Islam fights free speech

[Godobeyer]

Trusted Islamic sources say that Aisha was nine years old - i.e. a child when she was married off to Muhammad.

Narrated Aisha:
The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became all right, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age. (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 58, Number 234)

Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death). (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 62,Number 64; see also Numbers 65 and 88)

'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married her when she was seven years old, and he was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her; and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old. (Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Number 3311)

Dr Adnan Ibrahim proved by historic evidences that Al-Bukhari made mistake with age of Aisha(pbuh).

 

[The_Fisher_King]

I predict that Islam will continually bang its head against modernity and see no chance of this changing.

Islam has always evolved, and will continue to do so. New forms and interpretations have emerged throughout history (as has been the case with other religions).

The weird part is that this particular faith views itself as being supreme and better than any other faith on the planet

To be fair, many people believe their faith is the best faith (I appreciate not all take this view).

The weird part is that this particular faith views itself as being supreme and better than any other faith on the planet even when reality shows that that is hardly the case given the plight of Muslims the world over.

There is more to the plight of Muslims the world over than a certain tendency towards moral conservatism.

What is truly weird is that many Muslims see themselves as the natural leaders of the world and yet there is no area, no category, other than fanaticism, that Muslims lead the world in.

Once we did indeed lead the world in many areas. And there are still great individual Muslims (as there are great individuals from all other faiths). But sadly, the Muslim world is indeed in one of its darker periods right now.

 

[faroukfarouk]

The most intellectual man in the modern World has a problem answering a simple question.

When does a child become a women?

 

[faroukfarouk]

The answer is in the Noble Quraan.

 

[McBell]

Do women play in swings?

Yes

Can a 9 year old girl become a women?

Define "woman".
Seems a silly request, but the fact of the matter is that some cultures define "women" as starting their period.
Other define it as being married.
Still others define it as having intercourse.

Do women play with dolls?

Yes.

When does a child become a women?

here is the crux of it, the definition of "woman".

 

[McBell]

The most intellectual man in the modern World has a problem answering a simple question.

please feel free to define "woman" for us.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

God called ALL disbelievers (not just) Christian or Jews worst of creatures,NOT in this life.in hereafter.
which mean LOSERS.

And it's things like this that only reinforces the belief that Islam cannot co-exist peacefully with other faiths.

 

[meghanwaterlillies]

i was also joking.
No offence mate.

you say forgive my ignorancy everybody knows people aren't ignorant just coming from another religion. Bullied maybe.

Do women play in swings?
Can a 9 year old girl become a women?
Do women play with dolls?

When does a child become a women?

I do play with dolls and no I don't think 9 year old could become a woman. I don't even remember much as a 9 year old.
Men and women or young people grow into their love. What prevents a singular man and women from a natural co habitation and mutual love as been a an age old response to many questions.
The garden of eden as been one but it certain wasn't a bunch of 9 years olds. As Adam was a man and Eve was a woman. You say forgive my ignorance everybody knows people aren't ignorant just coming from another religion. Bullied maybe. The bullied can become bullies. Anyways because of abandonment, and the cutting off the tree of life and destruction of love between of a man and a woman; it made religious ideas run into murky waters, cased scribes and laws that based on all shrewdness. Have you looked into the pattern of a people being lost and oppressed that the religious leaders took on an art form of scribing whether good or bad?
Jesus said something after dealing with what they thought was best for the law and the priesthood.
He said women weep not for me but weep for yourselves and for your children because if they do this to THE LIVING TREE imagine what they will do you. Its in point a bad practice of love. And have you looked at some of ideas that has cut off the tree of life world wide?

 

[YmirGF]

Healthy for what to make babies?

Ermmm, @faroukfarouk call me silly, but there is a tiny bit more to being a woman that having the ability to pop out babies. Jus' sayin'...

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Dr Adnan Ibrahim proved by historic evidences that Al-Bukhari made mistake with age of Aisha(pbuh).

All he gave was conjecture and the assumption that the writers of the hadith made mistakes that he was able to pick up on over a thousand years after the fact only because the current narrative makes him uncomfortable. His argument also ignores something that Muslims just love to remind us about whenever Aisha's age is brought up: everyone was doing it. Back then a girl would have been viewed as a liability, a drain on her family and she would have been married off at as early an age as possible.

Even if she wasn't nine, and assuming she was married off when she started menstruating, that's still a median age of about 13 or 14 which is still considered childhood - well, by civilised societies it is.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

A robust religion should be able to withstand mockery without finding it necessary to resort to intimidation of any kind.

The thing is, a religion is an ideology. A religion cannot react to anything. However, followers can and do, and we even have examples of extreme violence coming from the occasional Buddhist. And there are also different interpretations, and many Muslims consider what ISIS do to be a mockery, as no one has the right to take a life except for Allah, there is no compulsion to convert, and the hooligan and violent Muslims are giving Islam a bad name, portraying it in a bad light, and driving people away from it.

 

[YmirGF]

Islam has always evolved, and will continue to do so. New forms and interpretations have emerged throughout history (as has been the case with other religions).



