Is There Anyway To Prevent WW3?

[sayak83]

(quote)
Hi Sayak
Sounds like the dark ages all over again... wanna burn Bible readers at the stake , too?

(tongue in cheek)

peace

Nah. Just debunk. Once the delusions are exposed as fantasies, they will have no power to move large number of people to action.

 

[james bond]

(quote)

Hi

I didn't ask you WHEN you thought Bible prophecy would be fulfilled, I asked if you believe that Bible prophecy will be fulfilled.

Ignoring the reality doesn't stop it from coming to pass.

#headinthesandsyndrome

bottom line: "fear the True God and Keep His commandments, for this is the whole obligation of man." ~ Ecclesiastes 12:13~

peace

I see. I would think they would be true. However, these prophecies have been misconstrued with the other ones of Nostradamos and Bruce Bueno de Mesquita. The main one springs forth from the second coming of Jesus and Armageddon. Thus, people like to focus on the what is to occur before then. The Bible contains other detailed prophecies relating to the future of Israel, Israelites, King David, destruction of Tyre, Apostles and more. Nostradamos and Bueno de Mesquita has the Biblical prophecies, but it's mixed in with their own other prophecies. So, if we look at the Biblical prophecies, we see that most have occurred already. Are there any besides the end of the world ones that have not happened yet? I think no.

Here's a look at the state of end times prophecies. This is where Nostradamos and Bueno de Mesquita come in. Like I said, I do not worry about such things. It's like I don't concern myself with the science backing up things in the Bible until it actually happens.

Have any aspects of end times prophecy been fulfilled?

EDIT: I mention Nostradamos and Bueno de Mequita because they've been the most successful ones. The others are crackpots and can be ignored. I mean I heard the world will end in 2027. I even estimated 2060 according to Nostradamos. However, these are just guesses. I don't have any other insight aside from what the Bible says and one of the two above. Instead, things like Iran and Obama agreement come up and we become scared that Iran is part of the end of the world prophecy. See how that works? It's based on fear so people blow it out of proportion. Another is fear of China with them having a million man army, nuclear weapons and our debt obligations. This week we're probably starting to fear Russia with US intel being leaked to them and Russia and China forming a new alliance with other countries. Suddenly, Russia is part of the end of the world.

 

[Daisies4me]

Nah. Just debunk. Once the delusions are exposed as fantasies, they will have no power to move large number of people to action.

(quote)

Hi Sayak

You are spot on, but I doubt that you have realized that yet---
political governments are now attempting to limit or stop the interference of religion in their affairs.

also, many governments (often at the behest of the religious leaders) attempt to silence and prevent JW's from showing people what the Bible actually teaches, and in the process, are exposing the false doctrines and teachings of the religious organizations of the world.
Just at the Religious leaders had Jesus put to death, for the same reason. He was exposing them for the hypocrites they were, and making known their false teachings and oppression over the people.

History repeating itself.
The difference being, that everyone today owes it to themselves to delve into the issues, so that they can make an educated decision as to whom they will obey, so as not to get dragged along with those who are about to be destroyed in the process of setting things straight.

Only ONE can be the right way. Not multiples. And the one most hated by the masses, is usually the one that is their biggest threat.

peace

 

[Daisies4me]

I see. I would think they would be true. However, these prophecies have been misconstrued with the other ones of Nostradamos and Bruce Bueno de Mesquita. The main one springs forth from the second coming of Jesus and Armageddon. Thus, people like to focus on the what is to occur before then. The Bible contains other detailed prophecies relating to the future of Israel, Israelites, King David, destruction of Tyre, Apostles and more. Nostradamos and Bueno de Mesquita has the Biblical prophecies, but it's mixed in with their own other prophecies. So, if we look at the Biblical prophecies, we see that most have occurred already. Are there any besides the end of the world ones that have not happened yet? I think no.

Here's a look at the state of end times prophecies. This is where Nostradamos and Bueno de Mesquita come in. Like I said, I do not worry about such things. It's like I don't concern myself with the science backing up things in the Bible until it actually happens.

Have any aspects of end times prophecy been fulfilled?

EDIT: I mention Nostradamos and Bueno de Mequita because they've been the most successful ones. The others are crackpots and can be ignored. I mean I heard the world will end in 2027. I even estimated 2060 according to Nostradamos. However, these are just guesses. I don't have any other insight aside from what the Bible says and one of the two above. Instead, things like Iran and Obama agreement come up and we become scared that Iran is part of the end of the world prophecy. See how that works? It's based on fear so people blow it out of proportion. Another is fear of China with them having a million man army, nuclear weapons and our debt obligations. This week we're probably starting to fear Russia with US intel being leaked to them and Russia and China forming a new alliance with other countries. Suddenly, Russia is part of the end of the world.

(quote)

Hi again
Yes, many Bible prophecies have indeed been fulfilled. Yet, there are also many others prior to the actual cleansing of the earth that must be fulfilled. They could be fulfilled at any time, so we keep on the watch, as we are instructed to do by our Leader. We don't want to be like the 5 virgins who slept and let the oil of their lamps burn out before the door was opened to the 'marriage of the Lamb', do we?
That has not yet happened, has it?

