Islam, how much do you really know about it?

[Alla Prima]

you are not here to ask to know about Islam. you are sure you know it. so why do you ask questions?

Why is it you think I will automatically accept your version of Islam. You speak as though your truth (your interpretation of the Koran) is carved in stone. I assure you it isn't. I make up my own mind. I'm not Muslim.

 

[Alla Prima]

it is not about 'my' translation. Qur'an clearly describes who mushrik is.

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Let's assume what you're saying is perfectly correct. The koran is nonetheless denigrating people who have every right to believe what they wish. My original comment stands.

098.006
Those who reject (Truth), among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein (for aye). They are the worst of creatures.

 

[Alla Prima]

islam is about submitting to god
and islam don't denigrate any one

This is utter nonsense. Muhammad himself sold women and children into slavery. It's no wonder Islam denigrates others for their beliefs. Islam is about Islam not people. People take a back seat (second place) to the ideolgy of Islam.

you don't believe that there are a god

I don't believe in Allah nor the Jewish and Christian god. This kind of creator god is not possible.

as you like that is what islam say
but when you are submitted to god you are under his merci ,when you are a non beliver there will be no merci at all for you

I've seen Allah's 'mercy'. I wouldn't want it even if Allah did exist. I have no desire to go to Allah's heaven. I don't like your idea of God nor do I imagine I would like many of the people there.

in quran god say any thing can be forgiven except that
can't you say may be they are right

Not an atom's worth.

you say i don't submit to any god
what will happen if there are one ?
what will you say when you meet him?

What will you do when you find out George Bush is Allah? You see how nonsensical the question is?

you don't care ,it is ok
in quran god didn't assault non belivers of him
god promised them with punishment
that is it

Unbelievers are denigrated in the Koran.

what you see it as assault is just describing and definitions of them because there are many types

Religions love unbelievers. Unbelievers help unite believers and give them someone to oppose and hate.

some don't believe with god at all, some believe but they modified what god sent them,some say we believe but inside themselves they say we are not
some believe with god but they gave god some partners
in quran you can find all that types and promise with punishment
so if you are right and there are no god no thing will happen for believers or non believers because there are no one can gave them a punish or reward
so your discussion here will be with no meaning because we will be equal at the end

I'm not concerned about the end. I'm concern for the suffering of people here in this life and the fact that Islam denigrates people because of their beliefs causes much suffering here on earth.

but if there are god and there are punishment where do you think non believers will be ???????????????????
if it is like that you are jumbling and there are a high risk

I think you mean gambling not 'jumbling'. No I'm not gambling. I'm certain in what I know. I have seen the truth and the truth does not include Allah.

 

[.lava]

Why is it you think I will automatically accept your version of Islam. You speak as though your truth (your interpretation of the Koran) is carved in stone. I assure you it isn't. I make up my own mind. I'm not Muslim.

i do not mind what you believe in or what path you follow. but if you're going to talk about THE BOOK I FOLLOW AND COMMANDS THAT I PRACTICE then hold on there! i would never come over and tell you what your religion or whatever is that you believe says. this is what you're doing. you're telling me what i practice. you can not know what i've been living and what i am taught and above all what Qur'an says better than i do, got it? you keep talking about how Muslims treat this men that men then you prove that you are not even able to show respect to experiences of people who's Muslim. wanna know about Islam then ask! do not act as if i did not learn my religion correctly. stop this arrogant nonsense.

so here i say again; i do not care if you speak out your belief but do not come up and tell me what my religion says. especially since you do not even know how Qur'an describes people, you do not know concepts of original text. even a Muslim cold not understand it in case he did not study it. GOT IT? if it was THAT easy, then all the Muslims would be the same just by reading it once. but it does not work that way. you look down on text of Qur'an. we don't. we give effort to understand it we study it as long as we live. so you think you got it by reading it as if you read some stupid text, that is your problem. then stop asking questions. it is obvious you do not care for our answers.

