Islam fights free speech

[icehorse]

Yes some percentage of Western choose violent when second amendment OF US constitution , clear about right to defend by guns !!

Freedom of speech is bull**** when it's about provocation in West,I prove it.

I tag you but you skip it

Godo, I agree that there are many problems in the world. That doesn't forgive any individual problem. If you want to start a discussion on the 2nd amendment, that would be valid, there is criticism to be made there. But it has nothing to do with Muslims trying to limit free speech.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Its more than fourteen hundered years now and we are all happy with our way of life.
We don't want to change so why push us.
Note what you see in your vision as modern we in our vision see it as backwards.
Basically every step you take forward you are leading to the destruction of mother earth.
So much for modernity.

 

[icehorse]

Maybe you should go and try it in front of a Muslim and let me know what happened.

I read a threat in this post. Is this how Muslims want to be known?

 

[icehorse]

We in Islam are not like Christians.Our religion is from God Almighty.We respect all our Prophets be it Muhammad or Jesus(peace and blessings be upon them both).we take our religion very seriously.Any attack on our Prophets is a personal attack on our religion.
Those books on your OP is nothing more than hatred for our way of life.
If you happy with your modern human rights way of life then its good for you.we not objecting to your way of life.You have freedom to practice it.
You with your way of life we with our way of life.
Please go and read those filthy books then you will understand my point of view.

Hi farouk,

What alternative do you suggest? Do you know a person you think is wise enough to decide which books you can read, and which books you cannot see? I have never heard of a person - at any time in history - who I would trust to tell me what I'm not allowed to read.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

I never said deserve or believe in it.
my point : If you fire up the world around , expect some flames or smoke .

I understand this, thanks for clarifying.

Now you get me !
Do you agree even in West ?

Do I agree with you on what?

To argue over whether or not free speech has limits is to miss the point. What matters is whether limits placed on otherwise completely unhindered speech are reasonable. Outlawing speech that belittles, mocks, criticises or even just challenges religious norms is not a reasonable restriction on speech because to do so is not inherently destructive nor does it cause harm. While Western countries do often have some restrictions on defaming religion in place but those are because of historical occurrences - nor do they extend to critiquing or challenging religion (as opposed to mocking it). Unfortunately, there are Islamic apologists out there who want to muddy the waters. The American think tank Demos has recently come under fire for conflating genuine racism & bigotry with criticism of Islam while collating data on instances of 'Islamophobia'.

We dont want respect from those who disbelieve in Allah swt.

Oh, but you do. Muslims crave respect from non-Muslims badly. In fact it's not enough to say you crave respect; you demand it! Why else do Muslims react so violently when we mock your 'prophet'? Why is it that Asia Bibi is being sentenced to death for 'blasphemy' in Pakistan? Why is it the offices & staff of both Charlie Hebdo and Jyllands-Posten were attacked by barbarians who were pissed off because they depicted Muhammad in a less than sacred nature - despite the fact that Muslims are not allowed to depict him? Why is it people across the Muslim world rioted in both cases? Why is it that North African Muslims attacked a photographer on a French beach with harpoons & hatchets because he was hoping to take pictures of Muslim women? Why is there a continuing & organised effort on behalf of the Organisation for Islamic Cooperation to introduce a blasphemy bill outlawing criticism of Islam across the globe? Why is there a global campaign to silence (through both lethal & non-lethal means) ex-Muslims who wish to talk about things they see as problems? Why is there a global effort to have criticism, challenges or even mockery of Islam conflated with racism or 'Islamophobia'?

Respect for you equates to not questioning, not challenging, not criticising your religion.

Just leave us alone, we leave u alone.

Who are you trying to kid? Hatred for the West is so deeply embedded into the psyche of so many Muslims it'd take centuries for it to dissipate.

 

[Laika]

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. This post is fricken hilarious, @Laika

You make it sound like you knowledgeable about Islam, LOL. So are we now to address you as an expert of the wide range of schools is Islamic Jurisprudence?

