Is there such a thing as a universal religion?

[Trailblazer]

Sigh.

I don't think some folks are getting it.

Christianity and Islam are Semitic, they have histories that don't include China, Canada, Hungaria etc. They're not universal in that sense. They're all about a particular group of people.

I notice a lot of people fall back on 'one god and wisdom literature', which is not what I'm talking about.

The Torah is constantly saying 'Speak to the children of Israel'. How is this universal?

Universalizing Religions

First, let’s look at the definition of universalizing religion. Universalizing religions offer belief systems that are attractive to the universal population. They look for new members and welcome anyone and everyone who wishes to adopt their belief system. Universalizing religions have many diverse members, who come from different ethnic backgrounds, hence the term universal. Therefore, it is evident that universal religions consist of many different ethnic groups because they convert and accept anyone of any background and are usually not closely tied to one location.

Christianity

Christianity is the largest universalizing religion, both in area and in number, with about two billion adherents. Founded on the teachings of Jesus, Christianity is monotheistic, believing that God is a Trinity and Jesus Christ is the Son of God. The three main branches of Christianity are Catholics, Orthodox, and Protestants. Roman Catholics are predominate in Southwest Europe and Latin America, Protestants in Northwest Europe and North America, and Orthodox in Eastern Europe. Eastern Orthodoxy is the largest single religious faith in Greece, Cyprus, and Russia.

Islam

Islam is the second largest universalizing religion with over 1.5 billion adherents. In Arabic, Islam means “submitting to the will of God”. Those who practice Islam are Muslims, which means one who surrenders to God. Islam begins with Abraham like Christianity and Judaism, but traces their story through Abraham’s second wife and son, Hagar and Ishmael, not Sarah and Isaac like the Christians and Jews. Their leader and prophet is Muhammad. The two branches of Islam are Sunni and Shiite. The division between the Sunni and Shia originated in a disagreement over leadership after Muhammad’s death in 632 CE. Islam is the predominant religion in the Middle East from North Africa to Central Asia. More than half of the world’s Muslims live in four countries outside the Middle East: Indonesia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and India.

Buddhism

Buddhism is the fourth largest religion, with about 350 million adherents. Buddhism was founded in Northern India by the first known Buddha, Siddhartha Gautama. The core Buddhist belief is reincarnation. In this concept, people are reborn after dying. One can attain Nirvana if one releases their attachment to desire and self. Today, Buddhism is a majority faith in Southeast Asia, China, and Japan.

Ethnic Religions

In contrast to universalizing religions, ethnic religions usually consist of beliefs, superstitions, and rituals handed down from generation to generation within an ethnicity and culture. It follows one’s ethnicity because the religion does not tend to convert. In some ways, ethnic religions act like a folk culture. It expands via relocation diffusion and often increases through birth rates. Ethnic religions relate closely to culture, ethnic heritage, and to the physical geography of a particular place. Ethnic religions do not attempt to appeal to all people, but only one group, maybe in one locale or within one ethnicity. Judaism and Hinduism are two prime examples of ethnic religions.

Hinduism

Hinduism is the largest ethnic religion and the world’s third largest religion with about 1 billion adherents. Hinduism existed before recorded history and had no specific founder. The origins of Hinduism in India are unclear; however, the oldest manuscripts date to 1500 BCE. Hinduism consists of many different religious groups evolved in India since 1500 BCE. Other religions are more centrally organized than Hinduism, and it is up to the individual to decide the best way to worship God. The principle of reincarnation is the cornerstone of Hinduism, and their doctrine closely mirrors India’s caste system. Almost all Hindus live in one country, India, but also are in Bangladesh, Myanmar, Sri Lanka, and Nepal.

Judaism

Judaism is an ethnic religion that has more than 14 million followers worldwide. There are 6 million Jews in Israel and 5 million in the United States. Two of the main universalizing religions, Christianity and Islam, find some of their roots in Judaism, recognizing Abraham as a Patriarch. Jews believe in one true God, and the Western Wall of the old temple in Jerusalem is one of their most holy sites. The three branches of Judaism are Orthodox, Conservatives, and Reformed. Judaism is distributed throughout part of the Middle East and North Africa, the United States, Russia, and Europe.

