Is There Proof God Exists????

[jarofthoughts]

They know God. The inventor of science.

This has been dealt with below by others. In short; you are wrong.

I'm really sick of this argument. Again it has nothing to do with true spiritual experiences. This is the last time I'll acknowldege this worthless argument. It has no bearing on true spiritual experiences and whether God exists or not.

No True Scotsman much? The fact that we can reproduce "spiritual" experiences in a lab and can even describe in detail the physiological conditions that lead to it utterly refutes these so called experiences of "divine presence".

In order for this to be pseudo science it has to be a belief, but if these are KNOWN as true ways to God then they are not beliefs and are in fact scientific.

It becomes more and more clear to me that you do not know the first thing about what science is. Again, your claims fit the bill of pseudoscience PERFECTLY.

 

[Kriya Yogi]

This has been dealt with below by others. In short; you are wrong.

Science is seen as created by man, but everything that is an idea of man's mind was first an idea of God's. This is fact and when you or anyone else finds God in this life or a future one you will know this to be true as well.

No True Scotsman much? The fact that we can reproduce "spiritual" experiences in a lab and can even describe in detail the physiological conditions that lead to it utterly refutes these so called experiences of "divine presence".

Again they are not the same spiritual experiences. They cannot reproduce an out of body experience where the soul reunites with God's omnipresent, omniscient, blissful, and expansive consciousness. Tell them to throw the helmet on a true God realized soul and see what happens.

It becomes more and more clear to me that you do not know the first thing about what science is. Again, your claims fit the bill of pseudoscience PERFECTLY.

Yes I do. The problem here is others know Kriya Yoga to be a science, but just because it hasn't been documented by scientists does not mean its not scientific. Just as there were billions of stars existing before man researched them, the same goes for God's presence in man. Scientists just have been looking and experimenting in the wrong ways, with the wrong techniques, and with the wrong people. Doesn't mean its not true, and that God does not exist. It doesn't mean Kriya Yoga does not work. That would be like saying there was no such thing as other galaxies in this universe because scientists didn't find them out yet. Its faulty logic. The thing is though is that these techniques have been experimented by spiritual saints who are in essence the scientists and they all say that Kriya Yoga is a direct path that WILL lead to God Realization. Therefore it is a SCIENCE and not a pseudo science, because it is known to work with every human being that partakes of it.

To every doubter out there, meditate on God through Kriya Yoga and your proof of God's existance will begin to show itself. The proof is within!!!

 

[Kriya Yogi]

Funny how eveyone BUT the scientific community thinks it's science.

That's because the scientific community has not researched it yet. If they did they would be astonished by their findings and would change their whole concept of everything spiritually. The scientific community is not the end all be all for everything that is scientific. It just means they haven't gotten to it yet, but Yogi's have already beat them to it, and is why they have answers that scientists don't. Yogi's experiment within and when they find God have all the answers and therefore are not limited to physical experimentation like the scientists you are talking about are.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

That's because the scientific community has not researched it yet. If they did they would be astonished by their findings and would change their whole concept of everything spiritually. The scientific community is not the end all be all for everything that is scientific. It just means they haven't gotten to it yet, but Yogi's have already beat them to it, and is why they have answers that scientists don't. Yogi's experiment within and when they find God have all the answers and therefore are not limited to physical experimentation like the scientists you are talking about are.

Right you are my friend. Also, don't forget that the Greys have also found this pathway to God. They've been working with the CIA for decades to bring this knowledge to the peoples of the Earth, but the U.S. Government (as usual) is resisting their efforts. However, when the Age of Aquarius arrives in 2012, Nostradamus' final prophecies will come to fruition, and this knowledge will instantly be dispersed to all people via the Singularity. A new age of peace, lasting a thousand years will finally arrive, despite the efforts of the Freemasons and Trilateral Commission.

 

[Kriya Yogi]

Because the claim that there even is a god has absolutely zero credibility and is backed by no evidence.

