Is There Anyway To Prevent WW3?

[savagewind]

Whatever we choose to put first in our lives is our god/God..

You have proved his point with this statement. His point was, "Eventually you are bound to start stepping on your own toes".

YOU put the Bible according to the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses first in your life, just like all Jehovah's Witnesses are being taught to put the Bible according to the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses first in their lives.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

Yes, 'free will' to choose does not mean that we go above the law Giver and Creator's available choices. And there are only 'two roads' available. The road that leads to life, or the road that leads off into destruction. You see, since the Earth and everything in it was created by HIm, He gets to make the 'house rules'. You and I get the option of using that 'free will' to choose life or choose destruction . God dignifies us with free will, the power to make decisions of our own rather than having God or fate predetermine what we do.
To a great extent, we can determine our future. The Bible encourages us to “choose life ...by listening to [God’s] voice,” that is, by choosing to obey his commands.
There are only two options from which to choose.

These instructions have not changed. Granted, many people try to divert Bible truths and substitute their own doctrines, but the Bible has not changed.

Let me pose a scenario to you. I give my child two options:

1. You can choose to believe in Bigfoot as I do, without proof, and live with me happily all of your days.
2. You can choose not to believe in Bigfoot, and I will disown you. Actually, scratch that... I will destroy you.

According to you, this is a perfectly acceptable proposition to be making to your children, and I (like you believe God is) would be truly magnanimous in doing so, and I would be offering my child a true and fair choice to be made. Maybe God is simply not the kind of father that would treat His children with a love that wouldn't have him offering surreptitiously ultimatum-like "choices" like the above?

"Son, you can choose whatever you want... but if it isn't what I want, just know that I'm going to destroy you." - best wishes, God

No thanks. I don't choose God for this very reason - because I am told from all directions that He operates WITHOUT REASON. If destruction is the only other option, so be it. Bring it on. I will go wherever I am sent knowing that God gave me, personally, no other acceptable option.

In closing, if you believe you are sent to "witness" to me regarding God and are guided by His hand in such endeavors, then the next time you talk to Him, can you please let Him know I think He's doing a really terrible job and needs either some new material, or to come up with something truly compelling? It's really a constructive criticism I'm trying for here, honestly. I understand He "makes all the rules", but even as a law-maker, if you can't handle this kind of criticism, then you should probably re-think your career choice.

 

[wizanda]

In closing, if you believe you are sent to "witness" to me regarding God and are guided by His hand in such endeavors, then the next time you talk to Him, can you please let Him know I think He's doing a really terrible job and needs either some new material, or to come up with something truly compelling?

lol, did offer something compelling, that matches the the holographic universe theory, most religious text globally, and from first hand experience; yet you were lost for words...

Thus the problem isn't God or some of the original texts; it is the people who've not understood the concepts within them, and have thus diluted everything.

 

[james bond]

(quote)

Hello, Bond... James Bond,,, In my best Pierce Brosnan voice... ha

There is no limit to the people who attempt to predict the future. It is quite the lucrative income source for many sorcerers, psychics, soothsayers, Numerologists, "religious" leaders, philosophers etc. Michel de Notredame is one of many. And don't forget the mayan calendar, et.al.. My bad, I thought we were speaking about Bible prophecies, which are the only ones I am concerned with. There is a difference between the Inspired Writings from God, and those of self-seeking prominence of arrogant men, imo.

take care

I don't think you listened to what I said. I answered all your questions. You should know where I stand. What you're doing is focusing on the Biblical prophecies and I said, 1) Most, if not all, of them have been fulfilled, 2) The major ones that remain are the second coming and Armageddon, 3) It's better to not focus on the prophecies and leave it to the professionals such as the Bible scholars for the correct interpretation and 4) The two most successful prophecisers are Nostradamos and Bruce Bueno de Mesquita. These people were/are not charlatans. To this, I would add, 5) Whatever happens, happens. Meaning we can't live our lives listening and worrying about prophecies. We have to make our own decisions and if an act of God happens, then we have to make do the best we can. It's not something to worry or be concerned about. What is your purpose in focusing on the Biblical prophecies?

You mentioned what's left, but did not explain in detail. Why don't you explain in detail what is suppose to happen and how does it relate to our lives? How does it help people who read the Bible?

Next, you go on to rant about the charlatans and attribute them to me. I'm well aware of them, and did talk about them but I said to avoid those people. They fool the people who read the Bible as well as people who don't. The prophecisers I mentioned are the two most successful and they include the Biblical prophecies. Another word to describe what they do are forecasters. These are serious attempts to forecast the future. The DoD uses Bruce Bueno de Mesquita to consult what he thinks about world situations and what he predicts will happen. He has been correct 100% with his software. He's a university professor and not a charlatan. What you should do is read about him and how it works. They explain what has happened and relate it to today's world. We come to understand what has happened. Nostradamos is more difficult to understand with the translations from French and is a conundrum, but I do think he has forecasted things including part of Armageddon and that these things happened already. (Nostradamos uses astrology, but it's part astronomy. I'm not sure how scientific he was, but I do think he was successful in his forecasts. If he did not tell us, then would you know the things that have happened? We have historical records, but who applies those to Biblical prophecies that we can trust, Mr. Bible Prophecy (in my best Charlton Heston Moses voice)? I don't think the Biblical scholars help us with interpreting history or do they?

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

lol, did offer something compelling, that matches the the holographic universe theory, most religious text globally, and from first hand experience; yet you were lost for words...

Thus the problem isn't God or some of the original texts; it is the people who've not understood the concepts within them, and have thus diluted everything.

I think you misunderstood the reasons I ended up at a loss for words. I'll leave it at that.

 

[wizanda]

I think you misunderstood the reasons I ended up at a loss for words.

Might have misunderstood, not sure, it is just a variable at present; there are too many equations based on what you've said, to make a clear case of your own thinking.

 

[Daisies4me]

Let me pose a scenario to you. I give my child two options:

1. You can choose to believe in Bigfoot as I do, without proof, and live with me happily all of your days.
2. You can choose not to believe in Bigfoot, and I will disown you. Actually, scratch that... I will destroy you.