Ethnic vs. Universalizing Religions: AP® Human Geography Crash Course | Albert.io

Ethnic and Universalizing religions are essential parts of understanding the world we live in. Read this article to prepare for the AP® Human Geography exam.

www.albert.io

 

[Rival]

Universalizing Religions

First, let’s look at the definition of universalizing religion. Universalizing religions offer belief systems that are attractive to the universal population. They look for new members and welcome anyone and everyone who wishes to adopt their belief system. Universalizing religions have many diverse members, who come from different ethnic backgrounds, hence the term universal. Therefore, it is evident that universal religions consist of many different ethnic groups because they convert and accept anyone of any background and are usually not closely tied to one location.

Christianity

Christianity is the largest universalizing religion, both in area and in number, with about two billion adherents. Founded on the teachings of Jesus, Christianity is monotheistic, believing that God is a Trinity and Jesus Christ is the Son of God. The three main branches of Christianity are Catholics, Orthodox, and Protestants. Roman Catholics are predominate in Southwest Europe and Latin America, Protestants in Northwest Europe and North America, and Orthodox in Eastern Europe. Eastern Orthodoxy is the largest single religious faith in Greece, Cyprus, and Russia.

Islam

Islam is the second largest universalizing religion with over 1.5 billion adherents. In Arabic, Islam means “submitting to the will of God”. Those who practice Islam are Muslims, which means one who surrenders to God. Islam begins with Abraham like Christianity and Judaism, but traces their story through Abraham’s second wife and son, Hagar and Ishmael, not Sarah and Isaac like the Christians and Jews. Their leader and prophet is Muhammad. The two branches of Islam are Sunni and Shiite. The division between the Sunni and Shia originated in a disagreement over leadership after Muhammad’s death in 632 CE. Islam is the predominant religion in the Middle East from North Africa to Central Asia. More than half of the world’s Muslims live in four countries outside the Middle East: Indonesia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and India.

Buddhism

Buddhism is the fourth largest religion, with about 350 million adherents. Buddhism was founded in Northern India by the first known Buddha, Siddhartha Gautama. The core Buddhist belief is reincarnation. In this concept, people are reborn after dying. One can attain Nirvana if one releases their attachment to desire and self. Today, Buddhism is a majority faith in Southeast Asia, China, and Japan.

Ethnic Religions

In contrast to universalizing religions, ethnic religions usually consist of beliefs, superstitions, and rituals handed down from generation to generation within an ethnicity and culture. It follows one’s ethnicity because the religion does not tend to convert. In some ways, ethnic religions act like a folk culture. It expands via relocation diffusion and often increases through birth rates. Ethnic religions relate closely to culture, ethnic heritage, and to the physical geography of a particular place. Ethnic religions do not attempt to appeal to all people, but only one group, maybe in one locale or within one ethnicity. Judaism and Hinduism are two prime examples of ethnic religions.

Hinduism

Hinduism is the largest ethnic religion and the world’s third largest religion with about 1 billion adherents. Hinduism existed before recorded history and had no specific founder. The origins of Hinduism in India are unclear; however, the oldest manuscripts date to 1500 BCE. Hinduism consists of many different religious groups evolved in India since 1500 BCE. Other religions are more centrally organized than Hinduism, and it is up to the individual to decide the best way to worship God. The principle of reincarnation is the cornerstone of Hinduism, and their doctrine closely mirrors India’s caste system. Almost all Hindus live in one country, India, but also are in Bangladesh, Myanmar, Sri Lanka, and Nepal.

Judaism

Judaism is an ethnic religion that has more than 14 million followers worldwide. There are 6 million Jews in Israel and 5 million in the United States. Two of the main universalizing religions, Christianity and Islam, find some of their roots in Judaism, recognizing Abraham as a Patriarch. Jews believe in one true God, and the Western Wall of the old temple in Jerusalem is one of their most holy sites. The three branches of Judaism are Orthodox, Conservatives, and Reformed. Judaism is distributed throughout part of the Middle East and North Africa, the United States, Russia, and Europe.