Utterly untrue. God's evidence is everywhere. The fact you have a consciousness full of complexity and yet systematic to its core shows that you are apart of an infinite intelligent consciousness. Furthermore the real proof of God's existance is within when you uncover him within yourself. Many Yogi's say he exists within yet you won't take any of their words for it. Go ahead and ignore the wise and experienced ones that did the work to uncover God though. I find it more wise to allow myself to disprove or prove their actions and words for myself by doing what they did, then if they are wrong then at least I know. Instead of saying ahhh you know the whole bunch is a bunch of liars without any actions or experimentation on your part to prove them right or wrong. To do that is most unwise.

 

[Kriya Yogi]

Right you are my friend. Also, don't forget that the Greys have also found this pathway to God. They've been working with the CIA for decades to bring this knowledge to the peoples of the Earth, but the U.S. Government (as usual) is resisting their efforts. However, when the Age of Aquarius arrives in 2012, Nostradamus' final prophecies will come to fruition, and this knowledge will instantly be dispersed to all people via the Singularity. A new age of peace, lasting a thousand years will finally arrive, despite the efforts of the Freemasons and Trilateral Commission.

I'm unaware of what pathway you speak of and how the government is withholding this from us? Unless you are not being serious here. I know that Kriya Yoga is being spread like wildfire all throughout the world and has been for the last century. It will only get bigger and there is nothing and government can do to stop it.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I'm unaware of what pathway you speak of and how the government is withholding this from us? Unless you are not being serious here. I know that Kriya Yoga is being spread like wildfire all throughout the world and has been for the last century. It will only get bigger and there is nothing and government can do to stop it.

Hallelujah my brother! The efforts of our alien brothers are, indeed, spreading across the world like a holy virus. The Truth cannot, and will not, be stopped by those who wish to keep the soul of man locked away in the dungeon of reason and slaved to materialism. Once the quantum singularity reaches the threshold, the collective prophecies of apocalypse will converge and the third eye of all men will open to reveal the face of God.

 

[Kriya Yogi]

Hallelujah my brother! The efforts of our alien brothers are, indeed, spreading across the world like a holy virus. The Truth cannot, and will not, be stopped by those who wish to keep the soul of man locked away in the dungeon of reason and slaved to materialism. Once the quantum singularity reaches the threshold, the collective prophecies of apocalypse will converge and the third eye of all men will open to reveal the face of God.

It really sounds to me that you are mocking me. I never brought government into this, you did. Government has nothing to do with what I'm saying. People's ignorance is what will keep them tied to materialism and a dungeon of ego not anything else.

 

[AxisMundi]

Don't you understand what I'm doing????? I don't want you to believe. I want you to DISCOVER FOR YOURSELF!!! The only one who can take the steps necessary is you. I can light the way, give you a starting point but it's all up to you. Freedom to choose is necessary for true learning. CHOOSE!! Most gods and religions are created by people. The reason is deep down, we all know God. I did not create God. I don't have the capability. It's a bit of a stretch just to understand at times. God is beyond mankind. We are truly ants.

And yet you talk of non-existant "facts" and as if your god truely exists.

We all know what you're doing, the same thing every other prosetylizer does.

"Spreading the word".

I find it not only offensive in assuming that people have NOT tried, but that we are also somehow less intelligent as well for "failing to find god".

I found your god in my youth and found him lacking, not only in love, but every other biblical concept as well from some demiurge right on up.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

It really sounds to me that you are mocking me. I never brought government into this, you did. Government has nothing to do with what I'm saying. People's ignorance is what will keep them tied to materialism and a dungeon of ego not anything else.

Yes, yes! And various shadow organizations have been pulling the puppet strings of the world's governments for centuries. These same shadow organizations, composed of the wealthiest family dynasties throughout history, have the explicit agenda of keeping people ignorant. However, there are too many spiritual forces working against them for them to succeed. The hour grows late my friend. Prepare the way!

 

[Kriya Yogi]

Yes, yes! And various shadow organizations have been pulling the puppet strings of the world's governments for centuries. These same shadow organizations, composed of the wealthiest family dynasties throughout history, have the explicit agenda of keeping people ignorant. However, there are too many spiritual forces working against them for them to succeed. The hour grows late my friend. Prepare the way!

