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Is There Proof God Exists????

Bird123

Well-Known Member
*Raises hand*

I have two questions at this point. 1) Are those the only two possibilities? And 2) isn't this a false dichotomy?


Nothing cold or mechanical about it. It is what it is, entirely indifferent.


And what about modern, high tech people with low intelligence or poor, intelligent people who are barely surviving?


What? That's one of the biggest non-sequiturs I've ever read.


Is that all this argument boils down to? "Life appears to have meaning, therefore God exists"?

Firstly, even if there was "more than evolution going on" does not mean that that is a "goal to life". Secondly, even if there were a supposed "goal to life" that in no way demonstrates or adds credibility to the notion of a God or Gods.
Clearly then, it means there is much more to discover. To attain more knowledge is a never ending goal. Those who claim to know it all, never really do. There is so much more to learn. Shouldn't one explore all possibilities including a notion that God does exist?? To close that view without concrete proof otherwise would narrow the capabilities of discover. Discovery can surprise at times.
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
Clearly then, it means there is much more to discover. To attain more knowledge is a never ending goal. Those who claim to know it all, never really do. There is so much more to learn. Shouldn't one explore all possibilities including a notion that God does exist?? To close that view without concrete proof otherwise would narrow the capabilities of discover. Discovery can surprise at times.

Being open-minded about the possibilities of things being true is entirely different to trying to prove every possibility false in order to find the correct one.

This is how science works. If something has no means to measure it or quantify it, it is not really worth testing for. If there is no reason whatsoever to assume the existence of something in science, it's existence does not need to be acknowledged. By your logic, we would have to test and disprove every possibility before reaching a conclusion, which is absurd when you think about the near infinite number of possibilities there could be for just about anything. Did this rock form through erosion and time? Well, it probably did, but we would need to disprove all other possibilities - including the notion that it was shaped by magical pixies - before we reach a conclusion. Do you honestly think this is the best means by which to discern the truth?

One of the key principles of science is this: follow where the evidence goes. If the evidence does not lend itself to a particular conclusion, then that conclusion will not be explored. Science is not interested in what is "possibly" true, it's only interested in what is demonstrably true. This is the way it works, and this is what makes it so effective.
 

jarofthoughts

Empirical Curmudgeon
My personal evidence is from my Guru, because I know he is God Realized. Don't ask me how I just know. I have my reasons for knowing. Obviously the evidence wouldn't show itself until you began to search for God. Until then it will probably not show.

Personal experience is not evidence. Have you considered the possibility that you might be delusional?

They don't know if those nuns were God Realized. They may have been creating feelings in the brain but Samadhi is altogether different then what they were experimenting with.

Yup. No True Scotsman. Just as I predicted. :facepalm:

I guess you didn't listen to a word I said. It's not that hard to understand.

Mate, when you blatantly misrepresent the scientific method and try to use it to gather some kind of credibility for your pseudoscience, then saying that you don't understand it is the kindest and most charitable thing I can do.

No it doesn't for the reasons I've already explained to you.

You can't just decide for yourself what science is and isn't and then expect others to accept that. We have a very clear definition of what science is, and the stuff you're doing ain't it.

How many times do I have to repeat myself. The true evidence is within you by banishing the ego and experiencing Superconsciousness.

I really wish you WOULD stop repeating yourself, but it appears you have no actual arguments. Oh, and what you are describing is not evidence, even if it did work.

Well it's true. I guarantee if they experimented long enough with some of the Yogi's in India they would find things they have yet to find. I guarantee it.

Right. Well, you can always send these Yogis to James Randi. Let's see if they pass his tests first.

There was no reason to believe that there was other solar systems besides our own but as science evolved and found out more not only was there more solar systems but there are more galaxies as well. You see just because we haven't seen it yet does not mean it doesn't exist.

But none of that means that we should pay any attention to your personal delusion. You are just one of many who are convinced their own little supernatural pseudoscience is correct, but like all the others you have NO independent evidence, and yet you expect people to spend years of their life proving you wrong? Sodd that.

But I do have evidence, because I have gone within. Along with others like my Guru. You would have evidence too if you actually tried this too.