Ethnic vs. Universalizing Religions: AP® Human Geography Crash Course | Albert.io

Ethnic and Universalizing religions are essential parts of understanding the world we live in. Read this article to prepare for the AP® Human Geography exam.

www.albert.io

Thanks for still not getting it after I explained.

 

[osgart]

When science ever maximizes its power and influence, and when many mainstream religions can be properly refuted then that might open the door for a universal philosophy/religion.

Anything universal will start with general principles regarding morality, and even metaphysics. I don't think 100% of all the people will ever agree on most of everything. As long as there is room for interpretation regarding metaphysics and morality you'll always have diversity.

Since religion involves historical narratives regarding the influence of God(s) I think religion is going to hit the wall with its power and influence, and it'll have to change and adapt, and become more inclusive and less dogmatic. It'll have to be more seeking, and less absolute.

Old religion dies hard, and it might be that all the main religions adapt and survive. Maybe they'll look less traditional, and more modernized.

 

[paarsurrey]

Is there such a thing as a universal religion?

When science ever maximizes its power and influence, and when many mainstream religions can be properly refuted then that might open the door for a universal philosophy/religion.

Science has its limitations/chains not fixed/put by the truthful Religion but by its mother/father aka the Scientific Method so it will never enter the realm ( ethical, moral and spiritual) that belongs the truthful Religion, one must say, please, right?
The truthful Religion is already universal and serving the humanity excellently, so there in no need also, right?:
3:20
Surely, the true religion with Allah is Islam (complete submission). And those who were given the Book did not disagree but after knowledge had come to them, out of mutual envy. And whoso denies the Signs of Allah, then surely, Allah is quick at reckoning. | Holy Quran: Read, Listen and Search

Regards
___________________
Original Arabic narration/text from Muhammad's time is below:-
3:20
اِنَّ الدِّیۡنَ عِنۡدَ اللّٰہِ الۡاِسۡلَامُ ۟ وَمَا اخۡتَلَفَ الَّذِیۡنَ اُوۡتُوا الۡکِتٰبَ اِلَّا مِنۡۢ بَعۡدِ مَا جَآءَہُمُ الۡعِلۡمُ بَغۡیًۢا بَیۡنَہُمۡ ؕ وَمَنۡ یَّکۡفُرۡ بِاٰیٰتِ اللّٰہِ فَاِنَّ اللّٰہَ سَرِیۡعُ الۡحِسَابِ ﴿۲۰

 

[WonderingWorrier]

Is there such a thing as a universal religion?

Yes, Moses was sent to the Israelites, it is not a universal religion, I agree.

Regards

I disagree. The Quran says messengers were sent to all people. Anyone that dismisses another true messenger is therefore equal to an unbeliever of the Quran message. The universal message.

"Those who deny Allah and His messengers, and (those who) wish to separate Allah from His messengers, saying: "We believe in some but reject others": And (those who) wish to take a course midway,- They are in truth (equally) unbelievers; and we have prepared for unbelievers a humiliating punishment.

To those who believe in Allah and His messengers and make no distinction between any of the messengers, we shall soon give their (due) rewards: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful". Quran 4:150-152

Make no distinction. They all have exactly the same message.


"It is We Who have set out the zodiacal signs in the heavens, and made them fair-seeming to (all) beholders;" Quran 15:16



And there are also Zodiacal signs in the twelve tribes of Israel. The Quran mentions the signs in them.
"Verily in Joseph and his brethren are signs (or symbols) for seekers (after Truth)". Quran 12:7

Listen to the associated symbols.
There is, in their stories, instruction for men endued with understanding. It is not a tale invented, but a confirmation of what went before it,- a detailed exposition of all things, and a guide and a mercy to any such as believe. Quran. 12:111

Muhammad also shows an ability to speak weaving his symbols into the correct positions. I accept his Zodiac signs too.

