Is there Free Will in Heaven?

[Beaudreaux]

I looked up the word infallible...just in case it is associated with...prophecy.

It is not.

So...god can...be wrong...sometimes? He can...fail?

 

[Nerthus]

I looked up the word infallible...just in case it is associated with...prophecy.

It is not.

Depends on where you look doesn't it?

 

[Thief]

So...god can...be wrong...sometimes? He can...fail?

Shift your perspective.

If you fall down...was that your fault...or God's.
He could have made you like a snake.
Falling down would be difficult, with your belly, already on the ground.
Want to be a snake?...so you can't fall down?

If you build your house against a shoreline, and a tidal wave takes it down...
God's fault?
A bad guy kicks in your door and decides there will no witnesses....
God's fault?

God isn't wrong about anything.
There are reports in scripture that He did change His mind...
and did repent, doing some evil, at given moment, and for cause.

Perhaps what you are really looking for is a discussion that will keep you on the gentle side of God.

How else to deal with...an Almighty.

 

[jonman122]

Shift your perspective.

If you fall down...was that your fault...or God's.
He could have made you like a snake.
Falling down would be difficult, with your belly, already on the ground.
Want to be a snake?...so you can't fall down?

If you build your house against a shoreline, and a tidal wave takes it down...
God's fault?
A bad guy kicks in your door and decides there will no witnesses....
God's fault?

God isn't wrong about anything.
There are reports in scripture that He did change His mind...
and did repent, doing some evil, at given moment, and for cause.

Perhaps what you are really looking for is a discussion that will keep you on the gentle side of God.

How else to deal with...an Almighty.

let me flip this around on your head.

get a new job that is well paying
Gods fault?
win the lottery?
gods fault?
have a wonderful family?
gods fault?

and as for god changing his mind... does that not mean he was wrong and had to change his position? because that is in fact what it means.

how else to deal with the almighty... than to paint him the image of something that you are not but that you strive to be?

 

[Beaudreaux]

God isn't wrong about anything.
There are reports in scripture that He did change His mind...
and did repent, doing some evil, at given moment, and for cause.

.......

 

[Thief]

let me flip this around on your head.

get a new job that is well paying
Gods fault? no
win the lottery?
gods fault? no
have a wonderful family?
gods fault? no

and as for god changing his mind... does that not mean he was wrong and had to change his position? no because that is in fact what it means. no

how else to deal with the almighty... than to paint him the image of something that you are not but that you strive to be?

No to all.
God is the Almighty.
He set all things in motion....and has made allowance for your choices.

You will be dealt with as you have dealt with others.

 

[Thief]

.......

....... to you too

 

[True Faith]

the only problem is you used an example that helped prove our point, if the student didn't know that the teacher was going to fail him but the teacher knew that he was going to fail the student, then the teacher knows about the students future while the student has no idea what the outcome will be. So no matter what he does, he will still fail even if he tries his hardest and gives it his all. THAT is why there is no free will with god.

We have to understand that God is not human, he doesn't behave and act like humans.
he has full knowledge about his creations, past, present and future and that is god's quality.
to understand this test issue, god play role as a Judge, Refry or umpire.
We have to give test as best as we could, show our goodness and practice righteous deeds for best rewards.
we all humans have free will in this life, suppose, we have choice about love or hate neighbors, now, god will not interrupt in decisions, if we make correct decision and always love our neighbors, we will pass in that subject. if we make all decisions properly according to god's commands, we will go to paradise, so, god knows or don't knows really not effect on test of life.
for example, God knows when we will die, it doesn't make effect on our test, similarly other worldly affairs, if god knows won't affect.
If God interrupt our personal decisions or correct them then theory of Free will fail. so, you've to understand god's concepts of free will, life and life after death.
As almighty God, he reserve his rights to forgive sins and accept prayers etc. If we seek guidance and help from god, if we pray, beg to him, he may help and support using his rights of mercy and do favors by forgive our past bad things or change our future bad happenings in to good, but that doesn't effect the original free will test theory, it will stay same as it was.

 

[newhope101]

Is there free will in heaven?
Re bible based beliefs, apparently angels came to earth, took human form, and married women against God's will. So I guess angels can be naughty, so have free will.

Another religion that forbids fornication outside marriage promises a multitude of virgins for the lucky guys that make it to heaven. It appears one is released from earthly commands in heaven and indicates free will.

My overall guess is that you have free will in heaven until you cross the line and then you're out!

 

[jonman122]

No to all.
God is the Almighty.
He set all things in motion....and has made allowance for your choices.

You will be dealt with as you have dealt with others.

i don't approve of your idle threats, or any threats in ANY case, and thats what this is here. If you have nothing better to do than threaten people with damnation, leave. That's not what this is about.

Just because god is almighty doesn't mean he is not subject to logic, just the fact that you think you know who he is or know about him in any way means he is subject to logic and reason and if you even had the tiniest semblence of a clue as to what LOGIC and REASON were, you wouldn't even be here making idle threats.

So if god is literally responsible for nothing that happens upon this earth, as you have just claimed by saying no to all of those things, then what is the point in ever praying to him? whats the point in believing in something tht has and never will have any effect on your life?