What is it about those on the very far left being supportive of an arch-conservative authoritarian supremacist religion like Islam? It's almost breath-taking.

I practically fell off my chair laughing over this tidbit "Not once have you specified ANY causal relationship between Islam and human rights abuses that would validate your criticism." The examples are legion... how many would you like? How far back in history do you want Icehorsey to go? Your slightly hysterical comment underscores a deep misunderstanding and ignorance of the systemic abuses in the Muslim world throughout history and is almost laughable.

Then there was this goodie, "You haven't quoted the scripture in the Quran and the Hadith as a source of religious authority or defined whether all Muslims conceive of that authority as the same or how much scope of interpretation there is." which blithely ignores IceHorses continual bleating about the now famous (and quite disturbing) PEW Research Survey of the Muslim world. I can think of no other poster on RF who has relied on that survey more than @icehorse

Likewise, your suggestion to place questions in the Islamic foxhole wherein rebuttal is considerably muted is ludicrous. I guess it's a good idea if you want a white-washed version of events, sure. Go for it. But in the DIR's you CANNOT argue a given point. If you don't believe me - try it and prove me wrong.

How politically correct of you to self-censor so as not to hurt someone else's feelings at the risk of violating a few rules by saying something unpopular?

Its adorable to watch you conform. Given you're so well house trained, come the revolution I'll make you wear a collar and take you for walkies.

http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/islam-secularism-and-human-rights-muslims-only.190648/

 

[YmirGF]

How politically correct of you to self-censor so as not to hurt someone else's feelings at the risk of violating a few rules by saying something unpopular?

Its adorable to watch you conform. Given you're so well house trained, come the revolution I'll make you wear a collar and take you for walkies.

http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/islam-secularism-and-human-rights-muslims-only.190648/

I willingly adopt self-censorship all the time simply because the VAST majority of human animals could not withstand my unadulterated thinking. If that is the price to pay to be heard, then so be it. Why is it though that those on the bleeding edge of the left wing are so supportive and protective of the arch-conservative religion of Islam? Is this just part and parcel of the social justice warrior thingy?

 

[Godobeyer]

That's cute, English is my 4th or 5th language.

Two can play that game.

Good for you
Now, I know where your arrogance came from.

That is both wrong. The USA supported the Mujahideen of which the Taliban were no part as they didn't even exist back then and started in Pakistan.
Al-Qaeda meanwhile was founded by Arab volunteers who fought with the Afghan Mujahideen. But that doesn't mean the USA supported Al-Qaeda.

Oh yeah USA supported mujahideen in Afghanistan, but not AlQaeda.
Do you try to fool us?

 

[Quetzal]

Who is Islam?

A wise guy we got here- no wait, just @Smart_Guy

 

[Laika]

I willingly adopt self-censorship all the time simply because the VAST majority of human animals could not withstand my unadulterated thinking. If that is the price to pay to be heard, then so be it. Why is it though that those on the bleeding edge of the left wing are so supportive and protective of the arch-conservative religion of Islam? Is this just part and parcel of the social justice warrior thingy?

Because I suffer the grave misfortune of wanting to believe in people.

 

[YmirGF]

Because I suffer the grave misfortune of wanting to believe in people.

We share that common trait, Laika. Maybe there is yet hope?

 

[Laika]

We share that common trait, Laika. Maybe there is yet hope?

Yes. I hope so.

 

[Rival]

Is anyone else here genuinely concerned as to what's happened to Laika, or is it just me?

 

[YmirGF]

Yes. I hope so.

The thing to remember in your new thread is that very few will give authoritative answers and will be largely their own opinions.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Its more than fourteen hundered years now and we are all happy with our way of life.

Which particular way of life is that?