 

[Trailblazer]

To those who believe in Allah and His messengers and make no distinction between any of the messengers, we shall soon give their (due) rewards: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful". Quran 4:150-152

Make no distinction. They all have exactly the same message.

Baha'u'llah said the same thing about the messengers of God, who are Manifestations of His Cause.

“Beware, O believers in the Unity of God, lest ye be tempted to make any distinction between any of the Manifestations of His Cause, or to discriminate against the signs that have accompanied and proclaimed their Revelation. This indeed is the true meaning of Divine Unity, if ye be of them that apprehend and believe this truth. Be ye assured, moreover, that the works and acts of each and every one of these Manifestations of God, nay whatever pertaineth unto them, and whatsoever they may manifest in the future, are all ordained by God, and are a reflection of His Will and Purpose. Whoso maketh the slightest possible difference between their persons, their words, their messages, their acts and manners, hath indeed disbelieved in God, hath repudiated His signs, and betrayed the Cause of His Messengers.”

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 59-60

But that doesn't mean that all the messengers have the same message. They all reveal the same eternal spiritual truths but they each have a different mission given them by God and a different message, a message that is suited to the age in which the messenger appears.

 

[Jedster]

A universal religion would be one without words, without rituals, without doctrine or dogma. With no clergy, no hierarchy, no values, no rules, no guidelines.



How do I join?

You are already a member, so is everyone living.
It has no words, rituals, doctrine or dogma.
It has no rules, clergy or guidelines.
It has only one value that I can see.


The only downside is that we have no choice as to be a member of this religion or not. I say this because I don't see this as a downside although I suspect there are those that will.

For those of you that haven't guessed the answer

Spoiler: The Universal religion is

Breathing

 

[WonderingWorrier]

Baha'u'llah said the same thing about the messengers of God, who are Manifestations of His Cause.

“Beware, O believers in the Unity of God, lest ye be tempted to make any distinction between any of the Manifestations of His Cause, or to discriminate against the signs that have accompanied and proclaimed their Revelation. This indeed is the true meaning of Divine Unity, if ye be of them that apprehend and believe this truth. Be ye assured, moreover, that the works and acts of each and every one of these Manifestations of God, nay whatever pertaineth unto them, and whatsoever they may manifest in the future, are all ordained by God, and are a reflection of His Will and Purpose. Whoso maketh the slightest possible difference between their persons, their words, their messages, their acts and manners, hath indeed disbelieved in God, hath repudiated His signs, and betrayed the Cause of His Messengers.”

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 59-60

So Baha'u'llah said the same thing, as seen in the Quran. He talks about things that are said in the Quran and the Bible. But that doesn't make him another messenger.

I think any so-called messenger that only speaks in single symbol sentences can't be a messenger. Because you can't weave your words/symbols into different group positions if you only have one word. Its impossible.

So Baha'u'llah speaking about Bible/Quran single words then adding words like utterance, or knowledge, or wisdom, doesn't count. It has to be said together with another very clear symbol.

Like Muhammad talking about a star lit by a blessed olive tree. That's a more than one symbol sentence. And I know the shared positioning of those two words so I know he is correct in what he said. His signs are able to be verified.


The Bahai Reference Library has a word search function.

Are you able to show me anywhere in the writings of Baha'u'llah that he can put two or more words together in a sentence?

But that doesn't mean that all the messengers have the same message. They all reveal the same eternal spiritual truths but they each have a different mission given them by God and a different message, a message that is suited to the age in which the messenger appears.

There is no distinction with having different symbols being spoken when their positioning is the message.

 

[paarsurrey]

Is there such a thing as a universal religion?

Like Muhammad talking about a star lit by a blessed olive tree. That's a more than one symbol sentence. And I know the shared positioning of those two words so I know he is correct in what he said. His signs are able to be verified.

One means:

24:36
Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The similitude of His light is as a lustrous niche, wherein is a lamp. The lamp is in a glass. The glass is as it were a glittering star. It is lit from a blessed tree — an olive — neither of the east nor of the west, whose oil would well-nigh glow forth even though fire touched it not. Light upon light! Allah guides to His light whomsoever He will. And Allah sets forth parables to men, and Allah knows all things full well.