According to you, this is a perfectly acceptable proposition to be making to your children, and I (like you believe God is) would be truly magnanimous in doing so, and I would be offering my child a true and fair choice to be made. Maybe God is simply not the kind of father that would treat His children with a love that wouldn't have him offering surreptitiously ultimatum-like "choices" like the above?

"Son, you can choose whatever you want... but if it isn't what I want, just know that I'm going to destroy you." - best wishes, God

No thanks. I don't choose God for this very reason - because I am told from all directions that He operates WITHOUT REASON. If destruction is the only other option, so be it. Bring it on. I will go wherever I am sent knowing that God gave me, personally, no other acceptable option.

In closing, if you believe you are sent to "witness" to me regarding God and are guided by His hand in such endeavors, then the next time you talk to Him, can you please let Him know I think He's doing a really terrible job and needs either some new material, or to come up with something truly compelling? It's really a constructive criticism I'm trying for here, honestly. I understand He "makes all the rules", but even as a law-maker, if you can't handle this kind of criticism, then you should probably re-think your career choice.

(quote)

Hi
Let's put things in the proper perspective, if you will.

Why do you think that the earth is not the paradise it was when God put Adam and Eve here to take care of the garden he had put them in to cultivate, care for the animals, and populate? They had everything they needed and then some, for an endless life in paradise. So why is the earth not a paradise today? Adam deliberately broke God's commandment given to Him in the very beginning. He chose to obey Satan , rather than obey God. And in so doing, everyone has died since then. The adamic sin was born to all of Adam's offspring.

ROMANS 5:12 says: “Through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned.”

So then, all humans were facing the death penalty forever. But God provided a means by which they could get out of the eternal death sentence, and be resurrected up to live again, at great cost to Himself.
Why was the Ransom needed?

Do you see now, the sacrifice that God made on behalf of everyone born on earth? Those who don't care, or don't want to seek everlasting life can just go right on like they are doing, and not seek the restoration of life and opportunity to be restored to perfection and live forever on a paradise earth.
That is the choice that you and I and everyone else gets to make according to what we desire in our hearts.
Continue as you are, and try to make God out to be a cruel taskmaster, and don't partake of the future promises, if that is your choice.
The wage sin pays is death.
Sin was not a creation of God, and He provided the Ransom sacrifice for the sin of Adam for all who want to apply it for themselves.

He has been very patient in allowing so many generations to be born, which is why you and I are here--but he didn't have to do that. He could have offed the guilty rebels right then and there, but then neither of us would have ever lived or had the opportunity to live in the paradise of peace that God intended for all of mankind.

John 3:16, most everyone can quote, but they don't often think about what it really means. Please read John 3:16-21, and see if that explains things better for you.
The God of the Bible, Jehovah, is a Merciful God, but He will not forever allow His people to suffer the evil things of the world. He will soon act, on behalf of His loyal ones on earth being persecuted for His Name.

Because Adam sinned, sin and death have affected every imperfect human who has ever lived. That is why the Bible says that “by the trespass of the one man death ruled as king.” But Jehovah showed great undeserved kindness and provided a way to rescue all mankind by means of “the one person, Jesus Christ.” (Romans 5:12, 15, 17)
“Through the obedience of the one person many will be made righteous.” And they can look forward to “everlasting life through Jesus Christ.”—Romans 5:19, 21.

As stated, it is a choice everyone must make. God doesn't force anyone to obey Him. But He will not forevermore allow evil ones to flourish at the expense of the peace and well being of His loyal ones.
Just as a parent, you probably would step in if bullies were harming your child. God has had enough, and very soon, He is going to step in and the entire earth will know it.

2 Thessalonians 1: 6 This takes into account that it is righteous on God’s part to repay tribulation to those who make tribulation for you.

Perhaps these things may alter your preconceived notions that God has no reason for protecting peaceable ones from those who would take away peace from the earth.

Thanks for listening.
May you find peace

 

[Daisies4me]

I don't think you listened to what I said. I answered all your questions. You should know where I stand. What you're doing is focusing on the Biblical prophecies and I said, 1) Most, if not all, of them have been fulfilled, 2) The major ones that remain are the second coming and Armageddon, 3) It's better to not focus on the prophecies and leave it to the professionals such as the Bible scholars for the correct interpretation and 4) The two most successful prophecisers are Nostradamos and Bruce Bueno de Mesquita. These people were/are not charlatans. To this, I would add, 5) Whatever happens, happens. Meaning we can't live our lives listening and worrying about prophecies. We have to make our own decisions and if an act of God happens, then we have to make do the best we can. It's not something to worry or be concerned about. What is your purpose in focusing on the Biblical prophecies?

You mentioned what's left, but did not explain in detail. Why don't you explain in detail what is suppose to happen and how does it relate to our lives? How does it help people who read the Bible?

Next, you go on to rant about the charlatans and attribute them to me. I'm well aware of them, and did talk about them but I said to avoid those people. They fool the people who read the Bible as well as people who don't. The prophecisers I mentioned are the two most successful and they include the Biblical prophecies. Another word to describe what they do are forecasters. These are serious attempts to forecast the future. The DoD uses Bruce Bueno de Mesquita to consult what he thinks about world situations and what he predicts will happen. He has been correct 100% with his software. He's a university professor and not a charlatan. What you should do is read about him and how it works. They explain what has happened and relate it to today's world. We come to understand what has happened. Nostradamos is more difficult to understand with the translations from French and is a conundrum, but I do think he has forecasted things including part of Armageddon and that these things happened already. (Nostradamos uses astrology, but it's part astronomy. I'm not sure how scientific he was, but I do think he was successful in his forecasts. If he did not tell us, then would you know the things that have happened? We have historical records, but who applies those to Biblical prophecies that we can trust, Mr. Bible Prophecy (in my best Charlton Heston Moses voice)? I don't think the Biblical scholars help us with interpreting history or do they?

(quote)

Hi JB
I regret that you have taken my postings as being personally aimed at you. That was never my intent. So please forgive me for not choosing my words more carefully.