Even though you are expressing this in a mocking manner there is some truth to this to a certain degree. I don't think government is holding us from believing what we want and or practicing what we want. Unfortunately other religions and governments outside of the US do.

 

[yourhopeboundheart]

p.s. i just lost my carkeys. tried not thinking about it, and ended up cruising the boards. then when i realized that i needed to leave i thought for a few seconds about where i would have put them and rational thinking led me straight to them. (and then that realization made me get back on the boards... my life rules)

score one for consciousness.
now you try.

 

[jarofthoughts]

Science is seen as created by man, but everything that is an idea of man's mind was first an idea of God's. This is fact and when you or anyone else finds God in this life or a future one you will know this to be true as well.

You and plenty of other theists make these claims, and yet, none of you are able to provide evidence of any of it. Kinda makes me think you don't have any... :sarcastic

Again they are not the same spiritual experiences. They cannot reproduce an out of body experience where the soul reunites with God's omnipresent, omniscient, blissful, and expansive consciousness. Tell them to throw the helmet on a true God realized soul and see what happens.

The exact same neural reactions as those brought forth by the God Helmet has been observed in Carmelite nuns, who had the same experiences that you describe while praying. But I guess you'll go all "No True Scotsman" on me again, won't you?

Yes I do.

Clearly, you do not.

The problem here is others know Kriya Yoga to be a science, but just because it hasn't been documented by scientists does not mean its not scientific.

Yeah, it does.

Just as there were billions of stars existing before man researched them, the same goes for God's presence in man.

Evidence for this "god" you keep talking about?

Scientists just have been looking and experimenting in the wrong ways, with the wrong techniques, and with the wrong people.

This is the No True Scotsman fallacy all over again.

Doesn't mean its not true, and that God does not exist.

And just because we have no evidence of faeries, that doesn't mean they don't exist. But there is no reason to think they exist either.

It doesn't mean Kriya Yoga does not work. That would be like saying there was no such thing as other galaxies in this universe because scientists didn't find them out yet. Its faulty logic.

The faulty logic lies in believing in something for which there is no evidence.

The thing is though is that these techniques have been experimented by spiritual saints who are in essence the scientists and they all say that Kriya Yoga is a direct path that WILL lead to God Realization. Therefore it is a SCIENCE and not a pseudo science, because it is known to work with every human being that partakes of it.

I have a hypothetical question for you, since you seem so sure of this.
What if you got to try this God Helmet and the scientists were able to reproduce the effect you say you experience through physical manipulation of your neural processes?
Would you then believe that this "God Realization" is an illusion?

 

[jarofthoughts]

Utterly untrue. God's evidence is everywhere.

Evidence?

The fact you have a consciousness full of complexity and yet systematic to its core shows that you are apart of an infinite intelligent consciousness.

No. My conciousness is an emergent property of the processes that takes place in my brain.
Also, we are not "systematic to the core". If we were then people wouldn't believe in stuff for which there is no evidence.

Many Yogi's say he exists within yet you won't take any of their words for it.

Of course not. I'll take the evidence, when and if it should ever surface. Just remember that extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence, and what has been asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. And anecdotes are not evidence.

Let me try to make you understand where I am coming from...

If the Archangel Gabriel himself descended from the ceiling right in front of me at this very moment, I would sooner believe that I had gone mad than I would believe that there is a god.
Why?
Because the statistical chance of me going crazy is a LOT higher than the chance that there is a god.

Go ahead and ignore the wise and experienced ones that did the work to uncover God though. I find it more wise to allow myself to disprove or prove their actions and words for myself by doing what they did, then if they are wrong then at least I know.

Your brain has a billion ways of fooling you, so yeah, I need independent evidence.

Instead of saying ahhh you know the whole bunch is a bunch of liars without any actions or experimentation on your part to prove them right or wrong. To do that is most unwise.

Oh, I never said they were liars. I'm sure they believed every word they said. That doesn't mean that they were right though.

