Islam belief, Noah, the Great Flood and Science. Coherent or contradictory?

[Jedster]

I thought you were Mr. Take it out of Context guy? I'm Bitter and Venomous. And, you've met Mr. Vendetta. If you're ever feeling left out, doubt worry, we're here for you. So I guess the Baha'i Faith can unite people with different beliefs and different backgrounds.

Indeed, I have heard it said that 'the Lord works in mysterious ways'.

 

[Audie]

There is evidence for floods all over the world. Some say that means one worldwide flood, some say thats a bunch of local floods everywhere at different times.

In anycase, i dont have a problem with noahs flood being local.

But neither do i discount a global flood only on the grounds of "consensus". As if consensus cant be wrong. As if consensus cant miss something. As if consensus does not have a wide mix of individuals who have biases, ignorences, sometimes flat out dishonestys, stupidity, wanting to fit in with there peers, ect, ect.

I dont go by consensus, i go by the desire to understand and learn. Consensus shuts that off.

Like, consensus all says THIS.

Ok, well id like to understand "THIS"

You see the difference?

If you've a desire to learn, you'd soon enough
see that you could equally and to no point
apply "just because-consensus" to the earth
being round.

"Some say" Elvis lives yet.

If it did matter to you, you would understand
that the flood story is a lot sillier than
"Elvis lives".

Would you like to, you know, understand this?

 

[Audie]

Heh heh! ..... if you're wrong.......
Didymus, struggling up the long winding staircase, and Saint Peter standing at the top, looking down, with a great big toothy grin ......... saying, 'Come on up! Don't Dawdle! I'm waiting!!'

Ah, the whatif. I think some guy, Pascal...?

My big worry is getting hung by my hair in eternal
fire for exposing my hair, or by my tongue for
being a loudmouth woman.

Whatif Islam is it? You will be in trouble too.

 

[shunyadragon]

I have a vendetta too. (Feeling left out.)

I did not .neglect you, but you slipped to the background,and became the cheerleader of @oldbadger and @CG Didymus

 

[Jollybear]

If you've a desire to learn, you'd soon enough
see that you could equally and to no point
apply "just because-consensus" to the earth
being round.

Oh im sure ya could, but comparing apples to oranges also does not help because it also shuts down discussion to the content of the actual subject. Dont believe the flood, because doing so is like believing the earth is flat.

You see? These tactics are all belittling distractions.

"Some say" Elvis lives yet.

If it did matter to you, you would understand
that the flood story is a lot sillier than
"Elvis lives".

Thats a bit prenaturely said, dont ya think? Its also apples to oranges, elvis lives, and a flood. It dont compare. Its yet another distraction and a belittling tactic.

Would you like to, you know, understand this?

Sure, go ahead.

 

[Audie]

Oh im sure ya could, but comparing apples to oranges also does not help because it also shuts down discussion to the content of the actual subject. Dont believe the flood, because doing so is like believing the earth is flat.

You see? These tactics are all belittling distractions.



Thats a bit prenaturely said, dont ya think? Its also apples to oranges, elvis lives, and a flood. It dont compare. Its yet another distraction and a belittling tactic.



Sure, go ahead.

I am not doing "tactics" on you, but whatevs.

 

[Vinayaka]

I did not .neglect you, but you slipped to the background,and became the cheerleader of @oldbadger and @CG Didymus

Until I encountered your faith here on this forum, I knew nothing about it. But after having many long discussions, I do admit that my neutrality has switched over to mild disdain ... due to talking to the proverbial 'brick wall' mentality of fundamentalism. Earlier in life the same thing happened from talking to fundamentalist Christians. OTOH, many faiths other than my own have managed to change neutrality to admiration through far more sensible approaches to life.

But vendetta? Nope, sorry. If you want to see that, go to the anti-Baha'i sites, if you dare.

 

[Audie]

Until I encountered your faith here on this forum, I knew nothing about it. But after having many long discussions, I do admit that my neutrality has switched over to mild disdain ... due to talking to the proverbial 'brick wall' mentality of fundamentalism. Earlier in life the same thing happened from talking to fundamentalist Christians. OTOH, many faiths other than my own have managed to change neutrality to admiration through far more sensible approaches to life.

But vendetta? Nope, sorry. If you want to see that, go to the anti-Baha'i sites, if you dare.

Same here, mostly.
Tho-
The mild disdain gets stronger and more
focused with each post.

Likewise for our would-be Buddhists.

 

[Vinayaka]

Same here, mostly.
Tho-
The mild disdain gets stronger and more
focused with each post.

Likewise for our would-be Buddhists.

In my experience, the degree to which individuality comes through varies by faith here. For example I've discovered several strains of atheism, and Buddhist, too, for that matter. But with some, the group mentality comes through loud and clear. It seems like it's one person with 7 sock puppets, but I know that isn't possible. It is quite evident in the 'like's as well. The birds of a feather tend to click 'like' for other birds of the same feather. Probably just has to do with the vastness of each faith though. Some have many schools of thought within them, whereas others, like the Baha'i', just have one.

 

[oldbadger]

I did not .neglect you, but you slipped to the background,and became the cheerleader of]

@CG Didymus
@Vinayaka
And Oldbadger.......

Please Mr Shunyadrago, can we have badges?
I like badges.......

 

[Vinayaka]

@CG Didymus
@Vinayaka
And Oldbadger.......

Please Mr Shunyadrago, can we have badges?
I like badges.......