You have asked why I feel Bible prophecy to be so important; well-- simply put, it is a sure guide for me, as to things that 'must come to pass' in the world I live in, and it will affect all of those surrounding me.

“When you see all these things, know that he is near at the doors.”—MATTHEW 24:33.

People watch the weather report, why? Usually, because it affects them in one way or another, right?

Truth is, Many people do not see the meaning of what is happening in the world around us.

Because we regularly study God’s Word, we can see that prophecies are being fulfilled. And it serves to strengthen faith in the God of the Bible, when things prophesied thousands of years ago come to pass just as stated, it assures us that the remaining prophecies will also be fulfilled.

Peter accurately said: “In the last days ridiculers will come with their ridicule, proceeding according to their own desires and saying: ‘Where is this promised presence of his? Why, from the day our forefathers fell asleep in death, all things are continuing exactly as they were from creation’s beginning.’” (2 Peter 3:3, 4)
Why do some people react this way? It seems that the more often we see something, the less we pay attention to it. People become 'conditioned' to accept what becomes to them 'the norm'. Don't they?
If the behavior of a close friend changes suddenly, this may shock us. But if the attitudes and morals of people in general change slowly over a long period of time, we may not notice it. A change like this is very dangerous.

Romans 13:11 And do this because you know the season, that it is already the hour for you to awake from sleep, for now our salvation is nearer than at the time when we became believers.
Don't wait until that ship has sailed, to begin to search for yourself the meanings behind prophetic writings.

May you have peace

 

[Daisies4me]

I don't think you listened to what I said. I answered all your questions. You should know where I stand. What you're doing is focusing on the Biblical prophecies and I said, 1) Most, if not all, of them have been fulfilled, 2) The major ones that remain are the second coming and Armageddon, 3) It's better to not focus on the prophecies and leave it to the professionals such as the Bible scholars for the correct interpretation and 4) The two most successful prophecisers are Nostradamos and Bruce Bueno de Mesquita. These people were/are not charlatans. To this, I would add, 5) Whatever happens, happens. Meaning we can't live our lives listening and worrying about prophecies. We have to make our own decisions and if an act of God happens, then we have to make do the best we can. It's not something to worry or be concerned about. What is your purpose in focusing on the Biblical prophecies?

You mentioned what's left, but did not explain in detail. Why don't you explain in detail what is suppose to happen and how does it relate to our lives? How does it help people who read the Bible? Quote)

D: explaining in detail would take much time and space with we have neither of here. Might I recommend a free home Bible study, where you can ask all of your questions, and systematically get them answered by topic? Many persons like yourself do that very thing, in order to get their Bible questions answered. Some agree, some don't. but there is no obligation to the person receiving the benefit of the Bible study. It is a volunteer service offered in over 240 lands around the world, and in over 400 languages and dialects. At your convenience. if you want to have these things 'explained in detail', that would be my best suggestion to you.
------------


Next, you go on to rant about the charlatans and attribute them to me. I'm well aware of them, and did talk about them but I said to avoid those people. They fool the people who read the Bible as well as people who don't. The prophecisers I mentioned are the two most successful and they include the Biblical prophecies. Another word to describe what they do are forecasters. These are serious attempts to forecast the future. The DoD uses Bruce Bueno de Mesquita to consult what he thinks about world situations and what he predicts will happen. He has been correct 100% with his software. He's a university professor and not a charlatan. What you should do is read about him and how it works. They explain what has happened and relate it to today's world. We come to understand what has happened. Nostradamos is more difficult to understand with the translations from French and is a conundrum, but I do think he has forecasted things including part of Armageddon and that these things happened already. (Nostradamos uses astrology, but it's part astronomy. I'm not sure how scientific he was, but I do think he was successful in his forecasts. If he did not tell us, then would you know the things that have happened? We have historical records, but who applies those to Biblical prophecies that we can trust, Mr. Bible Prophecy (in my best Charlton Heston Moses voice)? I don't think the Biblical scholars help us with interpreting history or do they?

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

The adamic sin was born to all of Adam's offspring.

Another issue I have with the whole story. How does it make any sense to punish the entire lineage of a particular "sinner?" It is nonsensical, and if it is entirely representative of God, then God is nonsensical. Why would I choose to follow such a being or entity as this? I didn't ask Him to create me... and why worship Him as my creator when there is absolutely no evidence of His having created me? Who am I even addressing if I address "God?" Am I addressing the same entity that you believe you are? How do I know? How do you know? Aren't there also "False gods" and "Satan" to watch out for? How do you know one from the other if they all communicate in secret to specific individuals, away from the eyes and ears of every other individual? It is a mess of nonsense and obfuscated "truths." It doesn't sit well with me in any way, shape or form. In fact, alarm bells of every type imaginable go off whenever someone starts talking about these sorts of esoteric "truths." My intuition warning me that something foolish is being brought to my attention as "fact." Snake oil, if you will. A nostrum meant to entice me into a situation of infinite chicanery. That is all I have ever been able to see when confronted with the whims and whiles of "believers."

He has been very patient in allowing so many generations to be born, which is why you and I are here--but he didn't have to do that.

Don't you see though? This makes His choice to allow me to live completely arbitrary. At which generation is it "enough?" By what criteria does He make the final decision? What sense does it make to purposefully let more and more and more people (people like me, apparently) make the "wrong" decision? If the change that supposedly takes place when He makes that decision and does His "thing" changes things forever, then why not start it up? Why wait? Again... arbitrary. Or... it isn't even true. It's not going to happen. There is no pending change. The latter is much, much, much more likely.

He will soon act, on behalf of His loyal ones on earth being persecuted for His Name. God has had enough, and very soon, He is going to step in and the entire earth will know it.

I doubt this with every fiber of my being. Note, I am not simply denying it because I don't like the idea. It is just so incredibly IMPLAUSIBLE that you may as well be saying that pigs are literally going to evolve wings, or that someone will soon discover that the moon actually is made of cheese. And I would think it has to give you at least some pause to realize how many times this sort of claim has been made before... and realize that the number of times it has been correct is exactly ZERO. I have an extremely strong feeling (a certainty really) that it will continue to stay zero, forever.

