Islam fights free speech

[Rival]

I don't think I've heard of this before. Who are you talking about?

His imaginary friend.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Yes i am right.You are ignorant of whats in your own books yet we as Muslims are tolerant.We are not asking for the bible to be banned.
Go and study your bible.

 

[icehorse]

First of all
1- The title is total wrong . because it's about individuals NOT religion.
2-I replied maybe in each page of this thread, I quote many of your replies !!
3- you always you used generalizing about individual crimes or
4- I can't satisfy you (your hate to Islam or Muslims), because we always explain to you over and over , but you seems take our "extremists" as respresentation of Muslims.

Hi Godo,

We all use patterns and statistics. As to #4, do you really think I hate Muslims? If so, you're not paying attention.

Now let me ask you this, would you personally feel safe to go out in public, maybe on TV, and declare that you think the fatwa on Salman Rushdie was a mistake and should be removed?

 

[Parsimony]

Yes i am right.You are ignorant of whats in your own books yet we as Muslims are tolerant.We are not asking for the bible to be banned.
Go and study your bible.

I'm a little doubtful that the person you speak of even existed. Even if it is true, it doesn't matter. Marriage to a four or five year old is still deplorable, regardless of who did it. Christians don't consider any Biblical person to be morally perfect anyway (except Jesus, and I know you're not talking about Him), so even if what you said was somehow true, it wouldn't cause any problems. It would still be wrong.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Are you condemning a religious figure for marrying a 5 year old female?

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Yes i am right.You are ignorant of whats in your own books yet we as Muslims are tolerant.We are not asking for the bible to be banned.
Go and study your bible.

Does the Bible make the claim that the prophets in question were exemplars of how humans ought to behave, that true believers ought to emulate their behaviours and that their actions should be viewed as moral even when taken out of contemporary cultural & social contexts? Now I'll be the first to admit it's been some time since I read the Bible but I don't remember anything like that being in it.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

His imaginary friend.

Mr Straw Man.

 

[Godobeyer]

Hi Godo,

We all use patterns and statistics. As to #4, do you really think I hate Muslims? If so, you're not paying attention.

We are paying attention about you for long time ago.

Now let me ask you this, would you personally feel safe to go out in public, maybe on TV, and declare that you think the fatwa on Salman Rushdie was a mistake and should be removed?

I am not Mufti to make fatwas, so I don't know why they think he deserve the death.

If its about he reject Islam or Quran for sure I will feel safe to go out in public and maybe on TV, I will not accept that he will killed,because Allah Him-self let Satanspoke and set him free til Judgement Day.


Now let me ask you this question :
Would you personally feel safe to go out in public and declare that Bin Laden was allie to West to fight Soviet Union , and Muslims are the most victimes of Western internventions in Afghnistan and Iraq and and Somalia and Libya and Syria ?

 

[Rival]

Does the Bible make the claim that the prophets in question were exemplars of how humans ought to behave, that true believers ought to emulate their behaviours and that their actions should be viewed as moral even when taken out of contemporary cultural & social contexts? Now I'll be the first to admit it's been some time since I read the Bible but I don't remember anything like that being in it.

No it doesn't; Muslims, however, believe prophets are sinless of major sins.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Does the Bible make the claim that the prophets in question were exemplars of how humans ought to behave, that true believers ought to emulate their behaviours and that their actions should be viewed as moral even when taken out of contemporary cultural & social contexts? Now I'll be the first to admit it's been some time since I read the Bible but I don't remember anything like that being in it.

"Better is a poor person who walks in his integrity than one who is crooked in speech and is a fool"'

 

[faroukfarouk]

Mr Straw Man.

“So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets".

 

[faroukfarouk]

Next time don't read the bible....study the bible.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

No .. YOU are missing the point!

Since I'm the one who made the point in the first place I don't see how I can be missing it.

You are thinking "in a box"

... coming from the guy whose morality is stuck firmly 1400 years in the past and sees no reason for it to change.

.. you are assuming that modern secular morality is "spot-on"

No, actually, I don't. While I think 'secular morality' addresses many more issues in the right way (i.e. least harmful way) than Islamic morality, there is definitely room for improvement. Needless to say, moral outlooks that change and adapt to accommodate increasing knowledge & understandings of the world will prove to be more informed and useful than those which do not.

..even your forefathers would have had different morality than you have..

So? Are you implying that moral outlooks changing over time is a bad thing?

Those people who do not judge by what Almighty God has revealed are not fit to make moral judgements .. they might think that they are.