 

[Kriya Yogi]

You and plenty of other theists make these claims, and yet, none of you are able to provide evidence of any of it. Kinda makes me think you don't have any... :sarcastic

My personal evidence is from my Guru, because I know he is God Realized. Don't ask me how I just know. I have my reasons for knowing. Obviously the evidence wouldn't show itself until you began to search for God. Until then it will probably not show.

The exact same neural reactions as those brought forth by the God Helmet has been observed in Carmelite nuns, who had the same experiences that you describe while praying. But I guess you'll go all "No True Scotsman" on me again, won't you?

They don't know if those nuns were God Realized. They may have been creating feelings in the brain but Samadhi is altogether different then what they were experimenting with.

Clearly, you do not.

I guess you didn't listen to a word I said. It's not that hard to understand.

Yeah, it does.

No it doesn't for the reasons I've already explained to you.

Evidence for this "god" you keep talking about?

How many times do I have to repeat myself. The true evidence is within you by banishing the ego and experiencing Superconsciousness.

This is the No True Scotsman fallacy all over again.

Well it's true. I guarantee if they experimented long enough with some of the Yogi's in India they would find things they have yet to find. I guarantee it.

And just because we have no evidence of faeries, that doesn't mean they don't exist. But there is no reason to think they exist either.

There was no reason to believe that there was other solar systems besides our own but as science evolved and found out more not only was there more solar systems but there are more galaxies as well. You see just because we haven't seen it yet does not mean it doesn't exist.

The faulty logic lies in believing in something for which there is no evidence.

But I do have evidence, because I have gone within. Along with others like my Guru. You would have evidence too if you actually tried this too.

I have a hypothetical question for you, since you seem so sure of this.
What if you got to try this God Helmet and the scientists were able to reproduce the effect you say you experience through physical manipulation of your neural processes?
Would you then believe that this "God Realization" is an illusion?

No! I already told you Samadhi is God realization and there is no machine out there that can create this. Reason being is it is an experience beyond the brain and body, and more real and freeing than any other human experience can offer.

 

[Kriya Yogi]

Evidence?

You won't know until you experience him within.

No. My conciousness is an emergent property of the processes that takes place in my brain.
Also, we are not "systematic to the core". If we were then people wouldn't believe in stuff for which there is no evidence.

Untrue as Yogi's have proven to stop their breath and then reenter their bodies at a later given time. They literally die and travel in their soul on purpose. Again this can be experienced in deep meditation. Not to mention all the testimonies of ghosts, out of body experiences, and dead persons who have remembered floating above their bodies and then being resusitated and being able to tell about the experience.

Of course not. I'll take the evidence, when and if it should ever surface. Just remember that extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence, and what has been asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. And anecdotes are not evidence.

The problem with your notion and belief is if Jesus or God himself actually showed himself unto you at all you would think nothing of it and think you're going crazy before you would believe its true. In other words at your state you're to close minded to be convinced of anything even if you had the most awakening revelation such as Samadhi. Although I think if you actually had that experience you would no longer be a doubter.

Let me try to make you understand where I am coming from...

If the Archangel Gabriel himself descended from the ceiling right in front of me at this very moment, I would sooner believe that I had gone mad than I would believe that there is a god.
Why?
Because the statistical chance of me going crazy is a LOT higher than the chance that there is a god.

That stat is in your head because you have yet to have any evidence of God. It will come some day when you open up a little. Until then I dont think much will change your mind unfortunately.

Your brain has a billion ways of fooling you, so yeah, I need independent evidence.

Maybe so but if you have an experience outside of your brain then you would know it has nothing to do with any brain trickery. Again I know what you would say. Its still in the brain, but I would just say no its not. Instead of going down this road again. Lets agree to disagree again. Were definitely on different ends of the spectrum in terms of perspective. Experience is what separates us.

Oh, I never said they were liars. I'm sure they believed every word they said. That doesn't mean that they were right though.