God doesn't force anyone to obey Him. But He will not forevermore allow evil ones to flourish at the expense of the peace and well being of His loyal ones. Just as a parent, you probably would step in if bullies were harming your child.

And here it is... the assumptions made that because I am not "one of the flock" that I am somehow actively hurting the body of believers. How, exactly, do you believe I am doing this? Is my posting on this forum at the "expense of the peace and well being of His loyal ones?" To be sure - if my words cause you distress then you probably need to revisit the strength of your faith. Your words do not distress me one iota. I am a rock as sure as I am in my beliefs - no question. If you feel I am a bully because I make statements and ask questions that raise particularly difficult points about your ideas, then good luck to you in your chosen philosophy. You're probably going to need it. I could call you a bully for threatening me with the wrath of God - to be sure, you attempt to hide this statement using a plethora of euphemistic language - but that is the message in the end. Do you think I feel bullied? Not even close to close.

Perhaps these things may alter your preconceived notions that God has no reason for protecting peaceable ones from those who would take away peace from the earth.

Am I one of those you feel is trying to "take away peace from the earth?" I would ask again, how so is it that I am doing this? Because I don't believe what you believe? Is this another clandestine "bullying" attempt? Bullying... wow. Amazing.

 

[Daisies4me]

Another issue I have with the whole story. How does it make any sense to punish the entire lineage of a particular "sinner?" It is nonsensical, and if it is entirely representative of God, then God is nonsensical. Why would I choose to follow such a being or entity as this? I didn't ask Him to create me... and why worship Him as my creator when there is absolutely no evidence of His having created me? Who am I even addressing if I address "God?" Am I addressing the same entity that you believe you are? How do I know? How do you know? Aren't there also "False gods" and "Satan" to watch out for? How do you know one from the other if they all communicate in secret to specific individuals, away from the eyes and ears of every other individual? It is a mess of nonsense and obfuscated "truths." It doesn't sit well with me in any way, shape or form. In fact, alarm bells of every type imaginable go off whenever someone starts talking about these sorts of esoteric "truths." My intuition warning me that something foolish is being brought to my attention as "fact." Snake oil, if you will. A nostrum meant to entice me into a situation of infinite chicanery. That is all I have ever been able to see when confronted with the whims and whiles of "believers."


Don't you see though? This makes His choice to allow me to live completely arbitrary. At which generation is it "enough?" By what criteria does He make the final decision? What sense does it make to purposefully let more and more and more people (people like me, apparently) make the "wrong" decision? If the change that supposedly takes place when He makes that decision and does His "thing" changes things forever, then why not start it up? Why wait? Again... arbitrary. Or... it isn't even true. It's not going to happen. There is no pending change. The latter is much, much, much more likely.


I doubt this with every fiber of my being. Note, I am not simply denying it because I don't like the idea. It is just so incredibly IMPLAUSIBLE that you may as well be saying that pigs are literally going to evolve wings, or that someone will soon discover that the moon actually is made of cheese. And I would think it has to give you at least some pause to realize how many times this sort of claim has been made before... and realize that the number of times it has been correct is exactly ZERO. I have an extremely strong feeling (a certainty really) that it will continue to stay zero, forever.


And here it is... the assumptions made that because I am not "one of the flock" that I am somehow actively hurting the body of believers. How, exactly, do you believe I am doing this? Is my posting on this forum at the "expense of the peace and well being of His loyal ones?" To be sure - if my words cause you distress then you probably need to revisit the strength of your faith. Your words do not distress me one iota. I am a rock as sure as I am in my beliefs - no question. If you feel I am a bully because I make statements and ask questions that raise particularly difficult points about your ideas, then good luck to you in your chosen philosophy. You're probably going to need it. I could call you a bully for threatening me with the wrath of God - to be sure, you attempt to hide this statement using a plethora of euphemistic language - but that is the message in the end. Do you think I feel bullied? Not even close to close.

Am I one of those you feel is trying to "take away peace from the earth?" I would ask again, how so is it that I am doing this? Because I don't believe what you believe? Is this another clandestine "bullying" attempt? Bullying... wow. Amazing.

(quote)

WOW.... ducking now! ha

Hi Vestgi --- that was some anger! And misplaced, imho. As your interpretations of my statements are a bit different from the real meaning of what I have said to you.

I hear you, and understand that you need to vent. One thing I need to clarify that is important, is that I was NOT calling YOU a 'bully'. You probably are not aware of the issues going on in Russia right now against JW's. You don't know about the beatings, imprisonment, confiscation of homes and property, separation from family members, etc., and other mistreatments---Or you probably don't know about those having suffered many years now, in prisons without medical care of enough food to survive, with no ability to even have an attorney or have their case heard in a court of law in such places as Eretria , south Korea, Kazakhstan, Ukraine, just to name a few...simply for refusing to take up arms in their armies, and for speaking about their faith.
Are you aware of any of these facts? Probably not, or I doubt that you would have misconstrued my words.

What I share with you is not to condemn anyone. but to make people aware of an option that they may not be aware of, that will bring GOOD things, and bring those suffering out of their situations and give them HOPE of better things ahead.
Sorry for any misunderstanding.