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[England my lionheart]

This is the thing i find horrible,you either believe or burn in hell,i don't believe a loving God would do this,none of the Abrahmic religions make sense to me,in fact i believe that religion has more to do with Man than God.
In the rain forest somewhere,a tribe has been discovered that nobody had seen before(you may have seen it on the news)now these people know nothing of Christianity or Islam,Buddism etc so if the end time happened now they would go straight to hell which is another reason it makes no sense other than Men manipulating other Men through religion/belief.
The other thing is i have already seen the ambiguoty of religious books and especially in this thread and Islam is like Christianity and Judaism,it has many arms and isn't simply one.

 

[Alla Prima]

i do not mind what you believe in or what path you follow. but if you're going to talk about THE BOOK I FOLLOW AND COMMANDS THAT I PRACTICE then hold on there! i would never come over and tell you what your religion or whatever is that you believe says. this is what you're doing. you're telling me what i practice. you can not know what i've been living and what i am taught and above all what Qur'an says better than i do, got it? you keep talking about how Muslims treat this men that men then you prove that you are not even able to show respect to experiences of people who's Muslim. wanna know about Islam then ask! do not act as if i did not learn my religion correctly. stop this arrogant nonsense.

so here i say again; i do not care if you speak out your belief but do not come up and tell me what my religion says. especially since you do not even know how Qur'an describes people, you do not know concepts of original text. even a Muslim cold not understand it in case he did not study it. GOT IT? if it was THAT easy, then all the Muslims would be the same just by reading it once. but it does not work that way. you look down on text of Qur'an. we don't. we give effort to understand it we study it as long as we live. so you think you got it by reading it as if you read some stupid text, that is your problem. then stop asking questions. it is obvious you do not care for our answers.

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Please list your criticisms of the Koran? Thank you.

 

[.lava]

This is the thing i find horrible,you either believe or burn in hell,i don't believe a loving God would do this,none of the Abrahmic religions make sense to me,in fact i believe that religion has more to do with Man than God.
In the rain forest somewhere,a tribe has been discovered that nobody had seen before(you may have seen it on the news)now these people know nothing of Christianity or Islam,Buddism etc so if the end time happened now they would go straight to hell which is another reason it makes no sense other than Men manipulating other Men through religion/belief.
The other thing is i have already seen the ambiguoty of religious books and especially in this thread and Islam is like Christianity and Judaism,it has many arms and isn't simply one.

Abraham (PBUH) did not know anyone to teach him, he did not know the name of Allah, he did not know religion at all. but he thought of a creator and he wished to reach God. any human being in this world, even if he did not hear the name of religion would think about where he came from. any human being with or without knowledge of religion have a chance to make a wish to reach God. this is what makes people earn heaven.

how many times did you hear the names like hell and heaven? when this world ends, if you realize that you earn hell would you be able to say 'i did not know about it' or 'i was not warned about it'? God would not send anyone to hell with pleasure. God does not want anyone to earn hell therefor there are holy books that warn people about after life. if we were not warned and informed about after life, then, of course, that would be very cruel. but you see, even though we do not believe in after life, we do not have chance to say we did not know.

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[.lava]

Please list your criticisms of the Koran? Thank you.

what are you talking about now your majesty mystery?

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[Alla Prima]

I knew it! 9/11 was a direct violation of the Qur'an!

Well not really. Muslims are encouraged to jihad when Islam is under attack and the justifications for attack are (for Muslims) numerous.

 

[Alla Prima]

what are you talking about now your majesty mystery?

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Do you criticize Islam or not?

 

[.lava]

Do you criticize Islam or not?

i criticize my ego, there is not other to criticize.

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[England my lionheart]

Abraham (PBUH) did not know anyone to teach him, he did not know the name of Allah, he did not know religion at all. but he thought of a creator and he wished to reach God. any human being in this world, even if he did not hear the name of religion would think about where he came from. any human being with or without knowledge of religion have a chance to make a wish to reach God. this is what makes people earn heaven.

how many times did you hear the names like hell and heaven? when this world ends, if you realize that you earn hell would you be able to say 'i did not know about it' or 'i was not warned about it'? God would not send anyone to hell with pleasure. God does not want anyone to earn hell therefor there are holy books that warn people about after life. if we were not warned and informed about after life, then, of course, that would be very cruel. but you see, even though we do not believe in after life, we do not have chance to say we did not know.