Are you a student of the Bible, or philosophy?
History also, should be something included in our searches for things pertaining to Bible prophecies, imo.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the topic.

 

[Christ's Prophet]

According to Biblical prophecy, all nations are to come against Jerusalem, and then God steps in to save those who are righteous; why do we need to have a World War, and everyone removed before people will accept who the Messiah is?
Surely this isn't something most people want, as most people are not invited to the Messianic age; therefore they will be removed from reality, according to most eschatology globally (Zoroastrianism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, Christianity, Islam, American Indian, Taoism, etc).
Can't we work to fix the things, why do people need to argue rather than look for solutions; realize some people think it is all fantasy, especially some of the people within the religions themselves.... Yet too much of the prophecy has already happened to the letter.Are true prophecies inevitable or is it possible to turn it all around, and God to change his mind; if we all recognized the error of our ways like Nineveh?
Is there anyway within prophecy for the Messiah to reverse it or does it have to be a final war, and God destroying all those who don't accept, before we can progress?
If you knew you were personally responsible because of your beliefs, would you change to avoid world wide destruction?

I think that is wishful thinking to think that the war to end all wars is not going to happen. We must not forget the sin question. Man is just as sinful and riddled with imperfection as he has always been. Right from the beginning of creation, man has been killing each other over any issue. Thousands of years later, nations are still fighting each other and they will continue to do so because they don’t know God or fear Him. The only difference today is the vastly increased ability to kill each other. The first Word War, five million died (which was the war to end all wars), and in the Second World War, sixty million died. The last world war will be off the scale in magnitude.
The reality is that God has begun a creation in the Garden and it ends in a city in Revelation. The whole of the Bible has to deal with the sin question and reconciling God to His sinful creation. God hates sin and it is opposite to His character. But Christ has paid for the sins of man so that we can be reconciled to God, if we want it. This world is only temporary, the next world is permanent. Hope this helps the debate. Certainty for eternity

 

[james bond]

(quote)

Hi again
Yes, many Bible prophecies have indeed been fulfilled. Yet, there are also many others prior to the actual cleansing of the earth that must be fulfilled. They could be fulfilled at any time, so we keep on the watch, as we are instructed to do by our Leader. We don't want to be like the 5 virgins who slept and let the oil of their lamps burn out before the door was opened to the 'marriage of the Lamb', do we?
That has not yet happened, has it?

Are you a student of the Bible, or philosophy?
History also, should be something included in our searches for things pertaining to Bible prophecies, imo.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the topic.

I'm kinda stopped right now being a student of the Bible. Again, I would not be concerned about this prophecy business as I have said. It's something left more to professionals, and I'll show you why. I do not know about the ones you mentioned left in the Bible.

However, did you follow up on looking up Nostradamos?

He gave us the name of the 3rd Antichrist: MABUS

The person who is an expert on this propheciser is John Hogue of Seattle from the vid I posted. Guess what he does? That's right he's an author so he wants you to buy his books. Meh.

"The prophet forged visions into cryptic verse after sitting alone in a state of trance in nightly vigils locked away in his secret upstairs study in Salon Provence summoning what he called “angelic emissaries from God” to his aid. In the mid-1550s, he received from them words, sounds and twilit images warning about a third and final antichrist that has yet to fully reveal himself. This man is described in a prophecy indexed 10 Q72 (Century 10, Quatrain 72) as, The king of terror. He will enter the world stage, descending from distant future skies, In the year 1999 September month."

Nostradamus fashioned anagrams out of numbers too. If the month of “September” is a lead, then “1999” could be a reverse code for the actual year, month and DAY:

1999 = 9111
Thus the prophecy means to say:

In the year 9.11.1 September month,
The great King of Terror comes from the Sky.

Nostradamus gave the Third Antichrist the following code name. He’s Mabus. A number of notorious contemporary figures, still living or recently dead from the Middle East can see their names spelled in the Mabus code. But there also are other leaders from the West, deeply entangled in Middle Eastern turmoil, a current US president and a charismatic candidate who could be his successor whose names also easily decode out of Mabus, making the search for the right candidate the most provocative and topical challenge presented by Nostradamus for our present times.

Though his true name is occulted, the Third Antichrist’s destiny is made clear. Unlike the first two, he is the first to die in a war he initiates at the sign of a comet, or a rocket falling out of the skies:

World War III begins when Mabus dies a sudden death.

911: World Trade Center.

His act of terror unites a hundred nations in a war against what Nostradamus calls three Eastern kings secretly allied in opposition to the West. They would use piracy (hijacking?), ambush and subterfuge to wage war.

Know the war has begun when hollow mountains of a great New City (yet to be built in Nostradamus’ day) at latitude 45 in an unborn country he called Americh or Amorica, will be attacked by a fire in the sky. The hollow mountains crafted by man will be seized and plunged into the boiling cauldron of their own debris clouds.

After this happens, we will be living in the days
of the last Antichrist."

Who is Mabus? Obama? Usama? Someone else?

They both have come and gone.

However, Obama is still alive. Usama is... sudden death.

Thus, we await WWIII. See how this prophecy business goes? What if it wasn't Usama? Then you will still be looking to fulfill MABUS since it doesn't exactly match either of those names. Thus, no reason to be concerned about such things even though the Bible backs up their prophecies. We'll know when it happens.