Holy Quran: Read, Listen and Search

In Arabic, Chinese, English, French, German, Italian, Spanish and Urdu.

www.alislam.org

Right?

Regards
__________________
Original Arabic narration/text from Muhammad's time is below:-
24:36
اَللّٰہُ نُوۡرُ السَّمٰوٰتِ وَالۡاَرۡضِ ؕ مَثَلُ نُوۡرِہٖ کَمِشۡکٰوۃٍ فِیۡہَا مِصۡبَاحٌ ؕ اَلۡمِصۡبَاحُ فِیۡ زُجَاجَۃٍ ؕ اَلزُّجَاجَۃُ کَاَنَّہَا کَوۡکَبٌ دُرِّیٌّ یُّوۡقَدُ مِنۡ شَجَرَۃٍ مُّبٰرَکَۃٍ زَیۡتُوۡنَۃٍ لَّا شَرۡقِیَّۃٍ وَّلَا غَرۡبِیَّۃٍ ۙ یَّکَادُ زَیۡتُہَا یُضِیۡٓءُ وَلَوۡ لَمۡ تَمۡسَسۡہُ نَارٌ ؕ نُوۡرٌ عَلٰی نُوۡرٍ ؕ یَہۡدِی اللّٰہُ لِنُوۡرِہٖ مَنۡ یَّشَآءُ ؕ وَیَضۡرِبُ اللّٰہُ الۡاَمۡثَالَ لِلنَّاسِ ؕ وَاللّٰہُ بِکُلِّ شَیۡءٍ عَلِیۡمٌ ﴿ۙ۳۶

 

[Trailblazer]

So Baha'u'llah said the same thing, as seen in the Quran. He talks about things that are said in the Quran and the Bible. But that doesn't make him another messenger.

What Baha'u'llah talks about is not what makes Him another messenger. God made Him another messenger.

 

[WonderingWorrier]

Is there such a thing as a universal religion?

One means:

24:36
Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The similitude of His light is as a lustrous niche, wherein is a lamp. The lamp is in a glass. The glass is as it were a glittering star. It is lit from a blessed tree — an olive — neither of the east nor of the west, whose oil would well-nigh glow forth even though fire touched it not. Light upon light! Allah guides to His light whomsoever He will. And Allah sets forth parables to men, and Allah knows all things full well.

Holy Quran: Read, Listen and Search

In Arabic, Chinese, English, French, German, Italian, Spanish and Urdu.

www.alislam.org

Right?

Correct. That is Muhammad speaking a multiple symbol sentence.

He is talking about the lamp of the anointed with oil.
"There will I make the horn of David to bud: I have ordained a lamp for mine anointed". Psalm.

Oil and the olive tree share the same symbol position as Star according to the bread, oil, and wine positions, and the moon, star, and sun positions. I can go into detail about this if you want.


But Baha'u'llah also talks about the lamp and the oil. And this is what he says about it:

"How utterly unaware they seem to be of the truth that such adversity is the oil that feedeth the flame of this Lamp!".

"He hath kindled the lamp of utterance, and feedeth it with the oil of wisdom and understanding".

"Increase, then, by the oil of Thy wisdom, the radiance of its light".

"kindle with the oil of wisdom the lamp of the spirit".

"Feed it with the oil of Divine guidance".

"Thou hast lighted the lamp of Thy Cause with the oil of wisdom".


Can you see the difference? Baha'u'llah is speaking of the oil in single symbol sentences. He doesn't put his oil anywhere.

But Muhammad clearly speaks his oil with other specific symbols, his signs can be seen, assessed, and verified.

 

[WonderingWorrier]

What Baha'u'llah talks about is not what makes Him another messenger. God made Him another messenger.

Can you show me anywhere Baha'u'llah puts two or more words together in a sentence, or not?

This is another Baha'u'llah single symbol sentence:
"the wine of Mine utterance from the chalice of My knowledge!"

Which sounds just like his oil single symbol sentences.

Seems to me he doesn't know about the wine and the oil spoken of by the messengers.

