Is This A Lie?

[Madhuri]

It's like I wanted to lie to you, but I change my mind at final moment.

so result is I telling the truth

But in that moment when he said he was going to the shops, it was a lie because in that moment he was deceiving the person. That he changed his mind later doesn't change the deceit in his words at the time. The intent to deceive is a lie independent of the outcome.

 

[Willamena]

Say person a asks person b where he is going. Person b replies "the shop" but has no intention of going to the shop and instead is planning a visit to a friend. However, on his way to see his friend he does indeed change his mind and go to the shop.

Did person b lie?

Yes. A lie is very much intended, and not accidental.

 

[Willamena]

But what was the result ?

The result was accidental truth.

We can qualify truths and lies as accidental, but if we point directly at them they are not qualified.

 

[psychoslice]

Who cares if it a lie or not, sometimes we have to say a little white lie for the sake of both of us.

 

[Brickjectivity]

So it would appear, but do you honestly think this is what they intended, or was their intention more along the lines of a briefer way of saying "to create a false or misleading impression to deceive" ?

Accurately repeating what we hear does not absolve us from verifying it first, and I do think that the definition is written so as to include that. Repeating an untruth involves us in the deceit whether we intend to be involved or not, so we become deceivers through passive neglect sometimes. Then the definition of deceit cannot strictly be about intent in the second case but must include the reality of passive involvement. I agree with the way #1 is stated, too. I do think that the intent to deceive is itself deceit, but also the act of deceiving is, too, regardless of what the intent.

 

[McBell]

Accurately repeating what we hear does not absolve us from verifying it first, and I do think that the definition is written so as to include that. Repeating an untruth involves us in the deceit whether we intend to be involved or not, so we become deceivers through passive neglect sometimes. Then the definition of deceit cannot strictly be about intent in the second case but must include the reality of passive involvement. I agree with the way #1 is stated, too. I do think that the intent to deceive is itself deceit, but also the act of deceiving is, too, regardless of what the intent.

So being wrong is lying?

 

[Brickjectivity]

So being wrong is lying?

I think this is something that enters much of Western culture during the Reformation period 400 years ago, but it could be more recent and possibly during the 19th century in the USA. I'm convinced its because of Bible reading and the KJV. It is usually more accurate to call an unintentional lie 'Being wrong', because it specifies that you aren't intentionally deceiving or are negligent. Its harsh. In American culture, however, if you repeat a lie unintentionally you are actually lying. There is a responsibility not to pass on an untruth, both personal and organizational. You can fail in that responsibility and become the confederate of the original liar. Perhaps in recent years it has become unfashionable to call people liars, and its certainly impolite and not allowed on the forums here, but being wrong is technically being an unintentional liar. I'm not talking about criminal matters or legal matters. I think in legal circles the unintentional lie is termed 'Negligence', but the point of it is that people have a responsibility for one another.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Who cares if it a lie or not, sometimes we have to say a little white lie for the sake of both of us.

I don't see the OP scenario lie as a white lie though.

 

[McBell]

I think this is something that enters much of Western culture during the Reformation period 400 years ago, but it could be more recent and possibly during the 19th century in the USA. I'm convinced its because of Bible reading and the KJV. It is usually more accurate to call an unintentional lie 'Being wrong', because it specifies that you aren't intentionally deceiving or are negligent. Its harsh. In American culture, however, if you repeat a lie unintentionally you are actually lying. There is a responsibility not to pass on an untruth, both personal and organizational. You can fail in that responsibility and become the confederate of the original liar. Perhaps in recent years it has become unfashionable to call people liars, and its certainly impolite and not allowed on the forums here, but being wrong is technically being an unintentional liar. I'm not talking about criminal matters or legal matters. I think in legal circles the unintentional lie is termed 'Negligence', but the point of it is that people have a responsibility for one another.

Don't get me wrong, when someone posts the same falsehoods over and over after being told numerous times that they are wrong and the truth repeatedly being presented to them, they are lying.
However, the first time, before it is explained to them, they are simply wrong.

 

[savagewind]

It doesn't necessarily need to be a "negative" intention at all. Untrue statements told so as to benefit others are still lies. Sometimes they're referred to as "white lies."


.

It seems to me that my thread on lying did not come up with any agreement from the audience and now, it has. Thank you.
I have stated that to create a false or misleading impression is lying, but most people say that for it to be a lie it has to be paired with
an awareness of the lie. In other words, the person has to be aware he is creating a false or misleading impression for it
to be considered lying. I disagree. It bodes not well for the world, I fear.

Revelation 21:8

Post script: The key word is "create" meaning to think or to say a false impression will not
cause a judging imo. But to do like @Mestemia is saying; [when someone posts the same falsehoods over and over after being told numerous times that they are wrong and the truth repeatedly being presented to them, they are lying.] is doing more than just thinking or even saying. I think it would be making an idol in the mind of anything which is false and therefore misleading.

 

[Britedream]

In my language, anything that contradicts reality is a lie; if you were to tell me that you saw Mike, and in reality you saw Jim, you told me a lie , eventhough you thought he was Mike.

 

[Skwim]

In my language, anything that contradicts reality is a lie; if you were to tell me that you saw Mike, and in reality you saw Jim, you told me a lie , eventhough you thought he was Mike.

Then you have a very peculiar language, and might want to adopt the language of most of the rest of us so as not to misunderstand or mislead us.


.

 

[Jumi]

Yes, he lied but since he changed his mind he's ok.

 

[Britedream]

Then you have a very peculiar language, and might want to adopt the language of most of the rest of us so as not to misunderstand or mislead us.


.

I don't see that is an odd, to the contrary, if the info is presented to be true, while it is false, then it is a lie. your intention doesn't make it true.

 

[McBell]

I don't see that is an odd, to the contrary, if the info is presented to be true, while it is false, then it is a lie. your intention doesn't make true.

Don't even get your math wrong.
Because wrong is a lie.

 

[Britedream]

Don't even get your math wrong.
Because wrong is a lie.

What are you talking about?, we were talking about what people say, not what people do.

 

[McBell]

What are you talking about?, we were talking about what people say, not what people do.

You said that being wrong is a lie.
So you better not mess up the math.
If you do, by your own words, you are lying

 

[Britedream]

You said that being wrong is a lie.
So you better not mess up the math.
If you do, by your own words, you are lying

I don't understand you, please explain, math?

 

[McBell]

I don't understand you, please explain.

You said being wrong is a lie.

So every time you are wrong, you lied.

 

[Britedream]

You said being wrong is a lie.

So every time you are wrong, you lied.

The lie is only in reference to the news you tell others.