You seem utterly unaware of what scientific evidence is... :areyoucra

No! I already told you Samadhi is God realization and there is no machine out there that can create this. Reason being is it is an experience beyond the brain and body, and more real and freeing than any other human experience can offer.

You missed the point.
I said IF it could reproduce the exact same experience, would you THEN accept that you are being delusional about this?
 

jarofthoughts

Empirical Curmudgeon
Untrue as Yogi's have proven to stop their breath and then reenter their bodies at a later given time. They literally die and travel in their soul on purpose. Again this can be experienced in deep meditation.

Right. This actually sounds like something we can falsify.

Let's get this clear:
Do you mean to say that these Yogi can travel anywhere in their souls and observe things anywhere in the world?

Is that your claim?
 

Kriya Yogi

Dharma and Love for God
Personal experience is not evidence. Have you considered the possibility that you might be delusional?

Nope. In fact I'm more aware in those situations



Yup. No True Scotsman. Just as I predicted. :facepalm:

It said nowhere in that site you gave me that these nuns could enter samadhi. I'm sure some meditative states can be replicated somewhat if not fully, but there is no way they can replicate full immersion with spirit.


Mate, when you blatantly misrepresent the scientific method and try to use it to gather some kind of credibility for your pseudoscience, then saying that you don't understand it is the kindest and most charitable thing I can do.

Well like I said the Yogi's have in their own way have done every step of the scientific method with these techniques. The only thing lacking in your eyes is that it was done and documented by the scientific community. I say this is not needed if you can prove it for yourself. I would also say that if Yogi's consistently say they God can be found then it might be worth their time to explore these techniques further. That's just me though.



You can't just decide for yourself what science is and isn't and then expect others to accept that. We have a very clear definition of what science is, and the stuff you're doing ain't it.

That's fine you don't have to accept it as such. I know for myself that it is scientific, and as much as I wish I could make you or others see this it doesn't matter as long as I know it is.


I really wish you WOULD stop repeating yourself, but it appears you have no actual arguments. Oh, and what you are describing is not evidence, even if it did work.

It sure is evidence if you experienced it. Your problem is you rely solely on external perception. Internal perception is where God can be seen.


Right. Well, you can always send these Yogis to James Randi. Let's see if they pass his tests first.

If I could I would, seriously.


But none of that means that we should pay any attention to your personal delusion. You are just one of many who are convinced their own little supernatural pseudoscience is correct, but like all the others you have NO independent evidence, and yet you expect people to spend years of their life proving you wrong? Sodd that.

It's not a personal delusion. If you know nothing about it then its not cool to assume its personal delustion. Well the reason evidence evades everyone is that it can only be sought out individually like I've been saying. Therefore Saints know and others that haven't done what they have do not.



You seem utterly unaware of what scientific evidence is... :areyoucra

Sure I do. I've already been over this. Let's just drop it already since you can't grasp what I'm saying.


You missed the point.
I said IF it could reproduce the exact same experience, would you THEN accept that you are being delusional about this?

My point in my last post is that the God helmet could not replicate God's spirit and the expansional and extremely blissful out of body experience. It's not possible to have a man made thing do that, for anyone who has not experienced it would not know what it is like at all.
 

Kriya Yogi

Dharma and Love for God
Right. This actually sounds like something we can falsify.

Let's get this clear:
Do you mean to say that these Yogi can travel anywhere in their souls and observe things anywhere in the world?

Is that your claim?

Yes that is true. My Guru has told known of experiences happening all over the world and then have them validated by witnesses at the event.
 

AxisMundi

E Pluribus Unum!!!
Biblical concept??? Did I ask you to read or base God on holy books??? All I suggested was for you to discover on your own. You don't want to. Great! I want you to choose it all for yourself. You don't need to follow or hang on me. I'm not your mother. You are well capable of standing on your own two feet. One can moan and complain but the discovery of knowledge of any kind does take work. Sometimes it isn't always successful right away. Those who discover things don't give up so easily. I do not care about beliefs. Your belief that God does not exist runs so deep into your soul that you no longer look at the possibilities. That isn't good science now is it????

