Is there Free Will in Heaven?

[Thief]

Wow. That is the fundament axiom behind logic. If you are unable to assert even that something is equal to itself, then there is little you can say that makes any sense at all. Your position is the very definition of illogical. Best of luck to you, friend.

So...the post#217...in it's entirety.... doesn't work for you?

Works for me.

Perhaps there was a detail you would expound upon.

 

[True Faith]

Let me try to strip this down to it's essense. Please answer me this question. Can you fool God?

No, nobody can fool god.

God is master of Universe and greatest Judge.God gave us freedom and free will, we chose good or bad whole life in this world without interfere of god.
On the day of Judgment, our body won't be under our control and it will say truth only, so, God won't have to get bothered prove anything. It's like exam answer sheet, we wrote in this world and we will recognize our records and we couldn't find anybody to blame there except ourselves.

 

[Beaudreaux]

No, nobody can fool god.

Do you really expect me to believe that it is not possible for me to do something that God did not already know I would do?

 

[True Faith]

I couldn't understand a word of this. lack of free will doesn't mean someone is controlling you... It means everything that you're going to do for your entire life is already planned out. And you and every other person i've seen here has said pretty much that, you say god knows everything and knows what you will do for your entire life. But then, just because the bible says "we have free will" or wherever you get this nonsense from, you go against very very basic reasoning and say something absolutely rediculous like "just because he knows all doesnt mean we dont have free will." which is EXACTLY what it means. And how can you say YOU understand god's concept of free will, or even know what it is? You can't, because if you did you'd be able to explain it, and you'd be able to show me god and get him to tell me to my face that this is his idea of free will, and that is that. Unless you can do something to that extent, you have just gone absolutely NOWHERE.

World's all major religions, Jews, Christians, Islam and Hinduism, all religions Almighty God has one quality, knowledge and vision about past, present and future. so, you won't find Almighty god who has no future knowledge.
Which religion God you follow? He must have all time knowledge or he won't be God Almighty.
second, the time calculation for this world or Universe only, Time is created for creations, not for god. his creations getting old, die, born, grow and they depend on time. Time is part of this Universe and God is not part of world/creation. God created time for us, just like he created day and night.
Now, think practical, let's say, last Month, in July, did you ever notice that you didn't have choice and god made decisions for you? I don't think so, normal people make their own decisions but not god, because God suppose to appear front of you or send angel to convince you about decision making, which is not happened normally in this world. That is called free will.

 

[jonman122]

World's all major religions, Jews, Christians, Islam and Hinduism, all religions Almighty God has one quality, knowledge and vision about past, present and future. so, you won't find Almighty god who has no future knowledge.
Which religion God you follow? He must have all time knowledge or he won't be God Almighty.
second, the time calculation for this world or Universe only, Time is created for creations, not for god. his creations getting old, die, born, grow and they depend on time. Time is part of this Universe and God is not part of world/creation. God created time for us, just like he created day and night.
Now, think practical, let's say, last Month, in July, did you ever notice that you didn't have choice and god made decisions for you? I don't think so, normal people make their own decisions but not god, because God suppose to appear front of you or send angel to convince you about decision making, which is not happened normally in this world. That is called free will.

you still don't seem to comprehend anything i've said. i don't care that all of the world's highest religions are all deluded together, that doesn't count as evidence at all. And how does god not being a part of this universe calculate into this anywhere? if he knows what we will do in the future, regardless of his attributes ie. not part of this universe, timeless, eternal, bla bla bla. if he knows what we will do, in any way AT ALL in the future, regardless of his area in his own little universe seperate from our own, that means we don't have free will.

 

[True Faith]

Do you really expect me to believe that it is not possible for me to do something that God did not already know I would do?

You've done everything what every you wanted in past because you had free will, same thing you will do in future, god will not participate or interrupt in your decision making, you just mind your own business.
If you will get Grad A in college or get job promotion, that is your reward and achievement, that could be result of your decisions and if god had vision about what make difference.

When god wanted to make decision about Abraham, Noah and Jesus Christ, peace be upon them all, Allah contacted them thru Angel Gabriel, so, god suppose to do similar if he wants to participated in our decision making. As long as free will we have, we are free to make decisions, god knows future is not effect anything, god can have knowledge of future and same time can't effect to us is possible because he is god, not a human.

 

[Beaudreaux]

You've done everything what every you wanted in past because you had free will, same thing you will do in future, god will not participate or interrupt in your decision making, you just mind your own business.
If you will get Grad A in college or get job promotion, that is your reward and achievement, that could be result of your decisions and if god had vision about what make difference.