 

[Trailblazer]

Correct. That is Muhammad speaking a multiple symbol sentence.

He is talking about the lamp of the anointed with oil.
"There will I make the horn of David to bud: I have ordained a lamp for mine anointed". Psalm.

Oil and the olive tree share the same symbol position as Star according to the bread, oil, and wine positions, and the moon, star, and sun positions. I can go into detail about this if you want.


But Baha'u'llah also talks about the lamp and the oil. And this is what he says about it:

"How utterly unaware they seem to be of the truth that such adversity is the oil that feedeth the flame of this Lamp!".

"He hath kindled the lamp of utterance, and feedeth it with the oil of wisdom and understanding".

"Increase, then, by the oil of Thy wisdom, the radiance of its light".

"kindle with the oil of wisdom the lamp of the spirit".

"Feed it with the oil of Divine guidance".

"Thou hast lighted the lamp of Thy Cause with the oil of wisdom".

Can you see the difference? Baha'u'llah is speaking of the oil in single symbol sentences. He doesn't put his oil anywhere.

But Muhammad clearly speaks his oil with other specific symbols, his signs can be seen, assessed, and verified.

I am sorry. I don't understand any of this symbol stuff.

 

[WonderingWorrier]

I am sorry. I don't understand any of this symbol stuff.

I can try to explain.

Can you simply understand the words valley, hill, and mountain as being different symbols? of different positions of height? just like sea, river, and stream can also be understood as being another set of symbols of different positions of height?

If so then you should be able to hear the different symbols corn (Bread), oil, and wine. Its exactly the same thing.
"And the earth shall hear the corn, and the wine, and the oil; and they shall hear Jezreel". Hosea

The Bible speaks symbol positioning stuff. Like the corn being as the sand of the sea, the rivers running as oil, and the wine flowing from the mountain. The sets of symbols are being assigned to their shared positions and forming different groups.

I will show you a quick example towards verifying what Muhammad said about oil and star. Have a look at these different sets of symbols:

Oil is one of these three symbols. Bread, oil, and wine.
"And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man's heart". Psalm

And Star is one of these three symbols. Moon, star, and sun.
"And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring" Luke.

And Sword is one of these three symbols. Spear, sword, and bow.
"Therefore set I in the lower places behind the wall, and on the higher places, I even set the people after their families with their swords, their spears, and their bows". Nehemiah


Now here is some symbol positioning stuff.

The oil symbol with the sword symbol:

"The words of his mouth were smoother than butter, but war was in his heart: his words were softer than oil, yet were they drawn swords". Psalm.

And here the sword symbol is with the star symbol (look closely):

"The sun and moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went, and at the shining of thy glittering spear". Habakkuk

Therefore it is possible for you to see and verify the oil symbol is in the same position as the star symbol. The oil and star are both in the sword symbol position.

Bread - Oil - Wine
Moon - Star - Sun
Spear - Sword - Bow

So Muhammad is correct to speak the Oil and Star symbols together as they are in fact same position symbols.

But Baha'u'llah didn't put his oil with any other symbols. No sign. It seems he didn't know where to put his word.

 

[Trailblazer]

I can try to explain.

Can you simply understand the words valley, hill, and mountain as being different symbols? of different positions of height? just like sea, river, and stream can also be understood as being another set of symbols of different positions of height?

If so then you should be able to hear the different symbols corn (Bread), oil, and wine. Its exactly the same thing.
"And the earth shall hear the corn, and the wine, and the oil; and they shall hear Jezreel". Hosea

The Bible speaks symbol positioning stuff. Like the corn being as the sand of the sea, the rivers running as oil, and the wine flowing from the mountain. The sets of symbols are being assigned to their shared positions and forming different groups.

I will show you a quick example towards verifying what Muhammad said about oil and star. Have a look at these different sets of symbols:

Oil is one of these three symbols. Bread, oil, and wine.
"And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man's heart". Psalm

And Star is one of these three symbols. Moon, star, and sun.
"And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring" Luke.

