Is the term "Judeo-Christian" in describing America's values simply political correctness?

[Poisonshady313]

Why do people who suspect Jews of having nefarious world-domination plots also tend to take extremely conservative views of homosexuals and women? I'm genuinely curious.

Here's my guess...

Because the view of Jews as corrupt and manipulative, and fear of their influence as "Judaizers" has roots in early Christianity.

Take a look.

Judaizers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You'll notice names like Paul, Marcion, John Chrysostom, Martin Luther, etc...

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Christianity's Old Testament is its own deeply biased reading of often questionable translations of Jewish texts. And their Old Testament is incomplete, as it fails to take account of the Oral Torah.

Whether accurate or not (and I think you seriously overreach) this thread is not about a Christian interpretation on the Tanakh but about an antisemitic interpretation of the role of Jews in American society. Moving from an opposition to antisemitism to an attack on Christianity simply muddies the issue in what I believe to be an deeply troubling manner.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Because the view of Jews as corrupt and manipulative, and fear of their influence as "Judaizers" has roots in early Christianity.

Stop yourself. :slap:

 

[Poisonshady313]

Stop yourself. :slap:

I'm not resistant to criticism. But please be constructive.

What did I say that was wrong? Why is it wrong?

 

[-Peacemaker-]

Upon reflection, I realize I owe our Jewish brothers and sisters an apology for the accusatory tone in some of my posts. Suspicions do not equal facts. Regarding the usage of "Judeo-Christian", for the sake of people's protection it would be best not to point fingers or speculate on motives. People of all backgrounds use the term "Judeo-Christian" so all share in the blame of its usage. I believe the term paints a misleading picture about the foundation of this country, the country my forefathers helped build. It's a sensitive issue for me because the history of this country is the history of my ancestors. My very identity is wrapped up in this issue. I believe the term's usage rewrites history, whether intended or not. We're all in this together though, so let's try to make it work. I love all you guys, even though I know I don't always show it as much as I should. Peace.

 

[tumbleweed41]

... People of all backgrounds use the term "Judeo-Christian" so all share in the blame of its usage. I believe the term paints a misleading picture about the foundation of this country,...

On this, we can agree.

 

[Shermana]

To be fair, people of Ashkenazi Jewish descent are well-documented to be overrepresented in many influential areas of society. But whatever conclusion is meant to be drawn from that is unclear.

Might have something to do with Ashkenazis having on average 30-40 points higher I.Q. than the statistical global average. Just sayin'.

http://harpending.humanevo.utah.edu/Documents/ashkiq.webpub.pdf
http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/culture/features/1478/
http://ieet.org/index.php/IEET/more/4828

A Jewish average IQ of 115 is 8 points higher than the generally accepted IQ of their closest rivals—Northeast Asians—and approximately 40% higher than the global average IQ of 79.1 calculated by Richard Lynn and Tatu Vanhanen in IQ and Global

People should be happy to have the provenly, statistically most intelligent Ethnicity in so many positions of leadership.

 

[Shermana]

Also, the entire American revolution would have likely failed had it not been for the wealthy (Jewish) Haym Salomon giving practically everything he owned to keep Washington's army supplied, he died penniless for the sake of the country.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Also, the entire American revolution would have likely failed had it not been for the wealthy (Jewish) Haym Salomon giving practically everything he owned to keep Washington's army supplied, he died penniless for the sake of the country.

What!! You mean it was not just our WASP forefathers!!

 

[Shermana]

Yep, and I should also mention Francis Salvador who gave more than just his fortune for the Revolution, got scalped by British-allied Natives after fighting in several battles.

Francis Salvador - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[jargin]

America was founded by Secularists, Agnostics and Atheists for the most part. The Judeo-Christian values that the OP speak of are basically the set of values put forth in commonplace American society in the 1950's in a religious revival era of American History in which "In God We Trust" appeared on money replacing E Pluribus Unum and the official motto of the country became "In God We Trust". Anyone claiming that America was founded on these ideals is completely wrong and the people trying to establish these ideals over any other religious or secular ideals in American society are merely people pushing their religion to the forefront of political or ideological discourse.