You hateful hateful man.

 

[shunyadragon]

@CG Didymus
@Vinayaka
And Oldbadger.......

Please Mr Shunyadrago, can we have badges?
I like badges.......

I will provide falsies, wigs, skirts and pompoms

 

[shunyadragon]

Until I encountered your faith here on this forum, I knew nothing about it. But after having many long discussions, I do admit that my neutrality has switched over to mild disdain ... due to talking to the proverbial 'brick wall' mentality of fundamentalism. Earlier in life the same thing happened from talking to fundamentalist Christians. OTOH, many faiths other than my own have managed to change neutrality to admiration through far more sensible approaches to life.

But vendetta? Nope, sorry. If you want to see that, go to the anti-Baha'i sites, if you dare.

I have not remotely mentioned no criticized your belief nor the others in this thread nor any other, but the unnecessary acrid disdain (not mild disdain in any form) is apparent when we simply disagree on questions of belief.

When we disagree there is no brick wall from the Baha'i perspective, unless you choose to make words bricks and build your own wall.

 

[Vinayaka]

I have not remotely mentioned no criticized your belief nor the others in this thread nor any other, but the unnecessary acrid disdain (not mild disdain in any form) is apparent when we simply disagree on questions of belief.

When we disagree there is no brick wall from the Baha'i perspective, unless you choose to make words bricks and build your own wall.

You personally didn't, that's true. It was in the Baha'i writings themselves, and since you're Baha'i and the writings are infallible, it seemed a fair assumption.

 

[Audie]

In my experience, the degree to which individuality comes through varies by faith here. For example I've discovered several strains of atheism, and Buddhist, too, for that matter. But with some, the group mentality comes through loud and clear. It seems like it's one person with 7 sock puppets, but I know that isn't possible. It is quite evident in the 'like's as well. The birds of a feather tend to click 'like' for other birds of the same feather. Probably just has to do with the vastness of each faith though. Some have many schools of thought within them, whereas others, like the Baha'i', just have one.

I do at least try to think for myself.
I am very uncomfortable with the way
"Mainlanders" will say, "We Chinese think..".

Our fundies etc will do anything to avoid
going off the rail.

Probably some people need to be a part of group-
think. We observe people studying and striving
to bring their thoughts and beliefs fully in
line with what they should be. Praising "teachers"
for their role.

It sure is not for me.

 

[Vinayaka]

I do at least try to think for myself.
I am very uncomfortable with the way
"Mainlanders" will say, "We Chinese think..".

Probably some need to be a part of group-
think. We observe them studying and striving
to bring their thoughts and beliefs fully in
line with wat they should be. Praising "teachers"
for their role.

It sure is not for me.

Me neither, although I am a member of a small religious group with shared beliefs.

 

[shunyadragon]

You personally didn't, that's true. It was in the Baha'i writings themselves, and since you're Baha'i and the writings are infallible, it seemed a fair assumption.

Lack of knowledge does not make it a fair assumption, The Baha'i writings are only infallible in certain aspects. Spiritual Laws have a temporal period of application, Concerning spiritual Laws and principles, yes, and the spiritual laws and principles are interpreted and applied over time by the Houses of Justice, but as with the history of all religions infallibility is an evolving concept. In terms of science, and history particularly since commentary. I believe one thing very very clear in the past. The Baha'i writings believe in the harmony of science and religion, and scripture,including Baha'i scripture,must be interpreted and understood in the light of the evolving knowledge of science.

Also,it must be understood that progressive Revelation is an evolving process of Spiritual knowledge,and as in the past. Revelation is progressive and human knowledge evolves over time involving a human history hundreds of thousands and possibly millions of years.Humans both physically and spiritually evolve,

 

[Vinayaka]

Lack of knowledge does not make it a fair assumption, The Baha'i writings are only infallible in certain aspects. Spiritual Laws have a temporal period of application, Concerning spiritual Laws and principles, yes, and the spiritual laws and principles are interpreted and applied over time by the Houses of Justice, but as with the history of all religions infallibility is an evolving concept. In terms of science, and history particularly since commentary. I believe one thing very very clear in the past. The Baha'i writings believe in the harmony of science and religion, and scripture,including Baha'i scripture,must be interpreted and understood in the light of the evolving knowledge of science.

Also,it must be understood that progressive Revelation is an evolving process of Spiritual knowledge,and as in the past. Revelation is progressive and human knowledge evolves over time involving a human history hundreds of thousands and possibly millions of years.Humans both physically and spiritually evolve,

Sorry, but I've been through this way too much previously with your brother Baha'is and I'm not about to see the same move for the 20th time. All the non-Baha'i here that have engaged are quite familiar with it.

 

[shunyadragon]

Sorry, but I've been through this way too much previously with your brother Baha'is and I'm not about to see the same move for the 20th time. All the non-Baha'i here that have engaged are quite familiar with it.

As far as I can see so far is all the non-Baha'is take a negative view of the Baha'i Faith, and only familiar with Baha'i from a very selective perspective.

 

[shunyadragon]

I dont think its mythology. Interestingly, none of these stories and records come with the tage "mythology" on it.

Ancient cultures composed their writing in terms that everything was true, handed down first orally. The concept of myth was unknown to them,but nonetheless,much of what they wrote was myth set in history. The list of kings was.what they believed, like Biblical geneology, but not necessarily true, and most likely partially created from oral history I would not likely describe it as mythology, but simply created geneology from oral history.