When god wanted to make decision about Abraham, Noah and Jesus Christ, peace be upon them all, Allah contacted them thru Angel Gabriel, so, god suppose to do similar if he wants to participated in our decision making. As long as free will we have, we are free to make decisions, god knows future is not effect anything, god can have knowledge of future and same time can't effect to us is possible because he is god, not a human.

Please answer my question. Do you really expect me to believe that it is not possible for me to do something that God did not already know I would do?

 

[True Faith]

you still don't seem to comprehend anything i've said. i don't care that all of the world's highest religions are all deluded together, that doesn't count as evidence at all. And how does god not being a part of this universe calculate into this anywhere? if he knows what we will do in the future, regardless of his attributes ie. not part of this universe, timeless, eternal, bla bla bla. if he knows what we will do, in any way AT ALL in the future, regardless of his area in his own little universe seperate from our own, that means we don't have free will.

***how does god not being a part of this universe calculate into this anywhere?
This universe is a CREATION of god, God is not a creation, he is out of universal (creations) domain.
suppose, a programmer created SUPER MARIO game, he can control full game, he can add, change, update and delete. he is master of the game, he create time setup, light, color, characters, rule and terms of the game etc. game is creation and programmer is creator, so, he is not mechanical part of game. he will stay out side of Nintendo box and control full game.
this is just example to demonstrate the point. God is million time more knowledgeable and powerful than a video game programmer. so, Universe is a Creation like game and time is factor of world only. day and night is only for this world where sun and moon exist. Out side of universe domain, there is no sun, moon, no time factor. etc.

 

[Beaudreaux]

***how does god not being a part of this universe calculate into this anywhere?
This universe is a CREATION of god, God is not a creation, he is out of universal (creations) domain.
suppose, a programmer created SUPER MARIO game, he can control full game, he can add, change, update and delete. he is master of the game, he create time setup, light, color, characters, rule and terms of the game etc. game is creation and programmer is creator, so, he is not mechanical part of game. he will stay out side of Nintendo box and control full game.
this is just example to demonstrate the point. God is million time more knowledgeable and powerful than a video game programmer. so, Universe is a Creation like game and time is factor of world only. day and night is only for this world where sun and moon exist. Out side of universe domain, there is no sun, moon, no time factor. etc.

From your oust it is clear that you do not believe in free will here on earth (for all of us Marios and Luigis ) but to the OP, do you think there will be free will in heaven.

 

[True Faith]

Please answer my question. Do you really expect me to believe that it is not possible for me to do something that God did not already know I would do?

why you expect from me to reply what you are expecting?
I can reply about me, how can I reply about you?
If I say that god is one, it doesn't mean I expect you to believe it, you've free will you can believe in one god, three god or million.
Here we discuss that god almighty has full knowledge, past, present and future. so, if you're Christian or Muslim believer, I can expect you would believe it. so, only you can tell us what you believe and why.

 

[True Faith]

you still don't seem to comprehend anything i've said. i don't care that all of the world's highest religions are all deluded together, that doesn't count as evidence at all. And how does god not being a part of this universe calculate into this anywhere? if he knows what we will do in the future, regardless of his attributes ie. not part of this universe, timeless, eternal, bla bla bla. if he knows what we will do, in any way AT ALL in the future, regardless of his area in his own little universe seperate from our own, that means we don't have free will.

It's your interpretations that god has vision of future mean No free will.
normal people think logical way. You've made all your decisions in year 2009, you can't blame anyone or god for that, you had advantage of free will last year.
Free will and knowledge of future are two different subjects. you mixed both subjects and get confused.
You had free will in year 2009, that is the fact, did god send any angel or messenger to you for decision making issue? NO, that mean you do have free will now and God has all knowledge.

 

[jonman122]

It's your interpretations that god has vision of future mean No free will.
normal people think logical way. You've made all your decisions in year 2009, you can't blame anyone or god for that, you had advantage of free will last year.
Free will and knowledge of future are two different subjects. you mixed both subjects and get confused.
You had free will in year 2009, that is the fact, did god send any angel or messenger to you for decision making issue? NO, that mean you do have free will now and God has all knowledge.

you have absolutely no idea what free will is, do you?

