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Is there such a thing as a universal religion?

IndigoChild5559

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
paarsurrey said:
Is there such a thing as a universal religion?

Yes, Islam certainly claims:
7:159
Say, ‘O mankind! truly I am a Messenger to you all from Allah to Whom belongs the kingdom of the heavens and the earth. There is no God but He. He gives life, and He causes death. So believe in Allah and His Messenger, the Prophet, the Immaculate one, who believes in Allah and His words; and follow him that you may be rightly guided.’
www.alislam.org

Holy Quran: Read, Listen and Search

In Arabic, Chinese, English, French, German, Italian, Spanish and Urdu.
www.alislam.org www.alislam.org
Right?

Regards
_______________
Original Arabic narration/text from Muhammad's time is below:-
7:159
قُلۡ یٰۤاَیُّہَا النَّاسُ اِنِّیۡ رَسُوۡلُ اللّٰہِ اِلَیۡکُمۡ جَمِیۡعَا ۣالَّذِیۡ لَہٗ مُلۡکُ السَّمٰوٰتِ وَالۡاَرۡضِ ۚ لَاۤ اِلٰہَ اِلَّا ہُوَ یُحۡیٖ وَیُمِیۡتُ ۪ فَاٰمِنُوۡا بِاللّٰہِ وَرَسُوۡلِہِ النَّبِیِّ الۡاُمِّیِّ الَّذِیۡ یُؤۡمِنُ بِاللّٰہِ وَکَلِمٰتِہٖ وَاتَّبِعُوۡہُ لَعَلَّکُمۡ تَہۡتَدُوۡنَ ﴿۱۵۹
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IMHO??? No. There will never be a universal religion (by which I mean no religion that is universally accepted). It is the nature of human beings to have divergent thinking. It's all part and parcel of having separate brains. We will never universally agree on anything.

And personally, I prefer things that way. First, because I think our diversity is adaptive. Let's say a particular problem comes up that one culture cannot solve. Another culture may very well be able to deal with it. If we were all alike, we wouldn't have that advantage. The second reason is, well, cuz I just like having flowers of many colors in the meadow.
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
IndigoChild5559 said:
No. There will never be a universal religion (by which I mean no religion that is universally accepted). It is the nature of human beings to have divergent thinking. It's all part and parcel of having separate brains. We will never universally agree on anything.
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Unless you can see into the future you cannot know that there will never be a universal religion, you can only hold that opinion.

Humans beings can have divergent thinking within a universal religion.
I am sure all Jews do not think exactly alike. I know I do not think exactly like other Baha'is.
We all know that Christians have many different thoughts within one religion.

The same would hold true if there was a universal religion.

I believe that in the future everyone will belong to one religion because that is what God has ordained.

“That which the Lord hath ordained as the sovereign remedy and mightiest instrument for the healing of all the world is the union of all its peoples in one universal Cause, one common Faith. This can in no wise be achieved except through the power of a skilled, an all-powerful and inspired Physician. This, verily, is the truth, and all else naught but error.”
(The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, p. 91)

 
IndigoChild5559

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Trailblazer said:
Unless you can see into the future you cannot know that there will never be a universal religion, you can only hold that opinion.
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The only thing we really have in forums is various people's opinions, including mine. However, some opinions have better evidence an arguments.

My argument is this: the nature of the human species is diversity. The evidence is this: look all around you. You don't see any two people who share all the same opinions. All over the world, incredibly different cultures exist. If you include the smaller religions, over 4000 religions presently exist worldwide. We could make a list a mile long of how people's views differ. I think the only reasonable conclusion from this evidence is that there is something about the nature of human beings that leads to diversity. And if diversity is a basic trait of our species, there simply is never going to be one universally accepted religion, or political party, or philosophy, or system of ethics, or child rearing style, or way to best cook bread.

As always, I'm fine if you disagree. :)
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
IndigoChild5559 said:
My argument is this: the nature of the human species is diversity. The evidence is this: look all around you. You don't see any two people who share all the same opinions. All over the world, incredibly different cultures exist. If you include the smaller religions, over 4000 religions presently exist worldwide. We could make a list a mile long of how people's views differ. I think the only reasonable conclusion from this evidence is that there is something about the nature of human beings that leads to diversity. And if diversity is a basic trait of our species, there simply is never going to be one universally accepted religion, or political party, or philosophy, or system of ethics, or child rearing style, or way to best cook bread.
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One common faith does not mean there would not be diversity within that faith.
Only God knows the future.