Nostradamus and the Antichrist:Code Named Mabus

The same goes for anyone else reading this post ha ha.

 

[Athena Plato]

Right or

According to Biblical prophecy, all nations are to come against Jerusalem, and then God steps in to save those who are righteous; why do we need to have a World War, and everyone removed before people will accept who the Messiah is?

Surely this isn't something most people want, as most people are not invited to the Messianic age; therefore they will be removed from reality, according to most eschatology globally (Zoroastrianism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, Christianity, Islam, American Indian, Taoism, etc).

Can't we work to fix the things, why do people need to argue rather than look for solutions; realize some people think it is all fantasy, especially some of the people within the religions themselves.... Yet too much of the prophecy has already happened to the letter.

Are true prophecies inevitable or is it possible to turn it all around, and God to change his mind; if we all recognized the error of our ways like Nineveh?

Is there anyway within prophecy for the Messiah to reverse it or does it have to be a final war, and God destroying all those who don't accept, before we can progress?

If you knew you were personally responsible because of your beliefs, would you change to avoid world wide destruction?

The Answer you seek is in your Question. God showed mercy to Nineveh, just as She shall to Jerusalem (“Measure of the Promised Land”); which means Forgiveness again, to any Human on Earth, Ignorant of the difference between the Right or Wrong or Good and Evil, Found in God’s Parables and Final Prophesy.

The first step is the Prophesy. If, we ask the Father of Western Democracy, Law and Philosophy, Plato; He would say Scripture was designed to entice Humans into challenging and reasoning the Word of God. Something we cannot do if we take everything literally. In 380 BC, Plato claimed, Mankind was Blind living in a Cave of Darkness, and He could not See God’s Various Forms and Socratic Irony or realize that God was Testing Mankind’s Intelligence. It’s sad, but not much has changed in over 2,000 years.

As Modern Day Philosopher Kings and Queens we can see the Light (God’s True Forms), and also share in the Labours of God’s Prisoners in the Cave (God’s False Forms). Eve’s Desire for the Garden of Eden’s Forbidden Fruit (Wisdom) of the Tree of Knowledge and resulting Curse (God’s Greatest Blessing and Reward); is a Good example. Her Victory is the beginning and the end of understanding God. The challenge is how do we know when God is testing us with Arithmetic or Imitation or Irony or Ignorance or Wisdom in Scripture?

Let’s try God’s Final Prophesy: Maybe God wanted us to reason that all nations shall come together with Jerusalem, the Word of God steps in to teach those who are unrighteous, we all need World Peace, and then everyone shall be enlightened, and accept who the Messiah is?

If we asked God, She might suggest a Global March of Peace? Thousands, and Thousands, and Thousands of Christians, Jews, Muslims, and Anyone Else Brave enough to Unite, (Under Allied Protection), Following the exact path of the Bible, Taking a Census, Carrying Banners, Handing out Pamphlets and Chanting “Thou shalt not Kill!” Ending the “Peace and Love” March at God’s Temple Mount in Jerusalem (“Measure of the Promised Land”)?

I do believe it’s possible to reverse our thinking, and your reasoning is what God and Scripture asks us do. Worshipping Nuclear Weapons, Walls, War, and Ignorance is not a Pathway to God or Peace. What worries me is that God might give up on us and decide to start all over again. And we all know that Man is no match for God’s Earthquakes, Eruptions, and Floods.

 

[Satyamavejayanti]

"wizanda

,

Namaste,

Am only responding to this as you once again have misrepresented Hindu texts and Ideas.

within the Kalki Purana it records removing all Adharmic people's including certain religions...

Firstly Kalki Puran does not hold any Authority in Many Hindu Darshans, such as Vedanta, Sankhya, Yoga, Arya Samaj ect, and is not a binding conical texts that Hindus read and recite.

2:28 The four exalted brahmanas offered their obeisances unto Lord Visnu, who had assumed the form of a human being. They very well understood that Lord Kalki had appeared to rid the earth of all those who had become degraded to the level of sinful demons.

Kindly Advise when this "Purging", will take place according the the Kalki Purana, I am sure it is at the End of the Kali Yuga which Started 3102BC and Lasts some 430,000 years.

Krishna says to Arjuna, "that even if he doesn't fight the people, they will still be removed at Mahapralaya."

BG 11.32-33: The Supreme Lord said: I am mighty Time, the source of destruction that comes forth to annihilate the worlds. Even without your participation, the warriors arrayed in the opposing army shall cease to exist. (33) Therefore, arise and attain honor! Conquer your foes and enjoy prosperous rulership. These warriors stand already slain by me, and you will only be an instrument of my work, O expert archer.

Out of context quote,

Read the quote, it is clear that "Time" is the context, which eventually kills everyone and everything, including the warriors on the battlefield, this is not some kind of War or Judgement at the "END OF TIME". Hindus don't believe in a "END OF TIME, scenario as we believe the Universe is Cyclic.

Therefore not everyone is divine, not everyone is part of Brahman; only those who practise all aspects of Yoga then have the divine reside in them...

Wrong, read the chapter 2,3 and 4 before making such a assumption.

Therefore according to most eschatologies, everyone who is not at that state isn't going to be in Satya Yuga.