 

[Shermana]

One more thing, besides the fact that there were a few Muslims like Peter Salem who had some significance as well in the Revolutionary battles (And Muslim-Morocco was the first country to acknowledge and recognize the USA) one of Jefferson's lesser-known underappreciated accomplishments was his efforts against the Anglican grip over Virginia. If anything, one could say that the country was founded AGAINST "Christian values" at the time.

Thomas Jefferson and religion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Before Jefferson fixed the situation, a Christian was not allowed to question the Trinity in general or be Catholic at all if he wanted to run for office, and the Anglican Church was getting Tax subsidies that no other church got. If anything, many of the early "Christians" it seems were entirely against the concept of religious freedom in America. Was the country truly established on "Christian values" or was it just that most of the population were "Christians"?

The Presbyterian, Baptist and Methodist churches did not receive tax support. As Jefferson wrote in his Notes on Virginia, pre-Revolutionary colonial law held that "if a person brought up a Christian denies the being of a God, or the Trinity ...he is punishable on the first offense by incapacity to hold any office ...; on the second by a disability to sue, to take any gift or legacy ..., and by three year' imprisonment." Prospective officer-holders were required to swear that they did not believe in the central Roman Catholic doctrine of transubstantiation

.

As the above poster mentions, the "Christian values" concept of America is mostly a "Religious revival" reaction and a modern spin on its history.

 

[F0uad]

From my reading, the term came into prominent use in the United States during the 1940s. Is this country really built on Jewish values? How many Jews helped write the Constitution or sign the Declaration of Independence? While we were a fledgling republic, how often did rabbinical teachings serve as the backbone of our country's morals? Obviously, what Christians call the Old Testament, which aside from some translation variations is known as the Hebrew Bible, was a huge factor in our country's development. However, it was read and interpreted from a Christian perspective. Is the term "Judeo-Christian" simply an attempt to appease the small but very powerful Jewish minority in America?


edit: Upon reflection, I realize I owe our Jewish brothers and sisters an apology for the accusatory tone in some of my posts. Suspicions do not equal facts. Regarding the usage of "Judeo-Christian", for the sake of people's protection it would be best not to point fingers or speculate on motives. People of all backgrounds use the term "Judeo-Christian" so all share in the blame of its usage. I believe the term paints a misleading picture about the foundation of this country, the country my forefathers helped build. It's a sensitive issue for me because the history of this country is the history of my ancestors. My very identity is wrapped up in this issue. I believe the term's usage rewrites history, whether intended or not. We're all in this together though, so let's try to make it work. I love all you guys, even though I know I don't always show it as much as I should. Peace.

I think the Establishment of America is based on Freemasonry and Zionism, when did America ever applied the Golden-Rule, ''Love thy neighbour'' or ''Thy should not murder'' sets of rules.

I don't see how its a sensitive issue because America was founded by killing over 200million natives and reducing its population to 2%. If its sensitive it should be sensitive to them. The Founders did make certain rules that were nice for example: Limit the government, don't go to war with a declaration of war, freedom of religion. But do we see these rules applied? :no:

I think America is becoming more of a Fascist state where Big-Zionist Banks and Corporations are taking control of the country ''if not'' the whole world.

 

[Shermana]

I doubt that America is or ever was Zionist. The US govt was mostly cold to the idea of the Israeli state until LBJ, and even then the relationship was never overwhelmingly pro-Zionist, and in recent years its obvious that the government is not fully in Israel's interest. But you are right that the USA is now very "Fascist" in definition of the government servicing itself to Big business interests. It was definitely based on Masonic principles, but back then Masonry was much different, one of Washington's other struggles was keeping rival-Mason-type interests out of the American lodge system, and after he was gone, the Masonry in America became much different.