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I am not saying there is no afterlife or there is,i could not answer that with certainty although i hope there is.
My first problem with grasping any religion is this,there were people on this Earth before Abraham who knew nothing of any of this,lets take for example the people who lived in caves thousands of years ago,now in many of those caves are paintings(obviously they could'nt write back then) in the paintings there is no reference to a supreme being there are only Humans and animals and Men dressed with Deer antlers.
The other thing and probably the biggest is Evolution which has more tangible evidence than any religion.
I am glad for you that you get comfort from your beliefs and i enjoy your posts but these are some of the things i cannot understand.

 

[.lava]

I am not saying there is no afterlife or there is,i could not answer that with certainty although i hope there is.
My first problem with grasping any religion is this,there were people on this Earth before Abraham who knew nothing of any of this,lets take for example the people who lived in caves thousands of years ago,now in many of those caves are paintings(obviously they could'nt write back then) in the paintings there is no reference to a supreme being there are only Humans and animals and Men dressed with Deer antlers.
The other thing and probably the biggest is Evolution which has more tangible evidence than any religion.
I am glad for you that you get comfort from your beliefs and i enjoy your posts but these are some of the things i cannot understand.

hmm...as we know it first man, Adam (PBUH) was a farmer, not a caveman. cavemen occurred in history only after big civilizations were destroyed. they were people who survived from the end of civilizations who had high tech.

i do not understand everything either i could not be religious if this knowledge did not match with my experiences. imo personal experience is very important. ahh evolution...we all evolve but not physically. if Darwin was a faithful man, his interpretation of creation would have been different. but he did not have faith. he was, imo, racist.

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[Alla Prima]

i criticize my ego, there is not other to criticize.

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i do not mind what you believe in or what path you follow. but if you're going to talk about THE BOOK I FOLLOW AND COMMANDS THAT I PRACTICE then hold on there! i would never come over and tell you what your religion or whatever is that you believe says. this is what you're doing. you're telling me what i practice. you can not know what i've been living and what i am taught and above all what Qur'an says better than i do, got it? you keep talking about how Muslims treat this men that men then you prove that you are not even able to show respect to experiences of people who's Muslim. wanna know about Islam then ask! do not act as if i did not learn my religion correctly. stop this arrogant nonsense.

so here i say again; i do not care if you speak out your belief but do not come up and tell me what my religion says. especially since you do not even know how Qur'an describes people, you do not know concepts of original text. even a Muslim cold not understand it in case he did not study it. GOT IT? if it was THAT easy, then all the Muslims would be the same just by reading it once. but it does not work that way. you look down on text of Qur'an. we don't. we give effort to understand it we study it as long as we live. so you think you got it by reading it as if you read some stupid text, that is your problem. then stop asking questions. it is obvious you do not care for our answers.

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First of all you may not come and tell me what my religion says but Islam does. Islam tells me that my religion is wrong and that Allah is God over all peoples whether I believe it or not. It even tells me I was born Muslim that we are all Muslim. It is Islam that is arrogant not I.

Currently there is terrorism happening around the world done in the name of Allah. Not Buddha or Jesus or Zeus but Allah. We in the free world have every right to question the ideology that inspires these people. It is our duty to understand what drives these Muslims to murder innocent people. This means we must criticize Islam. That you will not or cannot criticize Islam is clear so anything you say about Islam is immediately suspect. This is not an instance of disrespect to you but one of common sense. If we are to get to the truth of Islam we cannot look for it in Muslims who cannot or will not be critical of it. They are far too biased. This is why I'm more interested in what ex-Muslims (apostates) say than I am of what Muslims say.

 

[challupa]

hmm...as we know it first man, Adam (PBUH) was a farmer, not a caveman. cavemen occurred in history only after big civilizations were destroyed. they were people who survived from the end of civilizations who had high tech.

i do not understand everything either i could not be religious if this knowledge did not match with my experiences. imo personal experience is very important. ahh evolution...we all evolve but not physically. if Darwin was a faithful man, his interpretation of creation would have been different. but he did not have faith. he was, imo, racist.

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What are you saying lava? Are you saying that humanity has devolved instead of evolved?