Off to the ignore bin with the other hypocrits and intellectually bankrupt.
 

jarofthoughts

Empirical Curmudgeon
It said nowhere in that site you gave me that these nuns could enter samadhi. I'm sure some meditative states can be replicated somewhat if not fully, but there is no way they can replicate full immersion with spirit.

They belong to a different faith. Of course they wouldn't call it that.
And if we did find a yogi who could and he tried it and said it was exactly the same experience then you'd find some other excuse like "Oh, but HE wasn't a real Yogi" or "He didn't do it exactly right".

Well like I said the Yogi's have in their own way have done every step of the scientific method with these techniques. The only thing lacking in your eyes is that it was done and documented by the scientific community. I say this is not needed if you can prove it for yourself.

The scientific method requires independent evidence, something which you are sorely lacking. "Proving it for yourself" isn't good enough. People have fervently believed all kinds of things and they also claimed that they had experienced it themselves. That doesn't make it evidence. That makes it an anecdote and anecdotes are not evidence.

That's fine you don't have to accept it as such. I know for myself that it is scientific, and as much as I wish I could make you or others see this it doesn't matter as long as I know it is.

If you mean something completely different with the word science than everyone else, guess who is wrong?

It sure is evidence if you experienced it. Your problem is you rely solely on external perception. Internal perception is where God can be seen.

Internal perception (if that's even an expression) is a mish-mash of delusionary impressions bestowed upon us by our brain. And it fools us all the time mate. Sorry.

If I could I would, seriously.

Well, ask them the next time you talk with them. If they really are so sure of their convictions they should have no problems putting them to the test.

It's not a personal delusion. If you know nothing about it then its not cool to assume its personal delustion. Well the reason evidence evades everyone is that it can only be sought out individually like I've been saying. Therefore Saints know and others that haven't done what they have do not.

A delusion can be defined as "a false belief strongly held in spite of invalidating evidence", and so far all the evidence is against your claims.

Sure I do. I've already been over this. Let's just drop it already since you can't grasp what I'm saying.

Scientific evidence is expected to be empirical and properly documented in accordance with scientific method such as is applicable to the particular field of inquiry. See where you went wrong?

My point in my last post is that the God helmet could not replicate God's spirit and the expansional and extremely blissful out of body experience. It's not possible to have a man made thing do that, for anyone who has not experienced it would not know what it is like at all.

I think you have a problem with hypothetical questions so I'll try again:
I'm not claiming that the God Helmet DOES produce the same experience but IF the God Helmet DID exactly that, would you THEN accept that your belief is delusional?
 

jarofthoughts

Empirical Curmudgeon
Yes that is true. My Guru has told known of experiences happening all over the world and then have them validated by witnesses at the event.

Right. So they could enter the soul, float into my room and tell me which book is standing on the shelf above my computer?
Is that your claim?
 

Kriya Yogi

Dharma and Love for God
They belong to a different faith. Of course they wouldn't call it that.
And if we did find a yogi who could and he tried it and said it was exactly the same experience then you'd find some other excuse like "Oh, but HE wasn't a real Yogi" or "He didn't do it exactly right".

No I just know it wouldn't work. A true God Realized soul would say it comes no where near the true experience. I guarantee it.

The scientific method requires independent evidence, something which you are sorely lacking. "Proving it for yourself" isn't good enough. People have fervently believed all kinds of things and they also claimed that they had experienced it themselves. That doesn't make it evidence. That makes it an anecdote and anecdotes are not evidence.

It is good enough for the individual and that is all that matters.


If you mean something completely different with the word science than everyone else, guess who is wrong?

I'm just saying that there are things in the world that will be known as scientific to the public in the future. Just as gravity was scientific and existed before we studied it. The same goes for certain types of meditation revealing God's presence.


Internal perception (if that's even an expression) is a mish-mash of delusionary impressions bestowed upon us by our brain. And it fools us all the time mate. Sorry.

Believe what you want. With this perception then you might as well discount all your memories and your rational thoughts for they could be delusional too. If you experienced what I'm talking about I guarantee you would know its not a delusion.

Well, ask them the next time you talk with them. If they really are so sure of their convictions they should have no problems putting them to the test.

If God willing then yes it will happen eventually.

