ISIS is repeating what Mohammed did a 1400 years back.

[Straw Dog]

Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate. (Koran 9:73)

Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them. Know that God is with the righteous. (Koran 9:123)

The believers who stay at home- apart from those that suffer from a grave impediment- are not the equal of those who fight for the cause of God with their goods and their persons. God has given those that fight with their goods and their persons a higher rank than those who stay at home. God has promised all a good reward; but far richer is the recompense of those who fight for Him... He that leaves his dwelling to fight for God and His apostle and is then overtaken by death, shall be rewarded by God... The unbelievers are your inveterate enemies. (Koran 4:95-101)

Let those who would exchange the life of this world for the here-after, fight for the cause of God; whoever fights for the cause of God, whether he dies or triumphs, We shall richly reward him... The true believers fight for the cause of God, but the infidels fight for the devil. Fight then against the friends of Satan... Say: "Trifling are the pleasure of this life. The here-after is better for those who would keep from evil..." (Koran 4:74-78)


They seem like true believers to me.

 

[Straw Dog]

To clarify my views on this...

I'm all for analyzing deeper layers of meaning, but sometimes you have to look at things for their face-value. Of course, we can always have more nuanced and sophisticated interpretations of scripture, but the most obvious meaning is the most likely to be accepted by the majority of common people. We should avoid generalizing about Islam as either a religion of peace or as a religion of war. At the same time, we cannot claim that it has absolutely nothing to do the violent actions of jihadists. Islam does have something to do with this kind of violence. There is a direct link between belief and behavior. This kind of violence doesn't just happen in a vacuum and it cannot solely be explained by U.S. foreign policy, economics, education, etc.

 

[Britedream]

Listing few Ayat from the Quran and saying this is Islam or saying ISIS interprets the Quran the right way is misleading as the Quran is a big complex subject as you see in the debate, in the following link:

But one might reflect on the reality of Islam at the prophet time:

1- After the peace treaty between the prophet and the people of Mecca, Islam grew quickly. thousands of people entered into Islam. so Islam grows in peace more than in war.

2-Just before the prophet death; in the peak of his triumph, he was doing business with Jews, accepting their invitations, and visiting their sick ones. Does that look anything like the ISIS.

Is the prophet interpreting Islam wrong, Or the ISIS is?.

It is interesting to see how poeple overlook their mistakes while they reconize them for the others. in light of that, it is interesting to see the other half of the debate, and here it is:

 

[Useless2015]

To clarify my views on this...

I'm all for analyzing deeper layers of meaning, but sometimes you have to look at things for their face-value. Of course, we can always have more nuanced and sophisticated interpretations of scripture, but the most obvious meaning is the most likely to be accepted by the majority of common people. We should avoid generalizing about Islam as either a religion of peace or as a religion of war. At the same time, we cannot claim that it has absolutely nothing to do the violent actions of jihadists. Islam does have something to do with this kind of violence. There is a direct link between belief and behavior. This kind of violence doesn't just happen in a vacuum and it cannot solely be explained by U.S. foreign policy, economics, education, etc.

Yeah, i mean its not like the West was dropping bombs every single day since 2003. Ever saw an Iraqi drone flying over LA or Paris dropping bombs? Ever saw a muslim army setting foot in the West with their tanks and weapons? NO. Now are there American drones in Iraq dropping bombs on people? YES. Are there Western armies with weapons? YES. Now why is ISIS mad? They should be thankfull actually.What business is it to a white man from Wisconsin to travel all the way to Iraq with guns and kill people? Maybe its me, but the difference between IS and Western military, is that IS committed less crimes.
I am muslim and i will not make any excuses for the 'violent' verses in the Quran. To survive against Western imperialism, this the only remedy. The West knows they are unwanted and hated in the middle east and what do they do? They keep coming back. F!ck off. Just stay in your own countries and stop bombing other countries. As long as America is bombing muslims, muslims like IS or Al Qaida will continue to fight back. Its 1+1=2.

 

[icehorse]

Hey Useless,

Count me as someone who is appalled by Western interventions in the ME, AND who doesn't think those Western interventions come close to explaining or justifying ISIS's actions.

For example, how do Western interventions cause ISIS to take Christian and Muslim sex slaves?