Peace

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Another issue I have with the whole story. How does it make any sense to punish the entire lineage of a particular "sinner?" It is nonsensical, and if it is entirely representative of God, then God is nonsensical. Why would I choose to follow such a being or entity as this? I didn't ask Him to create me... and why worship Him as my creator when there is absolutely no evidence of His having created me? Who am I even addressing if I address "God?" Am I addressing the same entity that you believe you are? How do I know? How do you know? Aren't there also "False gods" and "Satan" to watch out for? How do you know one from the other if they all communicate in secret to specific individuals, away from the eyes and ears of every other individual? It is a mess of nonsense and obfuscated "truths." It doesn't sit well with me in any way, shape or form. In fact, alarm bells of every type imaginable go off whenever someone starts talking about these sorts of esoteric "truths." My intuition warning me that something foolish is being brought to my attention as "fact." Snake oil, if you will. A nostrum meant to entice me into a situation of infinite chicanery. That is all I have ever been able to see when confronted with the whims and whiles of "believers."
Don't you see though? This makes His choice to allow me to live completely arbitrary. At which generation is it "enough?" By what criteria does He make the final decision? What sense does it make to purposefully let more and more and more people (people like me, apparently) make the "wrong" decision? If the change that supposedly takes place when He makes that decision and does His "thing" changes things forever, then why not start it up? Why wait? Again... arbitrary. Or... it isn't even true. It's not going to happen. There is no pending change. The latter is much, much, much more likely.
I doubt this with every fiber of my being. Note, I am not simply denying it because I don't like the idea. It is just so incredibly IMPLAUSIBLE that you may as well be saying that pigs are literally going to evolve wings, or that someone will soon discover that the moon actually is made of cheese. And I would think it has to give you at least some pause to realize how many times this sort of claim has been made before... and realize that the number of times it has been correct is exactly ZERO. I have an extremely strong feeling (a certainty really) that it will continue to stay zero, forever.
And here it is... the assumptions made that because I am not "one of the flock" that I am somehow actively hurting the body of believers. How, exactly, do you believe I am doing this? Is my posting on this forum at the "expense of the peace and well being of His loyal ones?" To be sure - if my words cause you distress then you probably need to revisit the strength of your faith. Your words do not distress me one iota. I am a rock as sure as I am in my beliefs - no question. If you feel I am a bully because I make statements and ask questions that raise particularly difficult points about your ideas, then good luck to you in your chosen philosophy. You're probably going to need it. I could call you a bully for threatening me with the wrath of God - to be sure, you attempt to hide this statement using a plethora of euphemistic language - but that is the message in the end. Do you think I feel bullied? Not even close to close.
Am I one of those you feel is trying to "take away peace from the earth?" I would ask again, how so is it that I am doing this? Because I don't believe what you believe? Is this another clandestine "bullying" attempt? Bullying... wow. Amazing.

I'll start with ' wow ' because the whole linage is Not punished. We simply inherited imperfection from father Adam.
We are innocent of what Adam did, and that is why the person of sinless Jesus came to balance the Scales of Justice for us.
Because of our inherited human imperfection we die. We can Not resurrect oneself or another, so if we want to live again we need someone who can resurrect us, and in Scripture that someone is: Jesus.

As to which ' generation ' is enough is shown in the words of Matthew 24:14; Acts of the Apostles 1:8.
Because of the international proclaiming about the Bible's message is now done on a vast world-wide global scale is showing our generation is the ' enough generation '. God's final decision is in connection to Matthew 24:36 that God does know the cut-off date. If the exact date was given then there could be insincere people who would think they could ' jump on the band wagon ' at the last minute. If the end of badness on Earth would have come sooner then we might Not have had the opportunity to be born and think who we would like as Sovereign over us.
So, the 'maximum amount of passing time' allows for the 'maximum amount of people' to make choices.

I find nothing distressing that Earth will become a beautiful paradisical Earth as described at Isaiah 35.
I find nothing distressing that humble meek people will inherit the Earth forever as recorded at Matthew 5:5; Psalms 37:10-11,29
I find nothing distressing that the time is coming when nations will learn war No more <- Micah 4:3-4
I find nothing distressing or threatening about ' repent ' if we do not wish to ' perish ' at 2 Peter 3:9
I find nothing distressing or wrong with giving up bad ways in order to live forever.

Finally, I find at Matthew 25:40 it is how people, when they come in contact with Jesus' spiritual ' brothers, how they treat Jesus ' spiritual ' brothers who are alive on Earth is the basis for Jesus judgement of Matthew 25:37.
To me, the humble figurative ' sheep', No matter where on Earth, will want to treat others by the Golden Rule.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Yet that isn't referring to Christians, Muslims and Rabbinic Jews; it is saying those who have done the work of God, by being righteous and caring for people.
We could assume sheep means they're following the shepherd according to John; yet since John sounds nothing like Yeshua in the Synoptic Gospels...
It still didn't answer the question; if Christians are not invited, why are they so desperate for the end, if they're the ones to be removed?

I find Christians will Not be removed. Please notice who ' remains ' according to Proverbs 2:21-22.
What is the 'spiritual work ' of God according to Matthew 24:14; 28:18-20; Luke 4:43; Acts of the Apostles 1:8.
Sure doing good 'humanitarian works' are commendable, but they are Not the 'spiritual work' of Matthew 24:14
The neighborly good Samaritan was Not a Christian, but in that story the Samaritan helped another in his time of need on a one-on-one basis. In other words, Jesus was teaching us to broaden out, or widen out, in showing love to others when they need help on a one-on-one basis.

Jesus did Not take care everyone while on Earth. Rather, Jesus was giving us a preview, a coming attraction, of what he will be doing earth wide on a grand-global scale during his coming 1,000-year governmental rulership over Earth begins.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

(quote)

WOW.... ducking now! ha

Hi Vestgi --- that was some anger! And misplaced, imho. As your interpretations of my statements are a bit different from the real meaning of what I have said to you.

I hear you, and understand that you need to vent. One thing I need to clarify that is important, is that I was NOT calling YOU a 'bully'. You probably are not aware of the issues going on in Russia right now against JW's. You don't know about the beatings, imprisonment, confiscation of homes and property, separation from family members, etc., and other mistreatments---Or you probably don't know about those having suffered many years now, in prisons without medical care of enough food to survive, with no ability to even have an attorney or have their case heard in a court of law in such places as Eretria , south Korea, Kazakhstan, Ukraine, just to name a few...simply for refusing to take up arms in their armies, and for speaking about their faith.
Are you aware of any of these facts? Probably not, or I doubt that you would have misconstrued my words.

What I share with you is not to condemn anyone. but to make people aware of an option that they may not be aware of, that will bring GOOD things, and bring those suffering out of their situations and give them HOPE of better things ahead.
Sorry for any misunderstanding.