“As difference in degree of capacity exists among human souls, as difference in capability is found, therefore, individualities will differ one from another. But in reality this is a reason for unity and not for discord and enmity. If the flowers of a garden were all of one color, the effect would be monotonous to the eye; but if the colors are variegated, it is most pleasing and wonderful. The difference in adornment of color and capacity of reflection among the flowers gives the garden its beauty and charm. Therefore, although we are of different individualities, different in ideas and of various fragrances, let us strive like flowers of the same divine garden to live together in harmony. Even though each soul has its own individual perfume and color, all are reflecting the same light, all contributing fragrance to the same breeze which blows through the garden, all continuing to grow in complete harmony and accord. Become as waves of one sea, trees of one forest, growing in the utmost love, agreement and unity.” – Abdu’l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace
 
IndigoChild5559

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Trailblazer said:
One common faith does not mean there would not be diversity within that faith.
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There will never be universal agreement on even the basic tenets. Human will never agree whether there is one god or many, or whether than/those God/gods is part of nature, or something beyond, or even whether any such being/beings actually exist.
Trailblazer said:
Only God knows the future.
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Of course. I don't claim to be a prophet. But I think I can look at the evidence, and do a pretty good job placing my bet.
Trailblazer said:
“As difference in degree of capacity exists among human souls, as difference in capability is found, therefore, individualities will differ one from another. But in reality this is a reason for unity and not for discord and enmity. If the flowers of a garden were all of one color, the effect would be monotonous to the eye; but if the colors are variegated, it is most pleasing and wonderful. The difference in adornment of color and capacity of reflection among the flowers gives the garden its beauty and charm.
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This sounds to me like an agreement with my own preference for human diversity. In fact, I used the flower metaphor first in this thread LOL :) :) :)
Trailblazer said:
Therefore, although we are of different individualities, different in ideas and of various fragrances, let us strive like flowers of the same divine garden to live together in harmony.
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I seriously hope we can manage that. But in order for such tolerance to become universal, our DNA would literally have to change. The way we are presently wired is to divide the world up into "us" and "them." It's completely instinctual. Scientists can randomly assign students to two different groups, have each group shmooze for 15 minutes and then fill out a questionnaire. It never fails that each group will see itself as smarter, better looking, friendlier, funnier... As I've said so often in this forum, if we didn't fight about politics, or religion, or ethnicity, we would fight over which end to break our hard boiled egg.

I doubt that such a natural evolution would occur anytime soon. It is possible we may learn to genetically manipulate it ourselves.
Trailblazer said:
Even though each soul has its own individual perfume and color, all are reflecting the same light, all contributing fragrance to the same breeze which blows through the garden, all continuing to grow in complete harmony and accord. Become as waves of one sea, trees of one forest, growing in the utmost love, agreement and unity.” – Abdu’l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace
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It's a beautiful vision. In my life, I have had many beautiful visions. One by one, I've had to let go of them as reality became apparent. Perhaps you will be able to hold onto yours.
 
IndigoChild5559

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
RestlessSoul said:
A universal religion would be one without words, without rituals, without doctrine or dogma. With no clergy, no hierarchy, no values, no rules, no guidelines.



How do I join?
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Hmmm. Doesn't really sound like a religion to me. Indeed, it sounds rather grey.
 
WonderingWorrier

WonderingWorrier

Active Member
Rival said:
Christianity and Islam are Semitic, they have histories that don't include China, Canada, Hungaria etc. They're not universal in that sense. They're all about a particular group of people.

I notice a lot of people fall back on 'one god and wisdom literature', which is not what I'm talking about.

The Torah is constantly saying 'Speak to the children of Israel'. How is this universal?
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It could be universal in the fact that the twelve positions have different specific symbols that are assigned to each position.

So do you think an Israel Zodiac wheel could be considered universal? Could you consider Israel as another "map of the heavens"?
 
Rival

Rival

Diex Aie
Staff member
Premium Member
WonderingWorrier said:
It could be universal in the fact that the twelve positions have different specific symbols that are assigned to each position.

So do you think an Israel Zodiac wheel could be considered universal? Could you consider Israel as another "map of the heavens"?
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No, I don't give a crap about Israel. I'm Anglo-Saxon.
 