To be fair, many people believe their faith is the best faith (I appreciate not all take this view).



There is more to the plight of Muslims the world over than a certain tendency towards moral conservatism.



Once we did indeed lead the world in many areas. And there are still great individual Muslims (as there are great individuals from all other faiths). But sadly, the Muslim world is indeed in one of its darker periods right now.

I've said it many times before but if there were more Muslims like you, you would never hear me saying anything critical about Islam though I may still look at it with more than a little pity. The great sadness is that, yes, the "western" world has really screwed over the Muslim world, let's be clear on that. Blithering, idiotic mistake after mistake after mistake, decade after decade... ... however the Muslim world was already in steep decline long before the "western" world took us all to dizzying new scientific and technological heights. The demise seems to coincide with the fall of Andalusa, as near as I can determine, as the Muslim world ceased to be an intellectual powerhouse shortly thereafter - and has simply never recovered - to this day.

 

[Notanumber]

Bill explains Islam, including Political Islam.

 

[YmirGF]

All he gave was conjecture and the assumption that the writers of the hadith made mistakes that he was able to pick up on over a thousand years after the fact only because the current narrative makes him uncomfortable. His argument also ignores something that Muslims just love to remind us about whenever Aisha's age is brought up: everyone was doing it. Back then a girl would have been viewed as a liability, a drain on her family and she would have been married off at as early an age as possible.

Even if she wasn't nine, and assuming she was married off when she started menstruating, that's still a median age of about 13 or 14 which is still considered childhood - well, by civilised societies it is.

I don't tend to get my knickers in a twist on this, well GreasedOne. The fact we all seem to forget is taking a young wife was quite common up to the 1900's in our society. Maybe not 12 or younger, but still young by current standards. That said, I tend to go with the level of denial, like that of a small child accused of some naughty act. The stronger the denial, the more creative the argument, the greater the likelihood that they are telling porkies. Think of Hillary and emails....

 

[YmirGF]

Bill explains Islam, including Political Islam.

Bill Warner.... such an exquisite last name given the topics he covers - but he is just another hater of Islam -- so we can happily ignore everything he says. (At our own peril.)

 

[meghanwaterlillies]

Ok sorry for my ignorancy.
Learnt something new.
habla Akbar.

You know where you came from or the bed rock of the area. Lots of people came from there that tree of life descended from that area.
Woman weep not for me but weep for yourselves if they do if the DO THIS TO THE LIVING tree imagine what they will do to you.
Best thing you do is make you laugh....

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Bill explains Islam, including Political Islam.

The way he worded the first two sentences. "Hello, I'm Bill Warner and I'd like to talk to you about my books. Let's start with that most famous of all books; the Quran."

He might want to work on his grammar here or people might think he's claiming he wrote the Quran

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

I don't tend to get my knickers in a twist on this, well GreasedOne. The fact we all seem to forget is taking a young wife was quite common up to the 1900's in our society. Maybe not 12 or younger, but still young by current standards. That said, I tend to go with the level of denial, like that of a small child accused of some naughty act. The stronger the denial, the more creative the argument, the greater the likelihood that they are telling porkies. Think of Hillary and emails....

Well the problem for Muslims is the hadiths were written by people who never met Aisha or Muhammad so even the writers relied on the conjecture of others as much as Muslims do today. With that in mind it becomes very difficult to see why one should be more right than the other without falling into arguments from tradition. Indeed, Dr Ibrahim could be right, but the quality of his argument does not rise higher than the ahadith he is disputing so it's impossible to tell. It all relies on 'he said, she said'.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Well the problem for Muslims is the hadiths were written by people who never met Aisha or Muhammad so even the writers relied on the conjecture of others as much as Muslims do today. With that in mind it becomes very difficult to see why one should be more right than the other without falling into arguments from tradition. Indeed, Dr Ibrahim could be right, but the quality of his argument does not rise higher than the ahadith he is disputing so it's impossible to tell. It all relies on 'he said, she said'.

Oh, for goodness sake .. you are talking about 1500 years ago in an isolated desrt oasis. No registry office .. no birth certificates ..did they even celebrate birthdays?

People will use whatever they can to attack Islam .. it's complete and utter nonsense!
Nothing inappropriate happened. May Almighty God punish me with eternal hell if it did!

 

[SomeRandom]

Do women play in swings?
Can a 9 year old girl become a women?
Do women play with dolls?

When does a child become a women?

I would not consider a 9 year old a woman. Unless we're talking the Middle Ages when living past 5 was a great achievement. Even in the Victorian era where adolescence was not a concept yet the idea of childhood ending was more about being in the workforce than anything else.

I'm sorry but until the onset on puberty (note the menstrual cycle can occur before puberty in some girls) I don't really see how a girl could become a woman.
Is that a purely modern Western definition? Sure but I think it's one the healthiest seeing as how even teenage pregnancies come with higher health risks than "adult" pregnancies for a start, never mind preteens who just started bleeding.
Then you have brain development and emotional and mental development.

I strongly disagree with child marriage no matter what culture it's in, including my own. Thank gods my parents were not very traditional.