Peace

Understood, and I may have gone a bit too in depth in my reply. I am extremely used to people of various Christian related faiths and denominations "sneaking in" borderline-negative or euphemistic comments that encompass wide and varied groups of people (most often groups or definitions that include myself), make grandiose assumptions that downgrade the humanity of said grouping of people, and then (almost always) if I call them out on the comment and the fact that the comment could be applied to me, they immediately claim I misunderstood and offer various apologetic statements attempting to clarify what it was they were actually targeting. While I, myself, admit to making some of those same types of statements, I do so unabashedly - and let the targets fully know that I am targeting them. If they take issue, we can talk about it - and talk about exactly what it is I said, and why I said it.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

I'll start with ' wow ' because the whole linage is Not punished. We simply inherited imperfection from father Adam.
We are innocent of what Adam did, and that is why the person of sinless Jesus came to balance the Scales of Justice for us.
Because of our inherited human imperfection we die. We can Not resurrect oneself or another, so if we want to live again we need someone who can resurrect us, and in Scripture that someone is: Jesus.

As to which ' generation ' is enough is shown in the words of Matthew 24:14; Acts of the Apostles 1:8.
Because of the international proclaiming about the Bible's message is now done on a vast world-wide global scale is showing our generation is the ' enough generation '. God's final decision is in connection to Matthew 24:36 that God does know the cut-off date. If the exact date was given then there could be insincere people who would think they could ' jump on the band wagon ' at the last minute. If the end of badness on Earth would have come sooner then we might Not have had the opportunity to be born and think who we would like as Sovereign over us.
So, the 'maximum amount of passing time' allows for the 'maximum amount of people' to make choices.

I find nothing distressing that Earth will become a beautiful paradisical Earth as described at Isaiah 35.
I find nothing distressing that humble meek people will inherit the Earth forever as recorded at Matthew 5:5; Psalms 37:10-11,29
I find nothing distressing that the time is coming when nations will learn war No more <- Micah 4:3-4
I find nothing distressing or threatening about ' repent ' if we do not wish to ' perish ' at 2 Peter 3:9
I find nothing distressing or wrong with giving up bad ways in order to live forever.

Finally, I find at Matthew 25:40 it is how people, when they come in contact with Jesus' spiritual ' brothers, how they treat Jesus ' spiritual ' brothers who are alive on Earth is the basis for Jesus judgement of Matthew 25:37.
To me, the humble figurative ' sheep', No matter where on Earth, will want to treat others by the Golden Rule.

And I'll "start" in my reply with the "Golden Rule". It is what I live by - but not because it is part of any religious text or because I was asked or commanded to, but because that it who I am. You may ask if I would like it if others would come at me, questioning my beliefs, challenging my every reply, etc. And, to be honest, the answer is "yes" - in fact, some of the most fun I have had in conversations have entailed exactly that. It truly is the one area in which I feel remiss if I do not "go the distance" - the only area in which I openly challenge people. I am actually an extremely easy-going guy (believe it or not!) in all other areas of my personal life. The "Golden Rule" is something I can definitely get behind. The rest of what you replied with I cannot, in good conscience, do so.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

And I'll "start" in my reply with the "Golden Rule". It is what I live by - but not because it is part of any religious text or because I was asked or commanded to, but because that it who I am.......... The "Golden Rule" is something I can definitely get behind. The rest of what you replied with I cannot, in good conscience, do so.

I would like your thoughts about 'getting behind' Jesus' New command found at John 13:34-35 to have the same self-sacrificing love for others as Jesus did. Jesus loved others ' more ' than self.

 

[Daisies4me]

Understood, and I may have gone a bit too in depth in my reply. I am extremely used to people of various Christian related faiths and denominations "sneaking in" borderline-negative or euphemistic comments that encompass wide and varied groups of people (most often groups or definitions that include myself), make grandiose assumptions that downgrade the humanity of said grouping of people, and then (almost always) if I call them out on the comment and the fact that the comment could be applied to me, they immediately claim I misunderstood and offer various apologetic statements attempting to clarify what it was they were actually targeting. While I, myself, admit to making some of those same types of statements, I do so unabashedly - and let the targets fully know that I am targeting them. If they take issue, we can talk about it - and talk about exactly what it is I said, and why I said it.

(quote)

Hi again, Vesti

I appreciate your forthrightness , and your honesty. I feel very similarly in many instances, and it is good to know where people stand and why.
We do encounter many personalities in life that are much different from our own, with life experiences and beliefs foreign to our own, but I am very glad that we can exchange our thoughts in a peaceable discussion. We may differ on many things, but I certainly respect your right to believe whatever you choose to believe. You do
bring up some very valid points, and one I would like to address with you now, if I may--
On the surface, it would seem unfair for all of a person's offspring to pay for the mistakes of the parent.
But there are mitigating factors that apply in this instance that have to be taken into account from the Biblical perspective, if one chooses to look at it as such.
Often times we liken baking a cake in a pan that has a noticeable dent in it... every cake baked in that pan will have a dent in it also.
But much more serious is the sentence of death that was pronounced upon Adam prior to his siring offspring.
No children were conceived or born in the paradise garden where Adam and Eve were, but were born outside of the paradise, after the death sentence had been given them.
Once he lost human perfection, and began the dying process, he could not pass along to his offspring something that he no longer possessed. All of Adam's offspring were born in sin, as inherited from their Father.
This is the reason God made arrangements for a 'Savior', who could pay the ransom price for sin "once for all time" for any who choose to put faith in the merits of that sacrifice of Jesus' perfect human life.

Does any of this seem reasonable to you now?
God , rather than carrying out the death sentence immediately, allowed them to procreate, and grow old in time, before they eventually died, around 900 years of age. It took a long time for a perfect human body to deteriorate. Our weakened bodies today are so far from perfection, I cannot imagine the strength those first humans must have had, can you?

peace to you

 

[james bond]

(quote)

Hi JB
I regret that you have taken my postings as being personally aimed at you. That was never my intent. So please forgive me for not choosing my words more carefully.