And Sword is one of these three symbols. Spear, sword, and bow.
"Therefore set I in the lower places behind the wall, and on the higher places, I even set the people after their families with their swords, their spears, and their bows". Nehemiah


Now here is some symbol positioning stuff.

The oil symbol with the sword symbol:

"The words of his mouth were smoother than butter, but war was in his heart: his words were softer than oil, yet were they drawn swords". Psalm.

And here the sword symbol is with the star symbol (look closely):

"The sun and moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went, and at the shining of thy glittering spear". Habakkuk

Therefore it is possible for you to see and verify the oil symbol is in the same position as the star symbol. The oil and star are both in the sword symbol position.

Bread - Oil - Wine
Moon - Star - Sun
Spear - Sword - Bow

So Muhammad is correct to speak the Oil and Star symbols together as they are in fact same position symbols.

But Baha'u'llah didn't put his oil with any other symbols. No sign. It seems he didn't know where to put his word.

Sorry, I am still confused. You'd have to explain this more simply if you want me to understand.

 

[paarsurrey]

One means:

24:36
Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The similitude of His light is as a lustrous niche, wherein is a lamp. The lamp is in a glass. The glass is as it were a glittering star. It is lit from a blessed tree — an olive — neither of the east nor of the west, whose oil would well-nigh glow forth even though fire touched it not. Light upon light! Allah guides to His light whomsoever He will. And Allah sets forth parables to men, and Allah knows all things full well.

Holy Quran: Read, Listen and Search​

In Arabic, Chinese, English, French, German, Italian, Spanish and Urdu.
www.alislam.org
Right?

Regards
__________________
Original Arabic narration/text from Muhammad's time is below:-
24:36
اَللّٰہُ نُوۡرُ السَّمٰوٰتِ وَالۡاَرۡضِ ؕ مَثَلُ نُوۡرِہٖ کَمِشۡکٰوۃٍ فِیۡہَا مِصۡبَاحٌ ؕ اَلۡمِصۡبَاحُ فِیۡ زُجَاجَۃٍ ؕ اَلزُّجَاجَۃُ کَاَنَّہَا کَوۡکَبٌ دُرِّیٌّ یُّوۡقَدُ مِنۡ شَجَرَۃٍ مُّبٰرَکَۃٍ زَیۡتُوۡنَۃٍ لَّا شَرۡقِیَّۃٍ وَّلَا غَرۡبِیَّۃٍ ۙ یَّکَادُ زَیۡتُہَا یُضِیۡٓءُ وَلَوۡ لَمۡ تَمۡسَسۡہُ نَارٌ ؕ نُوۡرٌ عَلٰی نُوۡرٍ ؕ یَہۡدِی اللّٰہُ لِنُوۡرِہٖ مَنۡ یَّشَآءُ ؕ وَیَضۡرِبُ اللّٰہُ الۡاَمۡثَالَ لِلنَّاسِ ؕ وَاللّٰہُ بِکُلِّ شَیۡءٍ عَلِیۡمٌ ﴿ۙ۳۶

Correct. That is Muhammad speaking a multiple symbol sentence.

He is talking about the lamp of the anointed with oil.
"There will I make the horn of David to bud: I have ordained a lamp for mine anointed". Psalm.

Oil and the olive tree share the same symbol position as Star according to the bread, oil, and wine positions, and the moon, star, and sun positions. I can go into detail about this if you want.


But Baha'u'llah also talks about the lamp and the oil. And this is what he says about it:

"How utterly unaware they seem to be of the truth that such adversity is the oil that feedeth the flame of this Lamp!".

"He hath kindled the lamp of utterance, and feedeth it with the oil of wisdom and understanding".

"Increase, then, by the oil of Thy wisdom, the radiance of its light".

"kindle with the oil of wisdom the lamp of the spirit".

"Feed it with the oil of Divine guidance".

"Thou hast lighted the lamp of Thy Cause with the oil of wisdom".


Can you see the difference? Baha'u'llah is speaking of the oil in single symbol sentences. He doesn't put his oil anywhere.

