Is there Really only one True Religion?

[Pegg]

I feel that the arrogant one believes their religion is the only true religion, but to me this isn't true religion. True religion is found within each one of us, its not found in an organization of any kind, it a personal experience with what we call God, but what I like to call, our Essence, our true being. Organized religion imprisons us, its stunts our growth, within organized religion we can never truly grow, we are forever under the rules of that religion, never growing, never realizing our true inner being.

im sure Jim Jones thought that too

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

im sure Jim Jones thought that too

How does that comparison even make any sense? Jim Jones was a Christian cult leader.

 

[psychoslice]

im sure Jim Jones thought that too

I certainly don't think so !.

 

[Pegg]

How does that comparison even make any sense? Jim Jones was a Christian cult leader.

thats exactly how cult leaders think and its how they get converts...they tell them that they dont need organised religion and they can get closer to God independently....just follow my lead

I dont believe independent thought leads us anywhere good....its the reason why there are over 30,000 different christian denominations.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

thats exactly how cult leaders think and its how they get converts...they tell them that they dont need organised religion and they can get closer to God independently....just follow my lead

I imagine that Charles Taze Russell was thinking something very much like this when he founded the Bible Student movement. Was he wrong?

 

[McBell]

thats exactly how cult leaders think and its how they get converts...they tell them that they dont need organised religion and they can get closer to God independently....just follow my lead

I dont believe independent thought leads us anywhere good....its the reason why there are over 30,000 different christian denominations.

I agree.
Though I suspect my definition of cult is not nearly as narrow as yours.

 

[Viker]

thats exactly how cult leaders think and its how they get converts...they tell them that they dont need organised religion and they can get closer to God independently....just follow my lead

I dont believe independent thought leads us anywhere good....its the reason why there are over 30,000 different christian denominations.

If people hadn't suspended independent and critical thought Jonestown could have been avoided.

 

[columbus]

Can we not direct the conversation towards where we came from and evolution. I think you know where that would lead as I think you know that I don't believe in evolution in the first place.

Honestly, no I didn't realize that. I don't know that I would have started this if I had. Because I do understand where it would probably lead. I've done it before.
I don't want to be rudely dismissive. I believe you are a sincere believer. I've thought carefully about what I want to say here.
But to me, what you are saying means you don't believe in basic human knowledge. It would be like trying to discuss weather and climate patterns with someone who doesn't believe the earth is round. Or asking you to discuss this without referring to the Quraan because I don't believe in it.

If you find the evidence for the Quraan more credible than the evidence for natural selection I don't know where to go from here. To me, the obvious and demonstrable similarities between human and chimpanzee physiology, psychology, and genetics is some of the most compelling evidence for evolution. The only thing I can think to ask is "Why do you find the miracle stories from 7th century Arabia more credible?" Maybe you have an alternative way for us to move the conversation forward. I would like for it to do so.

As for our behavior God doesn't just ask us to be moral. God also provided us a way to do that.

Never in my experience has God asked anybody to be moral. People ask us to be and teach us why and how to be moral. Sometimes those people claim to be speaking for God, but that is not the same at all. And frankly, those prophets haven't done a very good job.

Hope to hear from you.

Tom

 

[sojourner]

thats exactly how cult leaders think and its how they get converts...they tell them that they dont need organised religion and they can get closer to God independently....just follow my lead

I dont believe independent thought leads us anywhere good....its the reason why there are over 30,000 different christian denominations.

You're partially right -- at least from a Christian ecclesiological standpoint. Christian spirituality is FAAAAR more communal and relational than it is independent and individualistic. Part of the problem is rampant individualism. But the flip side of that coin is that "the Church," by and large, refuses to acknowledge the great variety in human thought and expression, and also refuses to acknowledge the breadth of variety inherent in who and what God is. "The Church" has exchanged unity for uniformity, effectively suppressing some expressions of individuality, while glorifying other facets of individuality (such as not recognizing the communal nature of salvation). And that's why we have 30,000 (actually closer to 40-45,000) different denominations and organizations.

And, it's the same sort of mind set that caused the OP: The thinking that one particular thing must be "right" -- must the "THE truth," rather than recognizing that, in God's universe, there is room for everything, and there is some facet of truth in everything.

 

[Pegg]

I imagine that Charles Taze Russell was thinking something very much like this when he founded the Bible Student movement. Was he wrong?

Well he wasnt asking people to follow him. Brother Russell formed a group for bible study...and they all contributed to the study of the scriptures.

Their interest was in the bible itself... so if anything, they were submitting themselves to Gods Word....not to any man nor to independent thinking.

 

[Pegg]

You're partially right -- at least from a Christian ecclesiological standpoint. Christian spirituality is FAAAAR more communal and relational than it is independent and individualistic. Part of the problem is rampant individualism. But the flip side of that coin is that "the Church," by and large, refuses to acknowledge the great variety in human thought and expression, and also refuses to acknowledge the breadth of variety inherent in who and what God is. "The Church" has exchanged unity for uniformity, effectively suppressing some expressions of individuality, while glorifying other facets of individuality (such as not recognizing the communal nature of salvation). And that's why we have 30,000 (actually closer to 40-45,000) different denominations and organizations.

And, it's the same sort of mind set that caused the OP: The thinking that one particular thing must be "right" -- must the "THE truth," rather than recognizing that, in God's universe, there is room for everything, and there is some facet of truth in everything.