I think you should see your local psychologist, you need help.

 

[jonman122]

We have to understand that God is not human, he doesn't behave and act like humans.
he has full knowledge about his creations, past, present and future and that is god's quality.
to understand this test issue, god play role as a Judge, Refry or umpire.
We have to give test as best as we could, show our goodness and practice righteous deeds for best rewards.
we all humans have free will in this life, suppose, we have choice about love or hate neighbors, now, god will not interrupt in decisions, if we make correct decision and always love our neighbors, we will pass in that subject. if we make all decisions properly according to god's commands, we will go to paradise, so, god knows or don't knows really not effect on test of life.
for example, God knows when we will die, it doesn't make effect on our test, similarly other worldly affairs, if god knows won't affect.
If God interrupt our personal decisions or correct them then theory of Free will fail. so, you've to understand god's concepts of free will, life and life after death.
As almighty God, he reserve his rights to forgive sins and accept prayers etc. If we seek guidance and help from god, if we pray, beg to him, he may help and support using his rights of mercy and do favors by forgive our past bad things or change our future bad happenings in to good, but that doesn't effect the original free will test theory, it will stay same as it was.

I couldn't understand a word of this. lack of free will doesn't mean someone is controlling you... It means everything that you're going to do for your entire life is already planned out. And you and every other person i've seen here has said pretty much that, you say god knows everything and knows what you will do for your entire life. But then, just because the bible says "we have free will" or wherever you get this nonsense from, you go against very very basic reasoning and say something absolutely rediculous like "just because he knows all doesnt mean we dont have free will." which is EXACTLY what it means. And how can you say YOU understand god's concept of free will, or even know what it is? You can't, because if you did you'd be able to explain it, and you'd be able to show me god and get him to tell me to my face that this is his idea of free will, and that is that. Unless you can do something to that extent, you have just gone absolutely NOWHERE.

 

[Thief]

i don't approve of your idle threats, or any threats in ANY case, and thats what this is here. If you have nothing better to do than threaten people with damnation, leave. That's not what this is about.

Not a threat....just the obvious result.

Just because god is almighty doesn't mean he is not subject to logic, just the fact that you think you know who he is or know about him in any way means he is subject to logic and reason and if you even had the tiniest semblence of a clue as to what LOGIC and REASON were, you wouldn't even be here making idle threats.

Not a threat.

So if god is literally responsible for nothing that happens upon this earth, as you have just claimed by saying no to all of those things, then what is the point in ever praying to him? whats the point in believing in something tht has and never will have any effect on your life?

Next life...try thinking ahead.

I think you should see your local psychologist, you need help.

You need to pray.

 

[gnostic]

Is there free will in heaven?
Re bible based beliefs, apparently angels came to earth, took human form, and married women against God's will. So I guess angels can be naughty, so have free will.

That's precisely what I said (back in post 159), but sadly got no answer.

What of Genesis 6:1-6, which say that the sons of God, who were supposedly angels, chose to come down to earth and mate with mortal women they saw? They sired children, known as Nephilim, who were supposedly giants, and "heroes of old".

Isn't the actions of these angels that choosing to "sin" be considered free will?

Hopefully someone will answer your post, if not mine.

 

[Beaudreaux]

God isn't wrong about anything.
There are reports in scripture that He did change His mind...
and did repent, doing some evil, at given moment, and for cause.

Dude, how can you not see that you are blatantly contradicting yourself????
GOd is never wrong, but sometimes he repents from doing evil??? Why would he repent if his actions were not wrong?

 

[Beaudreaux]

We have to understand that God is not human, he doesn't behave and act like humans.
he has full knowledge about his creations, past, present and future and that is god's quality.
to understand this test issue, god play role as a Judge, Refry or umpire.
We have to give test as best as we could, show our goodness and practice righteous deeds for best rewards.
we all humans have free will in this life, suppose, we have choice about love or hate neighbors, now, god will not interrupt in decisions, if we make correct decision and always love our neighbors, we will pass in that subject. if we make all decisions properly according to god's commands, we will go to paradise, so, god knows or don't knows really not effect on test of life.
for example, God knows when we will die, it doesn't make effect on our test, similarly other worldly affairs, if god knows won't affect.
If God interrupt our personal decisions or correct them then theory of Free will fail. so, you've to understand god's concepts of free will, life and life after death.
As almighty God, he reserve his rights to forgive sins and accept prayers etc. If we seek guidance and help from god, if we pray, beg to him, he may help and support using his rights of mercy and do favors by forgive our past bad things or change our future bad happenings in to good, but that doesn't effect the original free will test theory, it will stay same as it was.

Let me try to strip this down to it's essense. Please answer me this question. Can you fool God?

 

[Marsh]

I've heard time and time again from Christians that the reason there's so much evil in the world is so that we may possess free will. Without evil, there would be no free will. My questions are:

1) Is there evil in heaven?

2) If not, then does that mean there's no free will in heaven either?

3) If there is free will and no evil in heaven, then why didn't God just make things like that on Earth to begin with?