Wrong, The Atman is eternal as per Hindu Philosophy, it will always be here in every cycle.

 

[wizanda]

If we asked God, She might suggest a Global March of Peace?

Thank you, and God bless you for being the first person who actually tried to answer the OP.... That might be an idea to try.

misrepresented Hindu texts and Ideas.

My understanding on Hindu text is based on what they say when analyzed against the same global eschatology, not some traditions.

Kindly Advise when this "Purging", will take place according the the Kalki Purana

You're correct it is at the end of Kali yuga, which is soon... There are references within it identifying out timeline.

1:28 In Kah-yuga, a person with a lot of money will naturally be respected as a great soul. If a twice-born person earns his livelihood by lending money on interest, he will be considered a pillar of society. The sannydsls of Kah-yuga will be attached to home and property, and householders will become devoid of all power of discrimination. In Kah-yuga, people will blaspheme a spiritual master or other elderly person without hesitation. Indeed, people in general will simply become hypocrites, liars, and cheaters.

End of the Kali Yuga which Started 3102BC and Lasts some 430,000 years.

The dating of the end of the yuga is whimsical, and is as precise as Christians claiming they know when Christ returns.

Read the quote, it is clear that "Time" is the context

It specifically states that they shall be destroyed by Krishna at Mahapralaya.

Wrong, read the chapter 2,3 and 4 before making such a assumption.

The way i read it within the whole of the Gita, is though everything is made manifest by the CPU; not everything within the Matrax/Maya is of divine nature.

You've not proved anything by going 'wrong' or claiming 'i make assumptions', show your reasoning.

Hindus don't believe in a "END OF TIME, scenario as we believe the Universe is Cyclic.

Honestly confused, how someone can misidentify the different concepts globally are saying the same thing.... There isn't an actual 'end of time' in any religious texts globally.

Most religious people have a tendency to not accept Mahapralaya/Day of the Lord; sort of like their own desire for material existence, makes them deny what the religious texts put forth.

Out of context quote,

This is the context I've understood the whole Gita to be about, and it is clarified again at the end, that is what the whole conversation is really about, justifying to Arjuna none of this is real anyways, thus it is better to fight the Adharmic behavior, then regret in infinity for not doing so.

BG 8.19: The multitudes of beings repeatedly take birth with the advent of Brahma’s day, and are reabsorbed on the arrival of the cosmic night, to manifest again automatically on the advent of the next cosmic day.

The Gita references Mahapralaya multiple times (9:18, 7:6, etc), with that being the climax of the events, that regardless of Arjuna's action it will happen anyways.

BG 18.59: If, motivated by pride, you think, “I shall not fight,” your decision will be in vain. Your own material (Kshatriya) nature will compel you to fight.

this is not some kind of War or Judgement at the "END OF TIME".

There is a war against the Adhamic recorded in most Eschatologies; other than people choosing not to read their texts in a prophetic sense.

Personally see Arjuna as a repetition of Kalki, being told the things before the end of Kali yuga, and before we return to Satya yuga.

The Atman is eternal as per Hindu Philosophy, it will always be here in every cycle.

Again depending what texts are taken into account, and since some are not inspired in my opinion; then only those souls, that have recognized their divine nature, shall remain in Satya yuga.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

about "choosing a side"----- consider this; there are only two options. Either you side with Jehovah God and His Son, the Christ, or you side with the challenger, Satan the Devil.

Unfortunately, these words carry no actual weight based on beliefs you, yourself, also hold. There is, I believe, a little thing called "free-will". An attribute supposedly granted to human beings by God Himself. If I decide to side with neither God, nor the devil, then by what agency am I literally forced to make such a choice? In your example of the flood, knowing impending doom was on its way in the form of the rising waters, could I not choose to simply let come what will come? You know I could. Am I truly "choosing Satan" by not siding with God? Does God believe that? If so, then He has not an ounce of fairness to Him - all the more reason not to follow. And do you honestly think that I would "choose" God simply because His actions threatened me with death otherwise? Does that seem like a good reason to pledge your allegiance to someone? Well, it isn't in my book.

Oddly enough, you said it yourself perfectly:

...no one is forced to search for the Truth from God...

I find this sort of thing happens a lot with believers. So many specious items - items without true substance - said over time that it becomes too difficult to keep track of it all. Eventually you are bound to start stepping on your own toes, getting tangled in your own web of random proclamations, and opinions meant to sound like truths. You'll claim there is no such inconsistency, that it all jives according to "God's will." Fortunately, for those who remain uninitiated by choice, it is all too easy to see otherwise.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Yet to all Christians, what if you're all not invited, and no Christian, Muslim or Rabbinic Jew will be in the Messianic age?
Do you still want total annihilation, to remove all these wicked that you're part of?
Shouldn't we be trying to prevent it, and not hasten the day to come?