 

[Useless2015]

Hey Useless,

Count me as someone who is appalled by Western interventions in the ME, AND who doesn't think those Western interventions come close to explaining or justifying ISIS's actions.

For example, how do Western interventions cause ISIS to take Christian and Muslim sex slaves?

Hint: Not everything the Media tells you is actually true. If honesty would be introduced in the Media, the world would be a so much better place to live in.
If you do not understand than you do not understand.
Maybe if bombs would be thrown on the West on a daily basis for 12 years! And if any American gets mad and wants to do something about it? HE IS A TERRORIST.

 

[YmirGF]

Hint: Not everything the Media tells you is actually true. If honesty would be introduced in the Media, the world would be a so much better place to live in.
If you do not understand than you do not understand.
Maybe if bombs would be thrown on the West on a daily basis for 12 years! And if any American gets mad and wants to do something about it? HE IS A TERRORIST.

So we should just let the Islamic State rampage its way through the region and let the chips fall where they may?

 

[Useless2015]

So we should just let the Islamic State rampage its way through the region and let the chips fall where they may?

Why do you feel called to do something? Why can't Americans stay in America?

 

[icehorse]

Hint: Not everything the Media tells you is actually true. If honesty would be introduced in the Media, the world would be a so much better place to live in.
If you do not understand than you do not understand.
Maybe if bombs would be thrown on the West on a daily basis for 12 years! And if any American gets mad and wants to do something about it? HE IS A TERRORIST.

I've already agreed with much of your point, AND found it largely non-responsive to my counter point. I'll ask again, how does the West's bomb dropping motivate ISIS to take Muslim sex slaves?

 

[arthra]

Isis is slaughtering and torturing Yazdies for their religious beliefs. Every other religions are their targets.
Mohammed too did the same -mercilessly butchered other then existing peaceful and more morally developed civilizations. Raped even kids. Many islamic countries say Isis is not muslim - but for me it is like saying "Prophet Mohammed" is not islamic.

Morph,

Your view of Muhammad needs revision... The Qur'an sets limits on treatment of prisoners and only advocates defensive war. Slaughtering and torturing Yazidis is un Islamic. Up until the Isis crowd the Yazidis were persecuted in the past but nothing like they've been abused by Isis. Think about it.

 

[Useless2015]

I've already agreed with much of your point, AND found it largely non-responsive to my counter point. I'll ask again, how does the West's bomb dropping motivate ISIS to take Muslim sex slaves?

Do you have facts to back this up? So i am not looking for CNN or Fox, i am looking for official statements by IS.

 

[Useless2015]

Moprph,

Your view of Muhammad needs revision... The Qur'an sets limits on treatment of prisoners and only advocates defensive war. Slaughtering and torturing Yazidis is un Islamic. Up until the Isis crowd the Yazidis were persecuted in the past but nothing like they've been abused by Isis. Think about it.

39. “To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight) for they have been oppressed, and verily Allah is well able to assist them.”


40. “(They are) those who have been expelled from their homes without right, except that they say: ‘Our Lord is Allah’. And had Allah not repelled some people by others, certainly there would have been pulled down cloisters and churches and synagogues and the mosques in which Allah’s name is much mentioned; and verily Allah will help him who helps Him (His cause); for verily Allah is Strong, Mighty.”

 

[Augustus]

Do you have facts to back this up? So i am not looking for CNN or Fox, i am looking for official statements by IS.

About sex slaves (Yazidi, not Christian)? They covered it in depth in 'Dabiq' (issue 9 I think) and were very proud of it citing numerous theological arguments. It's very easy to find on the internet.

Before this, many ISIS fanboys called it media lies and propaganda, then as soon as ISIS admitted it the same fanboys did an about face and started toeing the party line about how it was halal and they had agreed with it all of the time.

Just because you hate the West is no reason to blind yourself to reality. 2 wrongs don't make a right.

edit: It was issue 9

But what really alarmed me was that some of the Islamic State supporters (may Allah forgive them) rushed to defend the Islamic State – may its honor persist and may Allah expand its territory – after the kāfir media touched upon the State’s capture of the Yazīdī women. So the supporters started denying the matter as if the soldiers of the Khilāfah had committed a mistake or evil.

Thus, after the matter transcended its limits and the barking of the charlatans – the wicked scholars – rose upon the pulpits of deviance, it became necessary to face their declarations with a declaration, but one of truth, to suppress their falsehood and restrain their tongues.

