Islam belief, Noah, the Great Flood and Science. Coherent or contradictory?

[CG Didymus]

I have been a Baha'i since 1971, and this is a ridiculous biased generalization of the Baha'i Faith. I've never been a conservative nor a Hippie. .

Of course it's "ridiculous" and a "biased" generalization to you. But, I wasn't talking to you. So how would I word it to you? Maybe, some Baha'is tended to be more conservative than others. While some Baha'is seemed very easy going and very liberal in their views.

But, let's get back to Noah. How do you explain the ages of the people in Genesis?

 

[shunyadragon]

How is it distorted? Baha'is here have said that reincarnation isn't true. So any religion that teaches that is wrong. They have said that Jesus is dead and did not physically rise from the dead. So any Christian church that teaches that he did rise physically from the dead is wrong. Or, are those Baha'is that have said those things wrong?

Again, yes the writings of the Baha'i Faith believe reincarnation is true. The Baha'i Faith teaches this is a man made belief to give hope for another chance, Baha'i writings describe journey of the soul is through many worlds, and not a specific return to this world. This is a spiritual law.

So what? Do you expect all to agree in reincarnation just because one religion believes in reincarnation?

There are many beliefs in religions the Baha'i Faith considers man made such as the Trinity in Christianity.

 

[shunyadragon]

This link I found certainly supports your 'liberal and conservative' idea. About Liberal Bahai

It has a liberal statement, as well as the ultraconservative response.

There is nothing wrong with being a conservative, liberal nor Hippie Baha'i. What I objected to was the generalization of what Baha'is are, and you stepped right into the dung pile.

 

[Trailblazer]

This link I found certainly supports your 'liberal and conservative' idea. About Liberal Bahai

Thanks. that explains why I have never felt I fit in with most other Baha'is. I like the Baha'i Faith, but one cannot put a square peg in a round hole.

 

[shunyadragon]

But, let's get back to Noah. How do you explain the ages of the people in Genesis?

The Baha'i writings say a max of about 120 years. I already covered the belief that ancients recorded what they believed was true,but of course much of scripture,such as history and science is from the human perspective and NOT Revelation. It is ancient trivia and not important how old Noah lived to.

 

[shunyadragon]

Thanks. that explains why I have never felt I fit in with most other Baha'is. I like the Baha'i Faith, but one cannot put a square peg in a round hole.

. . . and not all pegs and holes are round, square or whatever.

 

[CG Didymus]

Some of you guys sure get excitable if someone dares
to suggest (shudder) thinking about the myths or that
(Gasp) they might not be Perfect Truth!!!

Heat up the Iron Maiden, make sure the rack is in
working order!!!

So far, I think your religion makes the most sense. Let me see what it is? "None". Good choice.

 

[Trailblazer]

So far, I think your religion makes the most sense. Let me see what it is? "None". Good choice.

For a guy who does not *like* religion, you sure do talk about it a lot...
Me, not so much... I just believe in Baha'u'llah.

 

[CG Didymus]

This link I found certainly supports your 'liberal and conservative' idea. About Liberal Bahai

It has a liberal statement, as well as the ultraconservative response.

Good job in finding that. But when I say that "I still think there is a definite Liberal vs. Conservative side to Baha'is." That I was making it clear that it was my opinion, not the "gospel" truth. Why do other people have to take things so literal and out of context and get their jockey shorts all in a bunch?

 

[CG Didymus]

For a guy who does not *like* religion, you sure do talk about it a lot...
Me, not so much... I just believe in Baha'u'llah.

Where did I say I didn't "like" religion? However, since there is so much variance in beliefs of the major religions, and the Baha'is claim that all the major religions are one, I thought I'd challenge some of the Baha'i beliefs. Like, so far, I haven't seen an answer from the Baha'is that explains the flood or Noah's age. What do you think?

 

[CG Didymus]

There is nothing wrong with being a conservative, liberal nor Hippie Baha'i. What I objected to was the generalization of what Baha'is are, and you stepped right into the dung pile.

"I still think there is a definite Liberal vs. Conservative side to Baha'is." That sounds like an opinion to me. Or, is that against Baha'i law for non-Baha'is to have personal opinions? And maybe it is, I knew some of the people that were involved with the "Dialogue" magazine and the "Modest Proposal" article. What was their crime?

 

[CG Didymus]

The Baha'i writings say a max of about 120 years. I already covered the belief that ancients recorded what they believed was true,but of course much of scripture,such as history and science is from the human perspective and NOT Revelation. It is ancient trivia and not important how old Noah lived to.

So, it's not important that the Bible says something that isn't true? That the "ancients" that recorded it believed it was true? Then those Bible stories are not from God? Then the manifestation didn't "bring" a book that had the truth about God? You've said things about it being redacted and edited and did you add embellished? Or, fictional? If yes, then I can agree with you. But, I'm also open to the slight possibility that it is perfectly true. I just doubt it very, very much.

 

[CG Didymus]

Thanks. that explains why I have never felt I fit in with most other Baha'is. I like the Baha'i Faith, but one cannot put a square peg in a round hole.