Tomef

Tomef

Well-Known Member
Rival said:
Or will every religion always be considered from a particular culture and carry those marks?

Is Christianity a universal religion? Islam? Given their Middle Eastern focus, their almost exclusive interest in a limited geographical area, Semitic language and concepts not known by those outside that culture, limited view of history etc.

Is it possible to have a truly universal religion that doesn't just end up being a bland, sterile philosophy?
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Other than pointing out that a religion isn’t a philosophy, I doubt it. Different beliefs are so deeply rooted in the areas they arose in or spread to centuries ago, it would be difficult to shift them entirely to some other set of religious ideas. In the West, religion is gradually fading away, so maybe within 50 years or so it will be a moot point. The idea that religion needs to be replaced with something is fading too, becoming irrelevant, except to the degree that aspects of the religion of one place or another enter into the consciousness of the relevant societies, in a very diffuse way.
 
Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Rival said:
Or will every religion always be considered from a particular culture and carry those marks?

Is Christianity a universal religion? Islam? Given their Middle Eastern focus, their almost exclusive interest in a limited geographical area, Semitic language and concepts not known by those outside that culture, limited view of history etc.

Is it possible to have a truly universal religion that doesn't just end up being a bland, sterile philosophy?
Click to expand...
Impossible.
Every person & culture has different needs & histories.
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
IndigoChild5559 said:
There will never be universal agreement on even the basic tenets. Human will never agree whether there is one god or many, or whether than/those God/gods is part of nature, or something beyond, or even whether any such being/beings actually exist.
Click to expand...
Nobody except God knows what human beings will be like in the future.

According to the Bible and the Baha'i Writings in the future everyone will believe in God.

Jeremiah 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Isaiah 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.

“The Day is approaching when God will render the hosts of Truth victorious, and He will purge the whole earth in such wise that within the compass of His knowledge not a single soul shall remain unless he truly believeth in God, worshippeth none other God but Him, boweth down by day and by night in His adoration, and is reckoned among such as are well assured.”

If everyone adhered to one common faith they might still disagree about certain things but they would agree on the basics.
IndigoChild5559 said:
Of course. I don't claim to be a prophet. But I think I can look at the evidence, and do a pretty good job placing my bet.
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I don't think that we can predict the future by what we have seen in the past, but that is because I believe we are living in a whole new age, the likes of which humanity has never seen before.
IndigoChild5559 said:
This sounds to me like an agreement with my own preference for human diversity. In fact, I used the flower metaphor first in this thread LOL :) :) :)

I seriously hope we can manage that. But in order for such tolerance to become universal, our DNA would literally have to change. The way we are presently wired is to divide the world up into "us" and "them." It's completely instinctual. Scientists can randomly assign students to two different groups, have each group shmooze for 15 minutes and then fill out a questionnaire. It never fails that each group will see itself as smarter, better looking, friendlier, funnier... As I've said so often in this forum, if we didn't fight about politics, or religion, or ethnicity, we would fight over which end to break our hard boiled egg.

I doubt that such a natural evolution would occur anytime soon. It is possible we may learn to genetically manipulate it ourselves.
Click to expand...
No, we will never be the same as every individual is unique, but if husbands and wives can get along in spite of their differences, why couldn't that happen on a larger scale?

I believe we can overcome our instinctual tendencies to divide up the world into us vs. them, and it is already starting to happen.

I have faith that with God all things are possible.
IndigoChild5559 said:
It's a beautiful vision. In my life, I have had many beautiful visions. One by one, I've had to let go of them as reality became apparent. Perhaps you will be able to hold onto yours.
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The vision of today can become the reality of tomorrow. ;)
Surely, this vision will not unfold within our lifetimes but it was prophesied so it will happen eventually.
 
WonderingWorrier

WonderingWorrier

Active Member
Rival said:
No, I don't give a crap about Israel. I'm Anglo-Saxon.
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No. Thats not it. You just don't give a crap about an answer. You weren't asking the question of Israel, you were just suggesting in the form of question.

Rival said:
The Torah is constantly saying 'Speak to the children of Israel'. How is this universal?
Click to expand...

It seems that you don't give a crap about an answer which goes against your suggestion. Because you did not mention Zodiac wheels in your reply which is the universal part of which Israel is also included. Truth is truth whether we like it or not.
 
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