Yes, Allah has opened the lands for His awliyā’, so they entered and dispersed within the lands, killing the fighters of the kuffār, capturing their women, and enslaving their children.

I write this while the letters drip of pride. Yes, O religions of kufr altogether, we have indeed raided and captured the kāfirah women, and drove them like sheep by the edge of the sword. And glory belongs to Allah, to His Messenger, and the believers, but the hypocrites do not know!

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

If ISIS was truly muslims upon truth, i would have joined them or i would support them.

But they are backstabbing criminals financed by the Zionists and every enemy of Islam.

 

[Augustus]

If ISIS was truly muslims upon truth, i would have joined them or i would support them.

But they are backstabbing criminals financed by the Zionists and every enemy of Islam.

I know most Muslims hate them, but why is everything about the Jews? Can't anything evil happen in the world without these shadowy Jewish puppet masters weaving their nefarious magic?

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

I know most Muslims hate them, but why is everything about the Jews? Can't anything evil happen in the world without these shadowy Jewish puppet masters weaving their nefarious magic?

Well because sometimes Zionists will do anything to weaken muslims.


Till today isis is doing nothing else but weakening muslims and dividing them more.

If only they cooperated with the mujahideen and they formed some sort of unity against the enemies.

 

[Augustus]

Well because sometimes Zionists will do anything to weaken muslims.


Till today isis is doing nothing else but weakening muslims and dividing them more.

If only they cooperated with the mujahideen and they formed some sort of unity against the enemies.

How come a small number of Jews always manage to outsmart millions of Muslims? Why do they scare you so much?

You live in a fantasy world where everything would be perfect without these pesky Jews messing everything up. Muslims have been killing each other continuously since the days of the Rashidun. Was it always about the Jews?

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

How come a small number of Jews always manage to outsmart millions of Muslims? Why do they scare you so much?

You live in a fantasy world where everything would be perfect without these pesky Jews messing everything up. Muslims have been killing each other continuously since the days of the Rashidun. Was it always about the Jews?

Augustus, i prefer the Words of Allah swt above the words of Humans.

He SWT told us clearly that the people who hate the believers the most are (majority,not all jews)Jews and Polytheists.

Anyways this is not the topic.


I know only if Isis was True mujahideen and a real Caliphate, it would become compulsory for muslims to join them.

 

[icehorse]

Do you have facts to back this up? So i am not looking for CNN or Fox, i am looking for official statements by IS.

 

[Useless2015]

About sex slaves (Yazidi, not Christian)? They covered it in depth in 'Dabiq' (issue 9 I think) and were very proud of it citing numerous theological arguments. It's very easy to find on the internet.

Before this, many ISIS fanboys called it media lies and propaganda, then as soon as ISIS admitted it the same fanboys did an about face and started toeing the party line about how it was halal and they had agreed with it all of the time.

Just because you hate the West is no reason to blind yourself to reality. 2 wrongs don't make a right.

edit: It was issue 9

But what really alarmed me was that some of the Islamic State supporters (may Allah forgive them) rushed to defend the Islamic State – may its honor persist and may Allah expand its territory – after the kāfir media touched upon the State’s capture of the Yazīdī women. So the supporters started denying the matter as if the soldiers of the Khilāfah had committed a mistake or evil.

Thus, after the matter transcended its limits and the barking of the charlatans – the wicked scholars – rose upon the pulpits of deviance, it became necessary to face their declarations with a declaration, but one of truth, to suppress their falsehood and restrain their tongues.

Yes, Allah has opened the lands for His awliyā’, so they entered and dispersed within the lands, killing the fighters of the kuffār, capturing their women, and enslaving their children.

I write this while the letters drip of pride. Yes, O religions of kufr altogether, we have indeed raided and captured the kāfirah women, and drove them like sheep by the edge of the sword. And glory belongs to Allah, to His Messenger, and the believers, but the hypocrites do not know!

Killing women or children is not allowed in Islaam. It is actually in the laws of war for muslims. I asked for a source and you provided the source. Not going in denial, i completely disagree with ISIS on this. But is this any way different than what the US has been doing? Dropping bombs on hospitals and civillians? What happened to the rights muslim women and children have? Do they not count? Why is ISIS portrayed as pure evil if ,the West easily is the only true genocidemachine?