Unfortunately, with a big enough hammer, some try. I'm glad you fit in here enough to give your "two cents".

 

[oldbadger]

Let make you an offer here... you don't have to, but you can refuse it. What if... the writer of Genesis made it up? Why does it have to be symbolic? The guy is thinking, "Hmmm, I've got five books to write... how should I begin?" He gets a brainstorm... "In the beginning..." But, by the end of the first book, he needs to get to the Hebrews being held captive in Egypt. He thinks, "Does anyone really know what happened? Let me take a few legends and myths and traditions and come up with a good story." So he comes up with the Flood and people living hundreds of years.

Why do the Baha'is have to complicate everything? If the Baha'is have all the answers, why don't they have better explanations for these basic questions about the Bible stories?

Manifestations of God are so close to God that they know everything, Didymus, but they had to pass messages on to useless, silly, daft, dunderheads, like..... like.... well, like me, I guess, and so they 'veil' all their knowledge and truth to protect us from being .... umm.... well..... told the truth.

I had a dream last night about an angel that came to me and she, you know, she..... no Didymus, not that, she just told me stuff.

She said,' Oldbadger, you're a dum-bum and so it's much holier to tell you a pile of horse-poo than to explain the truth........... and for God's sake get your bloody hair cut. You see, she'd been on that thread 'n' all.

 

[oldbadger]

Badges? I don't need no stinkin badges!

Can I have yours as well, then?

 

[Trailblazer]

Where did I say I didn't "like" religion? However, since there is so much variance in beliefs of the major religions, and the Baha'is claim that all the major religions are one, I thought I'd challenge some of the Baha'i beliefs. Like, so far, I haven't seen an answer from the Baha'is that explains the flood or Noah's age. What do you think?

The variance in beliefs is easily explained by progressive revelation coupled with the way the followers of the older religions have corrupted the original revelations.

“This is the Day when the loved ones of God should keep their eyes directed towards His Manifestation, and fasten them upon whatsoever that Manifestation may be pleased to reveal. Certain traditions of bygone ages rest on no foundations whatever, while the notions entertained by past generations, and which they have recorded in their books, have, for the most part, been influenced by the desires of a corrupt inclination. Thou dost witness how most of the commentaries and interpretations of the words of God, now current amongst men, are devoid of truth. Their falsity hath, in some cases, been exposed when the intervening veils were rent asunder. They themselves have acknowledged their failure in apprehending the meaning of any of the words of God.” Gleanings, p. 171-172​

Regarding the flood, Baha'u'llah told us to disregard tales and traditions so I do not think about those things.

“Moreover, it is not Our wish to relate the stories of the days that are past. God is Our witness that what We even now mention is due solely to Our tender affection for thee, that haply the poor of the earth may attain the shores of the sea of wealth, the ignorant be led unto the ocean of divine knowledge, and they that thirst for understanding partake of the Salsabíl of divine wisdom. Otherwise, this servant regardeth the consideration of such records a grave mistake and a grievous transgression.” The Kitáb-i-Íqán, pp. 62-63

“Please God thou wilt turn thine eyes towards the Most Great Revelation, and entirely disregard these conflicting tales and traditions.”
Gleanings, pp. 174-175​

 

[Trailblazer]

Unfortunately, with a big enough hammer, some try. I'm glad you fit in here enough to give your "two cents".

Thanks... My two cents have been mostly on the atheist threads lately.
Most of this religion stuff is way over my head.

 

[Trailblazer]

... they are all wrong... unless, they accept the Baha'i interpretation of the beliefs of their own religion. Then, there's "unity".

We have enough problems reading all the Baha'i Writings and figuring out what they mean.

Except to point out that certain prophecies refer to Baha'u'llah, Baha'is should not be meddling in older scriptures. We are told to move on but some Baha'is just cannot let go of the past.

Then of course CG keeps asking us about the older scriptures and how we interpret them.

 

[oldbadger]

Spiritual Principle -

So WHAT is 'SPIRITUAL'?

The Harmony of Science and Religion.

No..... that's HARMONY.

Scripture must be understood and interpreted in the light of the evolving knowledge of science concerning the physical nature of our existence..

No..... that is knowing and understanding.... what is 'SPIRITUAL'?

Spiritual Law - The mandatory education of all children.

No.... that's LEGISLATION.
And filling kids heads with Bahai Indoctrination ain't anything to do with being Spiritual.


What is this SPIRITUAL?
Bahai stays away from Spirits and things Spiritual.

 

[shunyadragon]

So WHAT is 'SPIRITUAL'?


No..... that's HARMONY.


No..... that is knowing and understanding.... what is 'SPIRITUAL'?


No.... that's LEGISLATION.
And filling kids heads with Bahai Indoctrination ain't anything to do with being Spiritual.


What is this SPIRITUAL?
Bahai stays away from Spirits and things Spiritual.

Look spiritual up in the dictionary. You know . . . kidneys,kidneys, kidneys.