Very clever! I hope you don't mind if I borrow your logic for my own discussions. Nicely done.

 

[Marsh]

God created angels without a free will to disbelieve or disobey

They are perfect in that they can only obey God....

This isn't true within Christianity. Fallen angels (demons or devils) as Christians prefer to call them chose to disobey God. So in Christianity angels do have free choice. Perhaps this belief is different in Islam.

However, if in your theology angels are perfect because they can only obey God then humans are imperfect because they have free choice. God then chose to make humans imperfect; he chose to allow evil.

If God willed, He could have created mankind the same as He created angels. But that was not His plan.

It seems to me this argument is a way to get around the problem of evil. Without God this is precisely the world I would expect.

Angels are in Heaven and they do not have free will. On the Day of Judgment, believers will be admitted into Heaven by God's Mercy, and they would have free will, but will not disobey God, as God will remove evil from the hearts of all dwellers of Paradise.

So free will isn't that important after all? If God is going to take away free will once we get to Heaven, to assure obedience, then He must think that some humans would otherwise rebel in Heaven.

What you are saying is that He will do in Heaven what He will not do on Earth. You see, that doesn't make sense. I think this free will business is just a ploy to explain away evil on Earth.

 

[Cordoba]

if the student didn't know that the teacher was going to fail him but the teacher knew that he was going to fail the student, then the teacher knows about the students future while the student has no idea what the outcome will be. So no matter what he does, he will still fail even if he tries his hardest and gives it his all. THAT is why there is no free will with god.

A fundamental difference between a "biased" teacher and God is the issue of fairness which is a crucial element in understanding the whole equation

While a teacher may fail a certain student whatever he/she did in the final exam, God does not treat any human being unjustly

He is a Fair and Just God

What we need to do in this world is do our best in the test of life, and not knowing what God knows makes us free from being influenced one way or the other. His knowledge is independent from our point of view of our free will

God will not hold us accountable except for our free choices, and what we do out of forgetfulness or coercion He will not judge us for, only what we do by our free will

 

[credance]

God created Adam different from angels

Adam's mission and that of his descendants is to believe in God and obey Him out of choice and free will

It's a different relation compared to obeying God when there is no alternative, like the case of angels

Mankind were destined to live away from Heaven as a transition phase (the life we live here on earth), then after that return to our Creator where we will be held accountable for what we did with our free will.

In order to be able to survive on earth, where God granted mankind free will to obey or disobey, He gave us means to defend ourselves, like physical strength. Some people use this strength in the right way (self defence), while others may use it the wrong way (aggression)

We have God's Guidance to follow to refine our manners and the way we live on earth, and those who choose to believe and obey God will live a happy life here and in the Hereafter

So the answer is life on earth is different from life in Heaven

Mankind exist because of our natural instinct to survive. We are made of common elements found abundantly in nature yet we have within us an extraordinary ability to analyze, evaluate, and improve our environment. We also have the ability to amass armies to cause destruction and death.
The thing is that most of us know from an early age that none of us get out of here alive. Some of us have more of a problem with our mortality than others.
Many people believe in a deity, or power watching over them making judgement every minute of every day to see if they are worthy of the life that counts which comes after this life. These people don't have freewill because they have been told they are not worthy for some reason or another.
Others know of these people and wonder what the hell they are thinking because they believe in none of their customs.
Sometimes people of very strong beliefs become powerful enough to force their will on others.
Suddenly their beliefs are the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth and everything is riding on the afterlife of this existence.
I don't know where this marvelous thing called life came from but for we who are experiencing it now it is a fleeting thing.
There or those among us that believe after life there is only darkness or nothingness
Most of us believe in some sort of paradise afterwards if we are worthy but with all the restrictions and ease of condemnation most people know they have probably not made a passing grade.
Some of the scariest people in the world are those who think they have passed the test and it gives them the right to judge others.
Without free will men would not be men.
Yen Yang
Yes No
Positive Negative
Everything in nature has an opposite
Most things in nature do not have a choice.
Men have almost infinite choices.

 

[budha3]

1) Is there evil in heaven?
Yes there is free will in heaven, and no there is no free will in heaven. The free will in heaven exist in that we can interact with others who have gone on before us. The reason why there really is no free will in heaven is because God's love is so over powering that you have no choice but to succumb to His will.

2) If not, then does that mean there's no free will in heaven either?
We have free will on earth. You would not have made this post if you did not choose to do it.

3) If there is free will and no evil in heaven, then why didn't God just make things like that on Earth to begin with?
Because we are here to learn. You question is like saying why didn't God make every human being the same race. There would be no learning about love hate forgiveness if we were all the same race. Slaves were bought to the United States in ships where they were neck deep in human waste for six weeks at a time, And now we have a Black president. We've come a long way, but we still have a ways to go, because now that we do have a Black president, the tea party people believe that they should try to take the country back; as if it has gone somewhere. It'll be forty more years before the racist mindset dies off, because most of these people who believe in this manner will be dead. Our hope is in the younger generation. I know I've gotten off the subject somewhat, but I needed to make a point about learning.