A delusion can be defined as "a false belief strongly held in spite of invalidating evidence", and so far all the evidence is against your claims.

Yeah and this definition does not relate to what I'm talking about at all.


Scientific evidence is expected to be empirical and properly documented in accordance with scientific method such as is applicable to the particular field of inquiry. See where you went wrong?

Well this just means it will be accepted universally as true because the scientific community deemed it as science. One day God realization will become part of that scientific list. Until then Yogi's who have used the techniques and have found God will know before the general public does.


I think you have a problem with hypothetical questions so I'll try again:
I'm not claiming that the God Helmet DOES produce the same experience but IF the God Helmet DID exactly that, would you THEN accept that your belief is delusional?

If it did, that would be quite a feat and that machine would be widely desired. To the point of causing wars. The state I'm talking about is heavenly and is the freeing of your soul into spirit. You become immersed with all of creation and its blissful and more beautiful beyond any comprehension, so if that machine could reproduce Heaven or God Realization then it would be the most sought after product right now I guarantee that for sure.
 
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Kriya Yogi

Dharma and Love for God
Right. So they could enter the soul, float into my room and tell me which book is standing on the shelf above my computer?
Is that your claim?

They don't necessarily have to float in your room. To them space and time is nonexistant. They can put their consciousness on any given point in the universe and see what is going on there at any given time so yes they could do all that and they could tell you what you would do at any given time in the future. They are one with God so they can see the future, past, present, and everything all as one. My Guru has proved this many times, predicting peoples future and future events many many times. He also would know what one of his disciples was doing at any given time. There was nothing short of his spiritual sight. Being God Realized is what makes him credible to have the title and responsibilities as one that guides others to God.
 
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Helio

Member
YES, there is proof of GOD, but you will have to stop looking at the ''outside'' world and more at the ''innerside'' world...(if you really intent to find him that his).
 

Midnight Pete

Well-Known Member
YES, there is proof of GOD, but you will have to stop looking at the ''outside'' world and more at the ''innerside'' world...(if you really intent to find him that his).


Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, "The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation, nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within you."
Luke 17:21
 

PolyHedral

Superabacus Mystic
They can put their consciousness on any given point in the universe and see what is going on there at any given time so yes they could do all that and they could tell you what you would do at any given time in the future.
Rather technical question: Does this mean they can travel faster than light? :D
 

jarofthoughts

Empirical Curmudgeon
They don't necessarily have to float in your room. To them space and time is nonexistant. They can put their consciousness on any given point in the universe and see what is going on there at any given time so yes they could do all that and they could tell you what you would do at any given time in the future. They are one with God so they can see the future, past, present, and everything all as one. My Guru has proved this many times, predicting peoples future and future events many many times. He also would know what one of his disciples was doing at any given time. There was nothing short of his spiritual sight. Being God Realized is what makes him credible to have the title and responsibilities as one that guides others to God.

Right. That sounds falsifiable to me.

Have him figure out which book I have on the shelf above my computer and get back to me. Title and author will do nicely. To make the test fair I'll make sure that only one book is on the shelf.

Hoping to hear from you soon.
 

Kriya Yogi

Dharma and Love for God
Rather technical question: Does this mean they can travel faster than light? :D

Yes it does. To God or anyone that is one with him there is no time and space. Which means they can see things that seem like light years away from us. Distance is an illusion.
 

Kriya Yogi

Dharma and Love for God
Right. That sounds falsifiable to me.

Have him figure out which book I have on the shelf above my computer and get back to me. Title and author will do nicely. To make the test fair I'll make sure that only one book is on the shelf.

Hoping to hear from you soon.

I can't guarantee I can get him to do this, but I will ask him.

I prayed and asked him to show me what book it might be. Is it a spiritual book?
 
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PolyHedral

Superabacus Mystic
Yes it does. To God or anyone that is one with him there is no time and space. Which means they can see things that seem like light years away from us. Distance is an illusion.
Then causality no longer applies. Causes are no longer guaranteed to precede their events. Paradoxes may be possible, so be careful. :D

Also, I'm surprised that you haven't bought this week's winning lottery ticket yet.
 
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