logical.
Hmmm........what think you of Revoltingo-Songbirdian values?
gnomon
Well-Known Member
That's not even close.
I'm going to take a shot at that question, even though I'm not a scholar of the subject, but merely because it's a question that's interested me for some time.
Based on what little I've read, my guess is the political values of the Founders owed at least as much to the values they derived from the European Enlightenment, and to the values they developed due to their practical political experience (especially, their experience in the colonial legislatures) prior to founding the country, as their values owed to Christianity and/or Judaism. That's just the Founders, though. After them, I would guess that values derived from Christianity and Judaism probably played a mostly increasing role in shaping the country, relative to the values of the Enlightenment.
But if you are really going to look at the sources of American political values, then somehow ethnic values should be taken into account, too. For instance, the Italian immigrants who arrived in the late 1800s, early 1900s had somewhat different values than, say, the German immigrants who had arrived a bit earlier -- although, in most cases, both were Christian, and in some cases, both were Catholic.
Then again, it might seem like a quibble, but most values -- or at least most morals -- seem to have an ultimate foundation in inherent human nature. That would hardly be worth mentioning except, perhaps, for the reason that people often enough ascribe to other sources, such as personal philosophy, religion or ethnic group, values that they were born with more or less because they are human.
Last, some folks have argued that America derives some of its political values from sources not yet mentioned -- such as the from the experience of settling the frontier. I'm not so sure about that, but I guess it's a possibility.
Having said all of the above, it seems to me simplistic to assert that America is a Christian nation. Instead, Christian values, such as they are, are at most merely one of several sources of American political values. At least, that's my guess.
It might also be worth mentioning that certain aspects of the American federal style government were inspired by the Iroquois Confederation. (This is also true of the Canadian Federation)
Levite
Higher and Higher
The second one is not Zionism.
It's also useful to remember that America was founded over a hundred years before Zionism became a formal movement, and over fifty years before it ever even gained much momentum among the Jewish communities of Europe.
F0uad
Well-Known Member
I am sorry to say this but its not a ''Conspiracy''
Its well known that the First fathers were Masons
And its also well know that America is becoming a Fascist state.
As for Zionism i think America has the same mentality at the time that they are superior to all.
F0uad
Well-Known Member
Zionism is defined as two ways as i said one is Nationalism and one refers to have a free society like i said before ''Thinking your superior'' is a thing that involves a Nationalism idea.
The Prieuré de Sion, translated from French as Priory of Sion, is a name given to multiple groups, both real and fictitious. The most controversial is a fringe fraternal organisation, founded and dissolved in France in 1956 by Pierre Plantard. In the 1960s, Plantard created a history for that organisation, describing it as a secret society founded by Godfrey of Bouillon on Mount Zion in the Kingdom of Jerusalem in 1099, conflating it with a genuine historical monastic order, the Abbey of Our Lady of Mount Zion, which is devoted to installing a secret bloodline of the Merovingian dynasty on the thrones of France and the rest of Europe.
More can be found on wikipedia.
The First Central Banks and ''Banks'' in general were created and founded by Jewish people ''Rockefeller, The Astor, The Rothschild and more''
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Levite
Higher and Higher
The Priory of Sion has nothing to do with Zionism. Any implications to the contrary are conspiracy theories, pernicious and specious.
Jews do not control banks, that is a another conspiracy theory, and false.
Also, John D. Rockefeller was a Baptist, and John Jacob Asor was German Lutheran Reformed.
The only Jews in that list are the Rothschilds. John D. Rockefeller and John Jacob Astor were both Protestant Christians.
F0uad
Well-Known Member
I am not talking about there religion but nationality if they were ''really'' Jewish they would never run ''central'' banks nor banks with interest at the first place. As for Rotschild and Rockefeller they have both Jewish ancestors and there whole family-line pre-dates America.
F0uad
Well-Known Member
Says you.
I never said Jews do control banks i said the first bank's are you afraid to do some a little research on the persons i mentioned before claiming anything to be false.
Ps: I am talking about nationality not religion
Virtually anyone who lived 2,000 years ago who survived to have children, and whose children survived to have children, is an ancestor of every single person living on Earth today. We all have Jewish ancestors.
F0uad
Well-Known Member
First of all i was talking about there Family agenda i was not pointing out there ''Ancestors'' they all were Bankers (atleast the guys) and they do control almost each central bank in the World.
Secondly i do not see how people are ''related'' to Jewish people for example i am original a Berber (Amazigh) from North-Africa and my ''Race'' has a history that pre-dates Egyptians and Jews.
Thirdly This is going off-topic so lets stop talking about banks
What evidence can you show that the Rockefellers or Astors are of Jewish decent?
F0uad
Well-Known Member
Its not that i have exact proof but i have seen documentation of them offcourse not based on these so called ''Conspiracy theories'' but rather describing history and the start of the Central Bank in America i have never seen one from Astors though but they are related to the Rotchild's in the family tree.