But Muhammad clearly speaks his oil with other specific symbols, his signs can be seen, assessed, and verified.

Quranic words/sentences/verses could have 7/70 and or more correct explanations, provided these are within the context of some preceding verses and some following verses and within the cope of the very short chapter named the Opener (Arabic Al-Fatihah):
24:36

Right?

Regards

 

[WonderingWorrier]

Right?

No. I think that is wrong. He says the star means a heart like a glittering star, and the olive tree means the blessed being of Muhammad.

I will show you star and olive tree, and oil.

Here is star:
Star is one of the three levels of glory. There is also moon glory, and sun glory:
"There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory". Corinthians

Here is oil:
Oil is one of the three levels of glory. There is also bread and wine:
"And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man's heart". Psalm

Here is olive tree:
Olive tree is one of the three levels of glory. There is also corn (grain), and grapes:
"And he will take your fields, and your vineyards, and your oliveyards, even the best of them, and give them to his servants". Samuel


The star and the olive tree are exactly the same level of glory. They share the same position.

Moon - Star - Sun
Bread - Oil - Wine
Field - Oliveyard - Vineyard.

So Muhammad is truthful to speak the star and the olive tree oil together as one. The sign he did can be verified.

 

[WonderingWorrier]

Sorry, I am still confused. You'd have to explain this more simply if you want me to understand.

I will try showing you just three verses. Then you might be able to get an understanding of what I am talking about.

Verse 1: "There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory". Corinthians.

Verse 2: "Therefore set I in the lower places behind the wall, and on the higher places, I even set the people after their families with their swords, their spears, and their bows". Nehemiah

Now the 3rd verse might be a bit crazy sounding. It will require your knowledge of studying the first two verses.

Verse 3: "The sun and moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went, and at the shining of thy glittering spear". Habbakuk.


Study the three verses. Then I would like you to explain to me what you can see in them.

 

[WonderingWorrier]

Sorry, I am still confused. You'd have to explain this more simply if you want me to understand.

You gave me an optimistic symbol and not a reply.

I am sorry. I was trying to simplify. I was trying to show you a different way of hearing what is being said. It is difficult to try to talk about unheard words and I understand trying to explain the nonsense could sound like more nonsense. So I thought maybe it would be easier if you just had a look at an example and worked it out for yourself. Then we would be able to talk about the words and we could hear each other.

I think you could learn how to hear unheard words (nonsense) by observing those three verses. Then you can hear the nonsense speaking perfect sense.

Please take a look at the three verses. I will try to explain.

I will try showing you just three verses. Then you might be able to get an understanding of what I am talking about.

Verse 1: "There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory". Corinthians.

Verse 2: "Therefore set I in the lower places behind the wall, and on the higher places, I even set the people after their families with their swords, their spears, and their bows". Nehemiah

Now the 3rd verse might be a bit crazy sounding. It will require your knowledge of studying the first two verses.

Verse 3: "The sun and moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went, and at the shining of thy glittering spear". Habbakuk.


Study the three verses. Then I would like you to explain to me what you can see in them.

The third verse sounds like nonsense. But to me I can hear perfect sense, loud and clear. The first two verses are speaking two different sets of three symbols.

And the third verse is in fact positioning the symbols from both sets.

Heard in the nonsense of the third verse, the Sun of verse 1 is being positioned with the arrow (Bow) of verse 2. And the Moon of verse 1 is being positioned with the spear of verse 2.

I can see one symbol was left out of each set. One symbol from the first verse is missing and one symbol from the second verse is missing. I see the star positioned with the sword.

I know Star and sword are exactly the same thing. I can further verify it in multiple ways. Can you hear the unheard words?

Moon - Star - Sun
Spear - Sword - Bow
Bread - Oil - Wine

Are we able to try to talk about the unheard words? Its not nonsense.

 

[Trailblazer]

You gave me an optimistic symbol and not a reply.

I gave you that optimistic symbol because I think you are optimistic if you think I am ever going to understand this symbol stuff.
Maybe I could understand it if I had time to study it but as it is I am running on a very tight schedule.