 

[F0uad]

I doubt that America is or ever was Zionist. The US govt was mostly cold to the idea of the Israeli state until LBJ, and even then the relationship was never overwhelmingly pro-Zionist, and in recent years its obvious that the government is not fully in Israel's interest. But you are right that the USA is now very "Fascist" in definition of the government servicing itself to Big business interests.

I have always learned there are two definitions of Zionism

1. Is that derives from Zion that people have a right to have a free country.

2. That people see them above others as superiors.

If the second one is not Zionism then i would remove the name Zionism but i still belief that Americans see themselves as ''Superior'' to the rest of the world. I would agree with the Masonic development but even the most early teachings of Masonic seemed always bad in my eyes. If i had to choose between the America now or a America following strict Jewish law i would go for the Jewish-Law.
Hence i would even promote it.

Its not only being a facist state by its economies policy's or foreign policy's but also by passing bills that are un-human for example the Patriot act and the NDAA recently therefore becoming a police-state in its extreme also.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Upon reflection, I realize I owe our Jewish brothers and sisters an apology for the accusatory tone in some of my posts. Suspicions do not equal facts. Regarding the usage of "Judeo-Christian", for the sake of people's protection it would be best not to point fingers or speculate on motives. People of all backgrounds use the term "Judeo-Christian" so all share in the blame of its usage.

Pathetic rubbish.

I believe the term paints a misleading picture about the foundation of this country, the country my forefathers helped build. It's a sensitive issue for me because the history of this country is the history of my ancestors. My very identity is wrapped up in this issue. I believe the term's usage rewrites history, whether intended or not. We're all in this together though, so let's try to make it work.

From the ubiquitous Wikipedia:

Judeo-Christian is a term used in a historical sense to refer to the connections between the precursors of Christianity and Rabbinic Judaism in the Second Temple period. The term is also used in the United States as part of American civil religion since the 1940s to refer to standards of religious ethics said to be held in common by Judaism and Christianity, for example the Ten Commandments or Great Commandment. [emphasis added - JS]

The term "Judeo-Christian" rewrites nothing. Least of all is it intended to threaten your fragile need to wrap up your identity in some Judenrein history.

We're all in this together though, so let's try to make it work. I love all you guys, even though I know I don't always show it as much as I should. Peace.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Might have something to do with Ashkenazis having on average 30-40 points higher I.Q. than the statistical global average.

Which is entirely irrelevant to the antisemitic phobia about the term Judeo-Christian. This pathetic "we're better than you" retort serves only to feed the sickness.

You've childishly rushed in to become part of the problem.

 

[Shermana]

Which is entirely irrelevant to the antisemitic phobia about the term Judeo-Christian. This pathetic "we're better than you" retort serves only to feed the sickness.

You've childishly rushed in to become part of the problem.

You've childishly ignored the very reason why I even posted that and what I was specifically responding to. It makes perfect sense as to why we're "overrepresented". It's not really about "We're better than you", it's "Were more capable than most and that's why we're overrepresented'. When someone points out the very true fact that we are in fact overrepresented in most intellectual fields, how do you respond? Accuse them of being anti-semetic? That's not childish of course.

If pointing out our vastly higher I.Q. difference is "becoming part of the problem", then I'd call that cowardly self-loathing. If someone wants to hate us for pointing this out, that's their problem. If you get worried about them having a problem with the facts in response to their accusations, that's your problem.

If an Asian American said to me "There's a reason why we're overrepresented in the maths and sciences" I'd say "youre right'. I wouldn't cow tow to PC happy sappy whining.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Accuse them of being anti-semetic? That's not childish of course. If pointing out our vastly higher I.Q. difference is "becoming part of the problem", then I'd call that cowardly self-loathing.

just wanted to capture that for posterity

 

[Caladan]

I'm not sure anyone went into detail regarding this, but isnt the term Judeo-Christian itself originated and is promoted by Christians?

another question is. Are American values truly Christian? is it truly a Christian country? it may have many Christians, and also a contributing Jewish sector. Therefore we should ask why would anyone aim to exclude one American social sector?