In other words: Muslims are, by dint of being Muslims, more moral than non-Muslims because of where they derive their morality from. Ergo they are more qualified than we are to make moral judgements.

The very notion that a system of morality & ethics stuck 1400 years in the past, and based on the inferior level of knowledge about many things prevalent at the time, is better informed and more enlightened than what we think today is laughable.

This shows the lie that Islam can be a tolerant religion; that it can accept outside viewpoints existing other than its own and can allow them to propagate. After all, why listen to anyone else when your way is clearly the most moral?

Did Muhammad, peace be with him, commit adultery? No

Right, because an adult ****ing a child is only immoral if they commit adultery doing it. See, this is exactly why your claims that Islamic morality is superior are laughable.

Did he force unwanted attentions on his wife? No

Does Sahih Bukhari or Muslim mention Aisha expressing her consent to the marriage or to sex with Muhammad?

Did he consumate his marriage while she had no sexual urges ie. before puberty? No

And your evidence that Aisha had started going through puberty (which is the process by which a child's body begins to develop into that of an adult) by the time Muhammad had sex with her would be..?

Oh, and even if she had started puberty, that doesn't make it any less a case of child molestation than if she had not. Like I said, puberty is a gradual process and physiologically speaking, Aisha would still have been a child at the onset of puberty.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

"Better is a poor person who walks in his integrity than one who is crooked in speech and is a fool"'

I'll take that as a 'no'.

 

[Notanumber]

It has been said that ISIS are very good at using information technology to recruit supporters, but that same technology is a very good tool for helping Islamists to see the folly of their faith.

There is plenty of reading matter here

http://answeringislam.org/Authors/Wood/index.htm

According to this video, some are leaving Islam even though they know the penalty.

 

[icehorse]

We are paying attention about you for long time ago.

Well that doesn't sound at all threatening.

Now let me ask you this question :
Would you personally feel safe to go out in public and declare that Bin Laden was allie to West to fight Soviet Union , and Muslims are the most victimes of Western internventions in Afghnistan and Iraq and and Somalia and Libya and Syria ?

Next, are you really comparing a novelist to a terrorist?

 

[McBell]

Did Muhammad, peace be with him, commit adultery? No

Bold empty claim

Did he force unwanted attentions on his wife? No

Bold empty claim

Did he consumate his marriage while she had no sexual urges ie. before puberty? No

Bold empty claim

Now .. on yer bike mister!

awful cocky for someone who makes nothing but bold empty claims.

 

[McBell]

Its funny how people of the book (bible followers....new and old) speak ill about our Prophets(PBBUH) marriage to an 9 year old when in fact their own bible confirms a marriage of a female of 4 to 5 year old.
Please go and study your bible and if you cannot find it then you ignorant of its contents.

you will have to provide the book and verse.
Otherwise is nothing but bold empty lies.

Now given your track record thus far here on RF, I suspect it is nothing but bold empty lies on your part.
But please, prove me wrong.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Does Sahih Bukhari or Muslim mention Aisha expressing her consent to the marriage or to sex with Muhammad?

Are you crazy? Why would it?

And your evidence that Aisha had started going through puberty (which is the process by which a child's body begins to develop into that of an adult) by the time Muhammad had sex with her would be..?

What utter nonsense! You don't even believe Quran and hadith .. why would I need evidence to know that Muhammad, peace be with him, would not act appropriately? YOU are the one that needs evidence to prove that he didn't.

Oh, and even if she had started puberty, that doesn't make it any less a case of child molestation than if she had not. Like I said, puberty is a gradual process and physiologically speaking, Aisha would still have been a child at the onset of puberty.

More rubbish! Your claim that prophet Muhammad is a barbarian is quite laughable .. you only serve to fool yourself. I think it's more of a case that you despise the truth, and wish to paint it as evil. You cannot prove that Aisha was not a willing bride, and in fact there is much material to prove the exact opposite.
Your idea of young women that have interest in sex should be discouraged "for their own good" is poppycock

 

[Parsimony]

Are you condemning a religious figure for marrying a 5 year old female?

If you are talking about an actual religious figure, then yes. Yes I am. You, however, have yet to establish that such a person even existed. Do you think of Mohammed as sinless? The Biblical prophets aren't sinless. A nine year old isn't remotely ready for the responsibilities of adulthood. Would you expect a nine year old to own a house, raise children, get a job, drive a car, pay bills and all the other things expected of an adult? If not, then how could they possibly be prepared for something as life-changing as marriage or sexual intercourse? There's not even any guarantee that a girl will have started undergoing puberty at the age of nine.