 

[True Faith]

From your oust it is clear that you do not believe in free will here on earth (for all of us Marios and Luigis ) but to the OP, do you think there will be free will in heaven.

what is definition of free will in this world to you?
If your neighbor has vision and he can see your next 6 months future and he is out of country and can't contact you. how can it effect on your free will ?
it will effect only if your neighbor tell you about vision to you but as long as he hide and you make your own decision, it's call free will , you believe it or not.
Now, just think that neighbor is a not a human but God Almighty.
BTW, I do believe in Free will in this world and in heaven after life, there would be different type of free will. you may have best of best 100 type of foods and fruit and other items available, you will have free will to chose them, that type of free will.

 

[True Faith]

you have absolutely no idea what free will is, do you?

Free will mean you have freedom to chose between right and wrong, true and false, good and bad.
when I make decision, god will not send angel or messenger or appear and interrupt in my decision making.
do you have different type of free will?

 

[Beaudreaux]

Please answer my question. Do you really expect me to believe that it is not possible for me to do something that God did not already know I would do?

why you expect from me to reply what you are expecting?
I can reply about me, how can I reply about you?
If I say that god is one, it doesn't mean I expect you to believe it, you've free will you can believe in one god, three god or million.
Here we discuss that god almighty has full knowledge, past, present and future. so, if you're Christian or Muslim believer, I can expect you would believe it. so, only you can tell us what you believe and why.

Fair enough. Let's try it this way. Do YOU really believe that it is not possible for you to do something that God did not already know you would do?

 

[Beaudreaux]

Free will mean you have freedom to chose between right and wrong, true and false, good and bad.
when I make decision, god will not send angel or messenger or appear and interrupt in my decision making.
do you have different type of free will?

Free will is the ability to select and execute an action from a set of possible options that is greater than one. When a person has only one possible option open to them, they cannot exercise free will. In fact, we often say of such situations that the person "had no choice". Would you agree?

 

[True Faith]

Fair enough. Let's try it this way. Do YOU really believe that it is not possible for you to do something that God did not already know you would do?

Allah has told us in islam that Allah has fulll knowledge of everything and he has given free will in this life, Mulsims beleive that Allah has power on everything, he can have knowledge of our futures and same time he can give us free will, it's very easy for him. so, if your mind can't accept it than you under estimate god's power, wisdon and capability.
if god has created Galaxies, universe, sky and earth etc, it's very small things to have knowledge of future and same time give free will.
Without any doubt I really do believe that it is not possible for me to do something that God did not already know I would do, but same time I also know that my decisions are not preplanned by anyone, I make choice myself good or bad I take responsibility of good and bad decisions I've made, I thankful If I have done good things in life, I blame none but myself for bad deeds. It's Illogic and Stupid if someone argue that god failed him in exam or make him loser or make him failure etc stuff, does it possible? If god make decisions for us than we all humans act like angels because god is best of best decision maker, If god make decisions then no one become wrong doer, failure or stupid in world.

 

[PolyHedral]

if god has created Galaxies, universe, sky and earth etc, it's very small things to have knowledge of future and same time give free will.

Creating matter is trivial compared to breaking logic. Knowing the future and giving us free will simultaneously is a contradiction, and if that contradiction is true, all argument, for and against, becomes meaningless.

 

[Beaudreaux]

Without any doubt I really do believe that it is not possible for me to do something that God did not already know I would do, but same time I also know that my decisions are not preplanned by anyone, I make choice myself good or bad I take responsibility of good and bad decisions I've made, .

A choice is when someone makes a selection from more than one possible action. It follows then that in any situation where a person has only one possible action, choice is not possible.

In any given situation, God knows the one thing you're going to do and it is impossible for you to do anything other than that. You freely admit this. In such a situation, by definition, choice cannot happen. I understand that it may really, really FEEL like a choice, cannot it cannot be.

 

[True Faith]

A choice is when someone makes a selection from more than one possible action. It follows then that in any situation where a person has only one possible action, choice is not possible.

In any given situation, God knows the one thing you're going to do and it is impossible for you to do anything other than that. You freely admit this. In such a situation, by definition, choice cannot happen. I understand that it may really, really FEEL like a choice, cannot it cannot be.

For example, If I get vision about your future and I can see what restaurant you will go tonight, what will you order for dinner and how much you will tip to waiter.
How can you prove that you don't have free will tonight over your choice of restaurant, ordering dinner and tipping or not tipping waiter. If it is not your free will, who will select restaurant, who will decide order and tip to waiter. if you will go for dinner alone without me and god, how can you prove it's not free will in this example?