You have asked why I feel Bible prophecy to be so important; well-- simply put, it is a sure guide for me, as to things that 'must come to pass' in the world I live in, and it will affect all of those surrounding me.

“When you see all these things, know that he is near at the doors.”—MATTHEW 24:33.

People watch the weather report, why? Usually, because it affects them in one way or another, right?

Truth is, Many people do not see the meaning of what is happening in the world around us.

Because we regularly study God’s Word, we can see that prophecies are being fulfilled. And it serves to strengthen faith in the God of the Bible, when things prophesied thousands of years ago come to pass just as stated, it assures us that the remaining prophecies will also be fulfilled.

Peter accurately said: “In the last days ridiculers will come with their ridicule, proceeding according to their own desires and saying: ‘Where is this promised presence of his? Why, from the day our forefathers fell asleep in death, all things are continuing exactly as they were from creation’s beginning.’” (2 Peter 3:3, 4)
Why do some people react this way? It seems that the more often we see something, the less we pay attention to it. People become 'conditioned' to accept what becomes to them 'the norm'. Don't they?
If the behavior of a close friend changes suddenly, this may shock us. But if the attitudes and morals of people in general change slowly over a long period of time, we may not notice it. A change like this is very dangerous.

Romans 13:11 And do this because you know the season, that it is already the hour for you to awake from sleep, for now our salvation is nearer than at the time when we became believers.
Don't wait until that ship has sailed, to begin to search for yourself the meanings behind prophetic writings.

May you have peace

Thank you for your explanation. I didn't know what to think earlier. Well, if you feel the way you do about the prophecies, then more power to you. I think we agree on them being forecasts. However, I have not learned how to read the prophecies and see them in the world around us. When one doesn't know, then I don't think one should try to figure Scriptue by themselves. That's because it's so easy to think the wrong thing and be mislead. Thus, I leave the Scripture I do not understand to those more knowledgeable to explain. Once I get the proper interpretation(s), then I can use it to infer other things from the passage.

I relate the prophecies to what I know and get from the prophecisers that I know are the most successful. There are critics of any forecaster, and while their complaints may be valid, I have not found anyone else who explains the prophecies in the Bible. For example, I haven't really seen the antichrist answers from the Bible scholars except for the last antichrist, have you?

Sorry, this has turned out long, but I think it's an interesting subject. My philosophisers go beyond that which is in the Bible.

My two prophecisers have plenty of skeptics, too. The prophecy business comes with its own critics. We usually get those who follow prophecisers as crazies and can be "blown off." You did the same thing. What I try to do is relate them to what I know. Yes, too often, we get the wrong information. Maybe my prophecizers do not match what the Bible says, but they use the Bible prophecies as topics for their forecasts. Bruce Bueno de Mesquita may be 100% right so far, but who's to say he won't be wrong with his next one?

From what I have learned, the following is the way people look at the Bible. This is from the Bible experts at creation.com:

"Creationists are often accused of believing that the whole Bible should be taken literally. This is not so! Rather, the key to a correct understanding of any part of the Bible is to ascertain the intention of the author of the portion or book under discussion. This is not as difficult as it may seem, as the Bible obviously contains:

• Poetry—as in the Psalms, where the repetition or parallelism of ideas is in accordance with Hebrew ideas of poetry, without the rhyme (parallelism of sound) and metre (parallelism of time) that are important parts of traditional English poetry. This, by the way, is the reason why the Psalms can be translated into other languages and still retain most of their literary appeal and poetic piquancy, while the elements of rhyme and metre are usually lost when traditional Western poetry is translated into other languages.
• Parables—as in many of the sayings of Jesus, such as the parable of the sower (Matthew 13:3–23), which Jesus Himself clearly states to be a parable and about which He gives meanings for the various items, such as the seed and the soil.
• Prophecy—as in the books of the last section of the Old Testament (Isaiah to Malachi).
• Letters—as in the New Testament epistles written by Paul, Peter, John, and others.
• Biography—as in the Gospels.
• Autobiography/testimony—as in the book of Acts where the author, Luke, after narrating the Apostle Paul’s conversion on the road to Damascus as a historical fact (Acts 9:1–19), then describes two further occasions when Paul included this conversion experience as part of his own personal testimony (Acts 22:1–21; 26:1–22).
• Authentic historical facts—as in the books of 1 and 2 Kings, etc."

...

"Are any of these chapters prophecy? <=== We're referring to Genesis here

Not in their full context, although two promises of God are prophetic in the sense that their fulfilment would be seen in the future. One of these is Genesis 3:15, which was the pronouncement by God to the serpent (Satan) in metaphorical form: ‘And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her seed; He shall bruise you on the head, And you shall bruise him on the heel.’ (NASB). Many have interpreted the ‘seed’ in this verse as the Messiah, including most evangelicals and even the Jewish Targums4 hence the Talmudic expression ‘heels of the Messiah’5. The Messiah would suffer wounds to His feet (on the Cross), but would completely destroy Satan’s power. This verse also hints at the virginal conception, as the Messiah is called the seed of the woman, contrary to the normal biblical practice of naming the father rather than the mother of a child (cf. Genesis chapters 5 and 11, 1 Chronicles chapters 1–9, Matthew chapter 1, Luke 3:23–38).

The other is Genesis 8:21–22 and 9:11–17,

‘And the LORD said in His heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man’s sake … and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.'"

++++++++

One of the bigger prophecies I am familar with is the antichrist in John. This is always a popular subject. Here's what Thought.co (formerly about.com) says about it:

"The name "antichrist" is only found in 1 John 2:18, 2:22, 4:3, and 2 John 7. The Apostle John was the only Bible writer to use the name antichrist. Studying these verses, we learn that many antichrists (false teachers) will appear between the time of Christ's first and Second Coming, but there will be one great antichrist who will rise to power during the end times, or "last hour," as 1 John phrases it. He will deny that Jesus is the Christ.

He will deny both God the Father and God the Son. He will be a liar and a deceiver."

What Does the Bible Say About the Antichrist?