Yes it does if the experience is expansive beyond anything the brain could comprehend. If they are one with every blade of grass, can see everything in the universe as shimmering light of our God, can see their past lives, the future of other peoples lives only to realize later that he was right, and have God talk to them then that is very real and beyond anything the brain could create. There is much to look forward to for everyone on this planet. The suffering we experience in these blinks of time compared to eternity will be engulfed and in turn be reciprocated in Joy, love, bliss, and freedom in an infinite and timeless way. When you look back at this life once God realized you will wonder just how strong it was and why you ever doubted. I personally wish this freedom I speak of upon you, me, and everyone. But you have to make the effort. God cannot give you this experience unless you use wisdom and find him within. He has given you freewill to choose him or choose his material gifts. Once you grow tired of these fruitless gifts for you know they all vanish after you die you will have the wisdom to search the ultimate freedom and fulfillment. That of which is in God in you. :namaste Even though you might not believe in God, he still believes in you.

I only argue about these things to try to help any doubters understand that there is more. I don't do this out of debating satisfaction or anything. I truly wish the best for everyone in this world, because I personally am tired of all the evil in this world, and have the compassion to share with others that there is hope in God. If you would only try. Even though I highly doubt most of you will change your minds about God, if you ever want my help on things I will use my God realized Guru to help answer the most toughest and mysterious questions you might have about life. There has not been one question about life or God that he could not answer for me.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Let's explore together whether God exists or simple evolution and random chance is the truth.

*Raises hand*

I have two questions at this point. 1) Are those the only two possibilities? And 2) isn't this a false dichotomy?

Let's start by looking at our world today. Can you see God and God's work behind it all or do you feel the cold mechanical clockwork of an unfeeling system??

Nothing cold or mechanical about it. It is what it is, entirely indifferent.

Today, we have a great diversity of people. There are modern,high tech, highly intelligent people. There are poor people with low intelligence, barely surviving. Of course, there are the rest of us in the middle.

And what about modern, high tech people with low intelligence or poor, intelligent people who are barely surviving?

With advancements in science, mankind has been able to control birth rates. The most modern countries are having one or two children per couple. The developing countries are breeding ten to twelve children per couple. How is this changing the world??


Evolution is clear. It's survival of the fittest. It is a system that guaranties our survival by allowing the most fit to survive. If the less intelligent people are having more kids, how can the world be getting smarter as a whole?? And the world is gaining in knowledge. Sure, evolution is a part of the unfolding of the universe but there is a goal beyond survival of the fittest. Do you know what that goal is?? Can you see God yet??

What? That's one of the biggest non-sequiturs I've ever read.

I believe life is the education of God's children. The world will always move forward in knowledge and education. Sure it seems slow at times but forward it will go. Beyond the cold calculating of survival of the fittest, children of God, which is all of us, carry humanity with them. One doesn't have to be the smartest or the fittest to survive today. One will, however learn and grow with life.


Since, there appears to be a goal to life, is that proof God exists??? Isn't there more than evolution going on????

Is that all this argument boils down to? "Life appears to have meaning, therefore God exists"?

Firstly, even if there was "more than evolution going on" does not mean that that is a "goal to life". Secondly, even if there were a supposed "goal to life" that in no way demonstrates or adds credibility to the notion of a God or Gods.

 

[Midnight Pete]

There is no objective proof that God exists. Nothing in the physical realm can prove anything about God.

Suprised?

 

[budha3]

An athiest is honest because they sincerly believe that God doesn't exist. So God has to honor sincerity; at least they're not hippocrites.

 

[Bird123]

And yet you talk of non-existant "facts" and as if your god truely exists.

We all know what you're doing, the same thing every other prosetylizer does.

"Spreading the word".

I find it not only offensive in assuming that people have NOT tried, but that we are also somehow less intelligent as well for "failing to find god".

I found your god in my youth and found him lacking, not only in love, but every other biblical concept as well from some demiurge right on up.

Biblical concept??? Did I ask you to read or base God on holy books??? All I suggested was for you to discover on your own. You don't want to. Great! I want you to choose it all for yourself. You don't need to follow or hang on me. I'm not your mother. You are well capable of standing on your own two feet. One can moan and complain but the discovery of knowledge of any kind does take work. Sometimes it isn't always successful right away. Those who discover things don't give up so easily. I do not care about beliefs. Your belief that God does not exist runs so deep into your soul that you no longer look at the possibilities. That isn't good science now is it????