 

[Flankerl]

We in Islam are not like Christians.Our religion is from God Almighty.We respect all our Prophets be it Muhammad or Jesus(peace and blessings be upon them both).we take our religion very seriously.Any attack on our Prophets is a personal attack on our religion.
Those books on your OP is nothing more than hatred for our way of life.
If you happy with your modern human rights way of life then its good for you.we not objecting to your way of life.You have freedom to practice it.
You with your way of life we with our way of life.
Please go and read those filthy books then you will understand my point of view.

Its rare that I get to post this picture, but you did it. Congratulations.

Good for you
Now, I know where your arrogance came from.

Just because I had to learn more languages due to medical reason doesn't mean I did it because of my arrogance.

Oh yeah USA supported mujahideen in Afghanistan, but not AlQaeda.
Do you try to fool us?

Its not my fault you don't know basic history.
The USA supported the Peshawar Seven. The Taliban didn't belong to them and neither did Al-Qaeda.

The Soviet Adventure in Afghanistan lasted from December 1979 till February 1989.
Al-Qaeda was formed in August 1988.
Sure the US through the ISI most probably supported Mujahideen groups that had future Al-Qaeda members with them. But that doesn't mean that the US supported Al-Qaeda.

And just to be clear: The Taliban did not exist during the Soviet-Afghan War.

 

[Godobeyer]

Do you also believe people who choose to join Islamist terrorist groups or espouse beliefs which support or sympathise with Islamic terrorism should also be blamed or do you think the blame for Islamist terrorism lies solely with the West?

When you make war to others , and your media make atmosphere of war to others , and allow and may encourage people to go fight there ,it's not fair to put whole the blame of others.

Thats what happened in Afghanistan and in 2011 in Syria.

I can agree with the first two, but Libya is a lose-lose situation for the West. We get the blame for Libya being a failed state even though Muslims can't seem to stand the notion of Western nations rebuilding nations they've torn down. On the other hand if we hadn't intervened Gaddafi's army would have engaged in an orgy of slaughter and destruction in Benghazi and Muslims the world over would have pointed the finger at us for standing aside while yet another dictator backed and armed by the West slaughtered his own people when we should have done our best to stop him.

Whatever NATO destoried Libya and make big space of violence and terrorism in north Africa.

Gadafi was too close to win the war against the rebels, so NATO .
Now you blame Libyans ?

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Well this is an interesting line of thought. It seems you want me to take on more than I am, but I'm not quite sure what you're getting at. First off, did you even skim the article in the OP? As I said earlier, the article makes many factual claims. It is not "throwing out accusations", correct?

As far as causal relationships, I'm guilty of taking Muslims at their word. It seems to me that if you don't do that then you're the one guilty of soft bigotry, correct?

As far as quoting scripture? It would seem that you haven't been paying attention. That never works. The scripture means or doesn't mean whatever a Muslims needs it to mean or not mean in the moment. That path is well proven to be a waste of time, correct?

Yes, I do condemn Islam. It is in desperate need of reform.

Given that you accept that there are many different interpretations of scripture/Islam, which particular Islam do you condemn and feel to be in desperate need of reform?

 

[Godobeyer]

Its rare that I get to post this picture, but you did it. Congratulations.

It's not my honor to congrats me .

Just because I had to learn more languages due to medical reason doesn't mean I did it because of my arrogance.

Okey,ah
Now I am confused where your arrogance came from

Its not my fault you don't know basic history.
The USA supported the Peshawar Seven. The Taliban didn't belong to them and neither did Al-Qaeda.

The Soviet Adventure in Afghanistan lasted from December 1979 till February 1989.
Al-Qaeda was formed in August 1988.
Sure the US through the ISI most probably supported Mujahideen groups that had future Al-Qaeda members with them. But that doesn't mean that the US supported Al-Qaeda.

Shame on YOU.
So you stuck in when they label them selfs Al-Qeada !!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...inessman-who-recruited-mujahedin-1465715.html

 

[muhammad_isa]

...
Yes, I do condemn Islam. It is in desperate need of reform.

It's not "Islam" that is in need of reform, imo it's the global financial system that is ruled by the political elite that's spreading 'disease and hatred'