I read these verses and do not get enough information on who these antichrists are or how many. Thus, it's Nostradamus who has the explanation. There are a bunch of others like you mentioned, but they haven't been as successful. Many skeptics think Nostradamus is too general and that what he says can be interpreted many ways. I don't think many people associated what he said about 9/11 before it happened. That's the way it usually goes unless you want to believe WWIII is coming next and we should worry about it. I don't worry about, but just tuck that in the back of my head. Another of Nostradamus' prophecies says that there will be an accident at LHC and Geneva. It's something to know, but I wouldn't worry about it even if I worked at LHC. Even if what Nostadamus said about the WWIII and LHC comes true, there will still be critics. I think it's even more so with the Bible. For example, if I said, let's learn about a Biblical prophecy today so we could be inspired, I may not get much interest. Instead, if I said, let's learn about the doomsday forecasts of Nostradamos had of the antichirst or to the LHC and Geneva, Switzerland, then I may generate more interest. So, if you get much from the Biblical prophecies, then more power to you.

 

[Daisies4me]

Thank you for your explanation. I didn't know what to think earlier. Well, if you feel the way you do about the prophecies, then more power to you. I think we agree on them being forecasts. However, I have not learned how to read the prophecies and see them in the world around us. When one doesn't know, then I don't think one should try to figure Scriptue by themselves. That's because it's so easy to think the wrong thing and be mislead. Thus, I leave the Scripture I do not understand to those more knowledgeable to explain. Once I get the proper interpretation(s), then I can use it to infer other things from the passage.

I relate the prophecies to what I know and get from the prophecisers that I know are the most successful. There are critics of any forecaster, and while their complaints may be valid, I have not found anyone else who explains the prophecies in the Bible. For example, I haven't really seen the antichrist answers from the Bible scholars except for the last antichrist, have you?




++++++

(quote)
Hi again, JB
Thanks for the explanations. Lets first discuss the 'anti-christ'.

I do not believe the 'antichrist' to be an individual person or entity.
1 John 2:18 "Young children, it is the last hour, and just as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared,..."

“antichrist,” “against or instead of Christ”, refers to anyone who does the following:

Denies that Jesus is the Christ (Messiah) or denies that he is the Son of God.—1 John 2:22

Opposes the Christ, God’s Anointed One.—Psalm 2:1 "Why are the nations agitated And the peoples muttering an empty thing? 2 The kings of the earth take their stand And high officials gather together as one Against Jehovah and against his anointed one

Pretends to be the Christ. Matthew 24:24 For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will perform great signs and wonders so as to mislead,..

Persecutes the followers of Christ, since Jesus views what is done to them as being done to him. Acts 9:5

Falsely claims to be a Christian while practicing lawlessness or deception.—Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’

2 Corinthians 11:13 "For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.
besides speaking of individuals who take such actions as being antichrists, the Bible also refers to them collectively as “the antichrist.” (2 John 7)

1 John 4:3 "But every inspired statement that does not acknowledge Jesus does not originate with God. Furthermore, this is the antichrist’s inspired statement that you have heard was coming, and now it is already in the world."

They promote false ideas related to Jesus. (Matthew 24:9, 11) those who teach the Trinity or that Jesus is Almighty God actually oppose the teachings of Jesus, who said: “The Father is greater than I am.”—John 14:28.

They say that Jesus is their Lord, but do not obey his commands.—Matthew 28:19, 20; Luke 6:46; Acts 10:42

Your thoughts?
thanks

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

I would like your thoughts about 'getting behind' Jesus' New command found at John 13:34-35 to have the same self-sacrificing love for others as Jesus did. Jesus loved others ' more ' than self.

There are certain others I love enough to sacrifice everything for, surely. I would easily and without hesitation lay down my life for my children, and my wife. My father,mother, brother, sister - my brother in law, my best friend, my nephew, my wife's brother or his wife, among others. I might extend this to a stranger, were a situation to present itself in which imminent danger to some person could be prevented by me, but with the side-effect of my possibly incurring that danger myself. But, to be honest, it depends. Were that person someone I knew to be, what I believed, "bad" in some way, honestly I probably would hesitate, I'm not going to lie and pretend I am ultimately "good" and sacrificing, nor do I believe it is plausible to "love" all of your fellow men - especially not as much as one love's himself - this is an unattainable idea in my opinion. If one truly loved all other men as much as he did himself, then wouldn't everything that person needed suddenly become paramount to be provided by that other? I provide for myself, procuring and eating food, making sure I intake water, etc. If I loved another exactly as I loved myself, then wouldn't I have to be doing, or attempting to do those things for them as well?

Maybe a better example - let's say you call the members of your congregation "family", and you claim to love them as you love yourself. One of those members comes to you, explaining that he can't pay his mortgage for the next several months. What do you do? If you loved him as you do yourself, wouldn't you immediately provide for that need if you were able? Surely you would pay your own mortgage in order to take care of yourself? If you loved this other as you did yourself, would you not also then feel obligated to take on those burdens in order to keep up with the love extended to this part of your "self?" Perhaps for a time... but eventually it would drain on you, and you would expect that other to show you some of that love in return, would you not? You would expect them to take on some responsibility, because it is only fair, right? But where does that leave the idea of you loving them as you do yourself? You certainly don't tire of paying your own mortgage in this way, correct? Why do you tire of paying another's mortgage if you love them as you do yourself? Or are there conditions placed on that "love" or the amount of "love?" Of course there are, and for good reason. "Don't feed the bears" and all the reasoning behind that. So you have to admit to not loving your fellow man as you love yourself.

I would dare say even Jesus would have only put up with so much imposition from another individual... his courtesy to them and help given would probably only extend so far. What do you think Jesus would have done if the adultress he saved from the stoning ("Let he who is without sin cast the first stone") had begun following him everywhere, asking for more help with various problems she was having? Do you believe that Jesus would have taken on all of her burdens as requested? If he truly loved her as he loved himself, why wouldn't he? Don't you attempt to always solve your own problems because you care for yourself? Why wouldn't you extend this to another if you truly loved them as you do yourself?