 

[GURSIKH]

, Sufism we know is not the same Sufism i see in India.
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hey Lava , which type of Sufism you know in Turkey ??

those who left practices of Islam and called themselves enlightened Sufis, unfortunately fooled themselves.

:slap: this is disrespect

 

[Luminous]

hmm...as we know it first man, Adam (PBUH) was a farmer, not a caveman. cavemen occurred in history only after big civilizations were destroyed. they were people who survived from the end of civilizations who had high tech.

i do not understand everything either i could not be religious if this knowledge did not match with my experiences. imo personal experience is very important. ahh evolution...we all evolve but not physically. if Darwin was a faithful man, his interpretation of creation would have been different. but he did not have faith. he was, imo, racist.

.

You should speak of that story as if it were true. if we have fossils of dinos; we should have them of homo sapians sapians (humans).
what about my personal experience . is it worthless? Darwin was a God fearing christian. mental evolution is physical evolution and spiritual evolution is unlikely and unproven. We haven't gotten "smarter" that is true. but now we have more knowledge than before. some say that neanderthal was dummed than homo sapian and that species was a brother species of ours.

 

[challupa]

This is the thing i find horrible,you either believe or burn in hell,i don't believe a loving God would do this,none of the Abrahmic religions make sense to me,in fact i believe that religion has more to do with Man than God.
In the rain forest somewhere,a tribe has been discovered that nobody had seen before(you may have seen it on the news)now these people know nothing of Christianity or Islam,Buddism etc so if the end time happened now they would go straight to hell which is another reason it makes no sense other than Men manipulating other Men through religion/belief.
The other thing is i have already seen the ambiguoty of religious books and especially in this thread and Islam is like Christianity and Judaism,it has many arms and isn't simply one.

These are the things that I cannot understand either. I do not understand how an all powerful, all merciful, all knowing God would have any set ideology that would set his creation up for an eternity of torment. It makes no sense to me. It is not all loving imo. I believe it was Storm on another thread that said something like this: I cannot worship a God that has a lower moral code then mine. And that is how I see it. If I could not do that to another human, nor wish eternal damnation on another human, how could a God who is supposed to be far above me in purity? That is why I cannot accept the belief in hell and tend to believe it must be man made and being used as a threat by religious leaders to bring the masses under control by fear of an eternity of suffering. No offense meant by this to anyone that does believe in hell by the way, this is just my belief and struggle to understand such teachings.:yes:

 

[Luminous]

First of all you may not come and tell me what my religion says but Islam does. Islam tells me that my religion is wrong and that Allah is God over all peoples whether I believe it or not. It even tells me I was born Muslim that we are all Muslim. It is Islam that is arrogant not I.

Currently there is terrorism happening around the world done in the name of Allah. Not Buddha or Jesus or Zeus but Allah. We in the free world have every right to question the ideology that inspires these people. It is our duty to understand what drives these Muslims to murder innocent people. This means we must criticize Islam. That you will not or cannot criticize Islam is clear so anything you say about Islam is immediately suspect. This is not an instance of disrespect to you but one of common sense. If we are to get to the truth of Islam we cannot look for it in Muslims who cannot or will not be critical of it. They are far too biased. This is why I'm more interested in what ex-Muslims (apostates) say than I am of what Muslims say.

There is terrorism done in the name of catholism and hinduism. some deem bush as a terrorist from christianity. when one does not question the path they take, then they go where that path leads; be it a heaven or hell. that is the risk you take with unquestioning ignorance.

 

[England my lionheart]

hmm...as we know it first man, Adam (PBUH) was a farmer, not a caveman. cavemen occurred in history only after big civilizations were destroyed. they were people who survived from the end of civilizations who had high tech.

i do not understand everything either i could not be religious if this knowledge did not match with my experiences. imo personal experience is very important. ahh evolution...we all evolve but not physically. if Darwin was a faithful man, his interpretation of creation would have been different. but he did not have faith. he was, imo, racist.

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There is no evidence of any advanced civilisation with any technology prior to the Palaeolithic age,nothing and as for Darwin he was an upright virtuous man who was searching for answers which anyone must admit has much evidence to the extent that its not really argued against except by guess who.