The figurative humble ' sheep'-like people of Matthew 25:31-33,37 I think are Not part of the wickedness in the world.
I find ALL people are invited because the good news about God's coming kingdom government is now proclaimed on a global international scale world wide as never before in history as mentioned at Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8.
So, that educational work is for everyone on Earth. Thus, as Jesus' promised the humble meek will inherit the Earth.
That Messianic age already has a set time according to Matthew 24:36. We can Not hasten that millennium-long day to come, but we can warn righteous ones to stay on a righteous course, and those wicked ones to repent so as Not to perish (be destroyed) as mentioned at 2 Peter 3:9.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Unfortunately, these words carry no actual weight based on beliefs you, yourself, also hold. There is, I believe, a little thing called "free-will". An attribute supposedly granted to human beings by God Himself. If I decide not to side with neither God nor the devil, then by what agency am I literally forced to make such a choice? ......................................
And do you honestly think that I would "choose" God simply because His actions threatened me with death otherwise? Does that seem like a good reason to pledge your allegiance to someone? Well, it isn't in my book.
.

We agree there is or are free-will choices.
Whatever we choose to put first in our lives is our god/God. Whatever we follow first is by what agency we follow.
Sound as if you think God threatened Adam with death. I think Adam was simply forewarned if you break the Law then you will forfeit your life. Since I can find nothing wrong with the beautiful paradisical surroundings found in Eden, then to me Adam failed in showing Love to his God.

Just as with Satan, there was No testing, No threats, No persecution, but that Satan simply failed in showing love and appreciation for his gift of life.

Promised everlasting life, free of wrong leanings and being in perfect health having a sound heart, mind and body, is a good reason for me to pledge allegiance, pledge devotion, to the God of the Bible because then I could praise Him forever.

 

[wizanda]

The figurative humble ' sheep'-like people of Matthew 25:31-33,37 I think are Not part of the wickedness in the world.

Yet that isn't referring to Christians, Muslims and Rabbinic Jews; it is saying those who have done the work of God, by being righteous and caring for people.

We could assume sheep means they're following the shepherd according to John; yet since John sounds nothing like Yeshua in the Synoptic Gospels...

It still didn't answer the question; if Christians are not invited, why are they so desperate for the end, if they're the ones to be removed?

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Whatever we choose to put first in our lives is our god/God.

Again, this only "sounds good" to you, or to believers in general. It carries absolutely no truth or weight. I, personally, put nothing on a pedestal like believers claim to place their God. The only thing that I can say comes close in my life to something I "worship" - something I give daily praise to - is the relationship I have with my wife and children. I pledge my life in service to them gladly. Otherwise, I have nothing at that level of relationship.

Money? Don't make me laugh. Since I was young I have only lay my money aside in savings - and not because I am miserly, or at all out of greed. Only so that I don't have to be concerned with it. When I need it, I know it is there, because I put it there. The newest trends and technology? Meaningless. I use them to do my job, make a living, etc. - but in the end I couldn't care much less if they weren't there. Entertainment? I'll admit to partaking in entertainment, but I don't care a lick who is who, or what is what. Celebrity/fame is also meaningless. I could also easily do without "being entertained." It is ridiculous for me to even try and contemplate that I couldn't. Food? I also have to admit to liking food, but in the end I understand down to my core that it is all about sustenance alone. Sure I dress up food as I can when the mood suits me... but could I survive in the wild, eating bugs and leafy greens? Hell yes I could.

And now I'm having a hard time even coming up with things that matter enough that someone might call them out as a "god in place of God" of mine.

So no, you can't pin a "god" on me. And I am sure there are plenty of others like me. You're all talk - there is no substance.

Sound as if you think God threatened Adam with death. I think Adam was simply forewarned if you break the Law then you will forfeit your life.

Isn't this the very definition of a threat? What am I missing here? Don't the police threaten us with incarceration if we break the law? Isn't that constant threat supposed to work as a deterrent? Is it just a "forewarning?" No. You see, a "forewarning" implies that there is inherent danger in something ahead - that someone concerned, but UNINVOLVED is warning you about it so you can avoid it. But as soon as THE PERSON DOING THE WARNING IS THE DANGER, they are no longer forewarning... they are threatening.

• So, God tells Adam: "If you disobey, you will lose the everlasting life I have given you, and you will die."
• If Adam then asked, "Is that a threat?"
• God replies "No, just a warning."
• Adam asks: "Well, how exactly is it that I will lose this life?"
• God's only honest response would have to be: "I am going to take it from you."

It is the difference between warning your kids when something they are doing is dangerous BY DEFAULT, and threatening your kids with punishment when what they are doing is merely something that poses no danger related to the consequences you are forcefully imposing. A few examples:

• "Son, get down off of those rocks, or you could get hurt." - forewarning
• "Daughter, you will not continue to see that boy or I will lock you in your room every night for a week!" - threat
• Co-worker still has his hand on a nail he is about to come down heavily upon with a hammer and you say "I wouldn't do that if I were you." - forewarning
• "You kids stop that racket or you're getting a spanking!" - threat

So, let's review the Adam/Eve scenario - is there any INHERENT danger in disobeying God? Think about this hard now. In disobeying God, does anything happen to us that is not something God himself would have to enact? A child playing on rocks has to answer to gravity - NOT HIS PARENTS - when he slips and falls off - the danger is inherent - the suffering for falling off of the rock is immediate, and outside of anyone's control. It should also be noted that the suffering one could incur after the warning is only a possibility, not a certainty. A threat implies a certainty. And no, you can't just put the words "I'm warning you", in front of a statement like "I'm warning you, if you don't stop ticking me off I am going to punch you." and make your statement a "forewarning". It doesn't work like that. That is still a threat - because the danger is only a certainty because the threatening party is willing to impose the suffering. Even you have to admit that, within your beliefs about God, He wouldn't have had to punish Adam with the loss of eternal life, if He so chose. But instead, He made and carried out His threat to Adam.