But we are talking about God here, not mankind and their individuality.

If we all brought our own individuality into religion, we'll have 8 billion religions on earth!

If its God we want to discover we have to leave our individuality at the door. Imagine if I wanted to learn all about you but i would only let myself speak...I wont be learning anything about you at all but I will likely start projecting myself onto you and suddenly i think i know all about you when all im doing is making myself known. Thats why the bible should be the authority and nothing more.

 

[sojourner]

But we are talking about God here, not mankind and their individuality.

If we all brought our own individuality into religion, we'll have 8 billion religions on earth!

If its God we want to discover we have to leave our individuality at the door. Imagine if I wanted to learn all about you but i would only let myself speak...I wont be learning anything about you at all but I will likely start projecting myself onto you and suddenly i think i know all about you when all im doing is making myself known. Thats why the bible should be the authority and nothing more.

Atomistic thinking. We don't leave our individuality at the door; we bring our uniqueness with us, and join it with all the other uniquenesses to form a large, multi-colored quilt of human expression of God.

When a particular denomination claims that it is "right" and others are "wrong" -- when beliefs and theological constructions become doctrine and dogma -- that's when only one voice speaks, and the projection occurs. ALL voices have to sing together, each with its unique timbre, rhythm, and melody. Because the Church is like a concert of several different kinds and styles of music -- not simply a single melody sung in unison by people who sound alike. That's why all denominations -- all religions (so long as they're honest) -- must be respected as being "right," for without ALL the pieces, the whole is lost.

We are only the imago dei in all our united variety and difference. If that takes 8 billion denominations and several thousand religions to form pieces of what must be, not religions, but religion that expresses how the Divine is embodied in humanity, then so be it!

 

[Pegg]

Atomistic thinking. We don't leave our individuality at the door; we bring our uniqueness with us, and join it with all the other uniquenesses to form a large, multi-colored quilt of human expression of God.

When a particular denomination claims that it is "right" and others are "wrong" -- when beliefs and theological constructions become doctrine and dogma -- that's when only one voice speaks, and the projection occurs. ALL voices have to sing together, each with its unique timbre, rhythm, and melody. Because the Church is like a concert of several different kinds and styles of music -- not simply a single melody sung in unison by people who sound alike. That's why all denominations -- all religions (so long as they're honest) -- must be respected as being "right," for without ALL the pieces, the whole is lost.

We are only the imago dei in all our united variety and difference. If that takes 8 billion denominations and several thousand religions to form pieces of what must be, not religions, but religion that expresses how the Divine is embodied in humanity, then so be it!

I love singing, especially large groups of people singing... but not when its out of tune and everyone is singing a different chorus

Thats just bad singing.

 

[sojourner]

I love singing, especially large groups of people singing... but not when its out of tune and everyone is singing a different chorus

Thats just bad singing.

Of course. But one Victorian anthem sung by one choir does not a concert make. What about gospel quartets? What about violin concertos? What about full symphonic forms? What about power rock trios? What about jazz quartets? What about solo flutes? What about bluegrass combos? All supply their own, unique, legitimate parts to the concert. And the omission of even one form would diminish the whole. And the inauthentic performance of, say, having a bluegrass banjo attempt to play an English organ voluntary, makes a sham of both. All are needed in their own, authentic expression for the concert to be complete.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I love singing, especially large groups of people singing... but not when its out of tune and everyone is singing a different chorus

Thats just bad singing.

To run with the analogy, a choir that's all uniformly flat by half a tone will sound better than one where exactly one member has perfect pitch.

 

[sojourner]

To run with the analogy, a choir that's all uniformly flat by half a tone will sound better than one where exactly one member has perfect pitch.

That's the whole point of working communally. When you're in your choir, you adapt your unique voice to blend with and add to the whole. Whether the pitch is set to some arbitrary standard of temperament is immaterial.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

That's the whole point of working communally. When you're in your choir, you adapt your unique voice to blend with and add to the whole. Whether the pitch is set to some arbitrary standard of temperament is immaterial.

I'm not sure if this entirely relevant, but it feels like there might be some symbolism: I have a tuning fork that my grandmother gave me. It originally belonged to her grandfather, who used it while he was the choir director at his Baptist church. However, it was made before the musical scale was standardized, so it's now useless for actually tuning anything. I assume that he and his choir didn't notice a problem, though.

 

[McBell]

Well he wasnt asking people to follow him. Brother Russell formed a group for bible study...and they all contributed to the study of the scriptures.

Their interest was in the bible itself... so if anything, they were submitting themselves to Gods Word....not to any man nor to independent thinking.

I was wondering the mental gymnastics used to get around it...

 

[George-ananda]

Is there Really only one True Religion?

Yes.....the perennial wisdom...but based on cultural and intellectual differences the same thing is seen from different perspectives and might look different

 

[sojourner]

I'm not sure if this entirely relevant, but it feels like there might be some symbolism: I have a tuning fork that my grandmother gave me. It originally belonged to her grandfather, who used it while he was the choir director at his Baptist church. However, it was made before the musical scale was standardized, so it's now useless for actually tuning anything. I assume that he and his choir didn't notice a problem, though.

Baptists. Go figure.

Seriously, there is some symbolism here. Primarily that there is no one, immutable, universal "standard" for what constitutes "right" in this case, since "right" is a perspective that varies with several inputs, such as time, culture, personalities, etc.