Promised everlasting life, free of wrong leanings and being in perfect health having a sound heart, mind and body, is a good reason for me to pledge allegiance, pledge devotion, to the God of the Bible because then I could praise Him forever.

Good for you. Now please remember that your supposed God also gave me the ability to choose those things (or refuse them) for myself.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Yet that isn't referring to Christians, Muslims and Rabbinic Jews; it is saying those who have done the work of God, by being righteous and caring for people.
We could assume sheep means they're following the shepherd according to John; yet since John sounds nothing like Yeshua in the Synoptic Gospels...
It still didn't answer the question; if Christians are not invited, why are they so desperate for the end, if they're the ones to be removed?

The ' sheep' who do good to Jesus' spiritual ' brothers' of Matthew 25:40 are Not removed.
It is wicked ones who will Not remain according to Proverbs 2:21-22.
The executional words from Jesus' mouth remove (exterminate) the wicked as per Revelation 19:14-16; Isaiah 11:3-4. Only those causing ruin to Earth will be brought to ruin according to Revelation 11:18 B.

Christians and non-Christians are ALL invited to pray for Jesus to come at Revelation 22:20.

 

[wizanda]

The ' sheep' who do good to Jesus' spiritual ' brothers' of Matthew 25:40 are Not removed.

These brothers are anyone, not just 'spiritual' brothers; the Church of Philadelphia which are saved in Revelation, is because it means brotherly love to everyone....

Yeshua was teaching to feed the poor, help teach the criminals, clothe the destitute; not just congregate with the rich friends like the Pharisees (Matthew 25:34-40).

This is why there are many churches that offer meals to the poor everyday.

 

[Satyamavejayanti]

wizanda

Namaste,

My understanding on Hindu text is based on what they say when analyzed against the same global eschatology, not some traditions.

Which from my perspective (being a Hindu) is a misunderstanding and misrepresentation of the Hindu Puranas.

You're correct it is at the end of Kali yuga, which is soon... There are references within it identifying out timeline.
The dating of the end of the yuga is whimsical, and is as precise as Christians claiming they know when Christ returns.

So you are picking and choosing whatever idea/quote fits into your preconceived notions about Kali Yuga, there is enough evidence from the Puranas/Ithihas/Surya Sidhanta that Kali Yuga will last for some 430,000 years, the Kalki Puran itself as you have quoted advised the coming of the Avatar at the End of this Kali Yuga Cycle.

It specifically states that they shall be destroyed by Krishna at Mahapralaya.

No it literally states that all is eventually "eaten", by Time.

If we were speaking from the Upanishads or other Hindu thinking, might think the same; yet based on some of these statements, no longer accept them as authoritative.
You've not proved anything by going 'wrong' or claiming 'i make assumptions', show your reasoning, and stop just making blunt statements from the ego.

You are using a Abrahmic criteria of religious revelation and texts and applying them to the Hindu Puranas, assuming that one book is superseded by a newer one, this is the misrepresentation, If you want to bring in the Authoritativeness of texts into your argument, then as the Kalki Purana is not Shruti, it hold less importance and less Authority the the Upanishads and the Veda, therefore is not a "Apurushay", text.

Here is why you are wrong about there being only a chosen few who are divine,

Gita Chapter 2
11) The Lord said: O Arjuna, you are mourning for that which is
unworthy of grief, and yet speaking words of wisdom. But the
wise lament neither for the living nor the dead.
12) Never was there a time when I, you, or all these kings did not
exist. As we are at present, so have we been in the past, and shall
continue to be in the future.
13) As the embodied living being gradually passes in this body
from childhood to youth to old age, so also that soul attains yet
another boy at death. The learned are not deluded by such a
transformation.
16) Of the changeable, such as the body, there is no everlasting
existence; of the everlasting soul, there is no transformation or
destruction. Seers of the truth have thus distinguished and
analyzed the nature of both eternal reality and temporary illusion.
17) Know that the soul who pervades the entire body is
imperishable. He is unchangeable and everlasting, and no one can
destroy him.
18) Only these physical bodies of the eternal, indestructible, and
immeasurable soul are subject to destruction. Therefore, fight, O
Bharata, and do not give up your natural religious principles.
19) Those who think that the living being is a slayer, and those
who think that he is slain, are both ignorant of the true nature of
the soul - the soul neither slays nor is slain.
20) The soul is never born and he never dies, nor does he
repeatedly come into being and undergo expansion, because he is
unborn and eternal. He is inexhaustible ever-youthful yet ancient.
Although the body is subject to birth and death, the soul is never
destroyed.

This is the context I've understood the whole Gita to be about, and it is clarified again at the end, that is what the whole conversation is really about, justifying to Arjuna none of this is real anyways, thus it is better to fight the Adharmic behavior, then regret in infinity for not doing so.

And you have misunderstood the concept of time in the Context Hindu Dharmah.

The Gita references Mahapralaya multiple times (9:18, 7:6, etc), with that being the climax of the events, that regardless of Arjuna's action it will happen anyways.

Yes, the end of a cycle is Mahapralay, but this is followed by creation again, and this cycle continues infinitely.

If you agree with the Mahapralay notion then, you should be aware that this is no war, but a "great disaster", or a natural change of the Universe.

There is a war against the Adhamic recorded in most Eschatologies; other than people choosing not to read their texts in a prophetic sense.

The Mahabharatta if read in full outlines the reason and events leading up to the War and the consequences after it, The Mahabharatta was never said to be a "World War", that destroyed all of Humanity, nor did Krishna after the War make "Judgement" on those who participated, nor was it ever declared that Adharmah has been wiped out.

Again depending what texts are taken into account, and since some are not inspired in my opinion; then only those souls, that recognize their divine nature, that they're avatars/elohim shall remain in Satya yuga.

Well, your opinion means nothing especially if your making assumptions on the traditions/texts and cultures of people who you obviously have no understanding of.
Obviously you are leading the texts in the direction of your preconceived assumptions.

As a Hindu, i am telling you that you don't know what your talking about when it comes to MY Dharmah.

 

[Daisies4me]

I'm kinda stopped right now being a student of the Bible. Again, I would not be concerned about this prophecy business as I have said. It's something left more to professionals, and I'll show you why. I do not know about the ones you mentioned left in the Bible.

However, did you follow up on looking up Nostradamos?

He gave us the name of the 3rd Antichrist: MABUS

The person who is an expert on this propheciser is John Hogue of Seattle from the vid I posted. Guess what he does? That's right he's an author so he wants you to buy his books. Meh.

"The prophet forged visions into cryptic verse after sitting alone in a state of trance in nightly vigils locked away in his secret upstairs study in Salon Provence summoning what he called “angelic emissaries from God” to his aid. In the mid-1550s, he received from them words, sounds and twilit images warning about a third and final antichrist that has yet to fully reveal himself. This man is described in a prophecy indexed 10 Q72 (Century 10, Quatrain 72) as, The king of terror. He will enter the world stage, descending from distant future skies, In the year 1999 September month."

Nostradamus fashioned anagrams out of numbers too. If the month of “September” is a lead, then “1999” could be a reverse code for the actual year, month and DAY:

1999 = 9111
Thus the prophecy means to say:

In the year 9.11.1 September month,
The great King of Terror comes from the Sky.

Nostradamus gave the Third Antichrist the following code name. He’s Mabus. A number of notorious contemporary figures, still living or recently dead from the Middle East can see their names spelled in the Mabus code. But there also are other leaders from the West, deeply entangled in Middle Eastern turmoil, a current US president and a charismatic candidate who could be his successor whose names also easily decode out of Mabus, making the search for the right candidate the most provocative and topical challenge presented by Nostradamus for our present times.

Though his true name is occulted, the Third Antichrist’s destiny is made clear. Unlike the first two, he is the first to die in a war he initiates at the sign of a comet, or a rocket falling out of the skies:

World War III begins when Mabus dies a sudden death.

911: World Trade Center.

His act of terror unites a hundred nations in a war against what Nostradamus calls three Eastern kings secretly allied in opposition to the West. They would use piracy (hijacking?), ambush and subterfuge to wage war.

Know the war has begun when hollow mountains of a great New City (yet to be built in Nostradamus’ day) at latitude 45 in an unborn country he called Americh or Amorica, will be attacked by a fire in the sky. The hollow mountains crafted by man will be seized and plunged into the boiling cauldron of their own debris clouds.

After this happens, we will be living in the days
of the last Antichrist."

Who is Mabus? Obama? Usama? Someone else?

They both have come and gone.

However, Obama is still alive. Usama is... sudden death.

Thus, we await WWIII. See how this prophecy business goes? What if it wasn't Usama? Then you will still be looking to fulfill MABUS since it doesn't exactly match either of those names. Thus, no reason to be concerned about such things even though the Bible backs up their prophecies. We'll know when it happens.

Nostradamus and the Antichrist:Code Named Mabus

The same goes for anyone else reading this post ha ha.

(quote)

Hello, Bond... James Bond,,, In my best Pierce Brosnan voice... ha

There is no limit to the people who attempt to predict the future. It is quite the lucrative income source for many sorcerers, psychics, soothsayers, Numerologists, "religious" leaders, philosophers etc. Michel de Notredame is one of many. And don't forget the mayan calendar, et.al.. My bad, I thought we were speaking about Bible prophecies, which are the only ones I am concerned with. There is a difference between the Inspired Writings from God, and those of self-seeking prominence of arrogant men, imo.

take care

 

[Daisies4me]

Unfortunately, these words carry no actual weight based on beliefs you, yourself, also hold. There is, I believe, a little thing called "free-will". An attribute supposedly granted to human beings by God Himself. If I decide to side with neither God, nor the devil, then by what agency am I literally forced to make such a choice? In your example of the flood, knowing impending doom was on its way in the form of the rising waters, could I not choose to simply let come what will come? You know I could. Am I truly "choosing Satan" by not siding with God? Does God believe that? If so, then He has not an ounce of fairness to Him - all the more reason not to follow. And do you honestly think that I would "choose" God simply because His actions threatened me with death otherwise? Does that seem like a good reason to pledge your allegiance to someone? Well, it isn't in my book.(quote)

D. Yes, 'free will' to choose does not mean that we go above the law Giver and Creator's available choices. And there are only 'two roads' available. The road that leads to life, or the road that leads off into destruction. You see, since the Earth and everything in it was created by HIm, He gets to make the 'house rules'. You and I get the option of using that 'free will' to choose life or choose destruction . God dignifies us with free will, the power to make decisions of our own rather than having God or fate predetermine what we do.
To a great extent, we can determine our future. The Bible encourages us to “choose life ...by listening to [God’s] voice,” that is, by choosing to obey his commands.
There are only two options from which to choose.

These instructions have not changed. Granted, many people try to divert Bible truths and substitute their own doctrines, but the Bible has not changed. /QUOTE]

 

[wizanda]

misrepresentation of the Hindu Puranas.

Hinduism means a large body of water; not a small puddle.... Need to look at things in a much bigger perspective.

the coming of the Avatar at the End of this Kali Yuga Cycle.

Since the prophecies that are stated about said avatar coming are fulfilled, then we're at that time....

Our clocks of when we think the event happens don't matter, the time is specified that when things become Adharmic, then Vishnu comes back into the world to restore it....

Though personally find the final coming in this yuga more like a form of Shiva, as it is to destroy and renew things.

assuming that one book is superseded by a newer one

Don't think anything like that; personally judge each statement, each text on its own merit...

Did remove that sentence quoted, as decided didn't like the way it was phrased using the word 'authoritative'.

It is more some of the theology is just wrong, based on my own first hand knowledge.

You are using a Abrahmic criteria of religious revelation

I've spent my life reading all religions, the idea of talking to me like i don't understand Dharmic concepts, as I'm Abrahamic isn't true.

And you have misunderstood the concept of time in the Context Hindu Dharmah.

Interested where you perceived that is misunderstanding the concepts?

If you agree with the Mahapralay notion then

Really not sure if you know how naive this sounds, are you aware this same concept is discussed in most eschatology?

Islam, Christianity, Zoroastrianism, Jewish texts, all have a new creation... They're just not aware we've been through multiple cycles of it.

you should be aware that this is no war

In the Kalki Purana there is a great war before the day, and within the Gita take this who section as prophetic, and the war is at the end just before the Mahapralaya.

BG 11:24-32 O Lord Vishnu, seeing your form touching the sky, effulgent in many colors, with mouths wide open and enormous blazing eyes, my heart is trembling with fear. I have lost all courage and peace of mind. (25) Having seen your many mouths bearing your terrible teeth, resembling the raging fire at the time of annihilation, I forget where I am and do not know where to go. O Lord of lords, you are the shelter of the universe; please have mercy on me. (26-27) I see all the sons of Dhritarashtra, along with their allied kings, including Bheeshma, Dronacharya, Karn, and also the generals from our side, rushing headlong into your fearsome mouths. I see some with their heads smashed between your terrible teeth.(28-29) As many waves of the rivers flowing rapidly into the ocean, so are all these great warriors entering into your blazing mouths. As moths rush with great speed into the fire to perish, so are all these armies entering with great speed into your mouths.(30) With your fiery tongues you are licking up the hosts of living beings on all sides and devouring them with your blazing mouths. O Vishnu, you are scorching the entire universe with the fierce, all-pervading rays of your effulgence. (31) Tell me who you are, so fierce of form. O God of gods, I bow before you; please bestow your mercy on me. You, who existed before all creation, I wish to know who you are, for I do not comprehend your nature and workings. (32) The Supreme Lord said: I am mighty Time, the source of destruction that comes forth to annihilate the worlds. Even without your participation, the warriors arrayed in the opposing army shall cease to exist.

There is a spiritual war before the day in many different texts; otherwise why do you think Mahapralaya happens, if everyone is already enlightened?

a "great disaster", or a natural change of the Universe.

The great destruction is as Brahman is seen here; this is like the fabric of the Matrix collapsing, so we see the CPU.

nor was it ever declared that Adharmah has been wiped out.

Strange concept, Satya yuga is a time of the enlightened beings, where the Adharmic behavior has been removed....

Fair enough it might come back after awhile; yet the process of renewing the code of the Matrix is to optimize it, and remove flaws that allow such things.

nor did Krishna after the War make "Judgement" on those who participated

Already posted in the Gita where the opposing armies are destroyed; found the Kalki Purana a bit strong, as it starts killing off all Buddhists for not accepting the Hindu deities.

i am telling you that you don't know what your talking about when it comes to MY Dharmah.

Of course i don't know your own Dharma; same as you've got no idea about mine.

No it literally states that all is eventually "eaten", by Time.

When we look at this whole section BG 11:24-32, the time reference is about the annihilation at its end...

They're literally swallowed back into the Singularity, as the manifest reality is absorbed back into the CPU.

BG 14.2: Those who take refuge in this wisdom will be united with me. They will not be reborn at the time of creation nor destroyed at the time of dissolution.

Obviously you are leading the texts in the direction of your preconceived assumptions.

We all lead the texts in someway; yet my presuppositions are based on what is within each individual texts, then questioned against many.