Islam, how much do you really know about it?

[Luminous]

These are the things that I cannot understand either. I do not understand how an all powerful, all merciful, all knowing God would have any set ideology that would set his creation up for an eternity of torment. It makes no sense to me. It is not all loving imo. I believe it was Storm on another thread that said something like this: I cannot worship a God that has a lower moral code then mine. And that is how I see it. If I could not do that to another human, nor wish eternal damnation on another human, how could a God who is supposed to be far above me in purity? That is why I cannot accept the belief in hell and tend to believe it must be man made and being used as a threat by religious leaders to bring the masses under control by fear of an eternity of suffering. No offense meant by this to anyone that does believe in hell by the way, this is just my belief and struggle to understand such teachings.:yes:

:sarcastic: you have a big ego. God is just the way 'He' is. like Zues was the way he was.

But seriously: it is true. if God is so powerful and loving why doesn't 'he' protect us from ourselves?

 

[England my lionheart]

These are the things that I cannot understand either. I do not understand how an all powerful, all merciful, all knowing God would have any set ideology that would set his creation up for an eternity of torment. It makes no sense to me. It is not all loving imo. I believe it was Storm on another thread that said something like this: I cannot worship a God that has a lower moral code then mine. And that is how I see it. If I could not do that to another human, nor wish eternal damnation on another human, how could a God who is supposed to be far above me in purity? That is why I cannot accept the belief in hell and tend to believe it must be man made and being used as a threat by religious leaders to bring the masses under control by fear of an eternity of suffering. No offense meant by this to anyone that does believe in hell by the way, this is just my belief and struggle to understand such teachings.:yes:

I really try to understand but it only ties my head in knots,hi Tech civilisations before the stoneage,hell,misery and suffering in torment,i cannot see a lot of love here only a kind of spitual bullying,i do not mean to offend anyone but thats my opinion

 

[challupa]

There is no evidence of any advanced civilisation with any technology prior to the Palaeolithic age,nothing and as for Darwin he was an upright virtuous man who was searching for answers which anyone must admit has much evidence to the extent that its not really argued against except by guess who.

Actually Darwin was very concerned about his findings, so much so that he didn't want his finding published until after this death. He was a christian and his wife was quite devout. His hand was forced though in 1858 when Alfred Russell Wallace sent him a similar paper he had done about his research into the same subject. This paper by Wallace forced Darwin to present his findings at the same time at the Linnean Society of London. If Darwin hadn't presented his findings at the same time the Origin of the Species would have been credited to Wallace. So you see, it wasn't just a "shot in the dark" by one person.

 

[challupa]

:sarcastic: you have a big ego. God is just the way 'He' is. like Zues was the way he was.

But seriously: it is true. i've God is so powerful and loving why doesn't 'he' protect us from ourselves?

Lol I guess it could have been interpreted that way! However, I'm glad no one protects us from ourselves. If religions God had his way, we'd never have any fun.

No I believe free will was genuinely our right and not one we will be punished for if we use it.

 

[Alla Prima]

There is terrorism done in the name of catholism and hinduism. some deem bush as a terrorist from christianity. when one does not question the path they take, then they go where that path leads; be it a heaven or hell. that is the risk you take with unquestioning ignorance.

The difference is Islam sanctions and rewards violent Jihad. Christianity doesn't. Bush isn't a terrorist but if you want to make that claim you can but you cannot claim he's a terrorist for Jesus because Jesus did not condone violent Jihad.

There is far more Muslim terrorism around the world today than any other terrorism.

 

[Alla Prima]

hmm...as we know it first man, Adam (PBUH) was a farmer, not a caveman. cavemen occurred in history only after big civilizations were destroyed. they were people who survived from the end of civilizations who had high tech.

i do not understand everything either i could not be religious if this knowledge did not match with my experiences. imo personal experience is very important. ahh evolution...we all evolve but not physically. if Darwin was a faithful man, his interpretation of creation would have been different. but he did not have faith. he was, imo, racist.

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Which we? You mean Islam don't you? According to billions of people Adam was no more the first man than George Bush was.

 

[.lava]

First of all you may not come and tell me what my religion says but Islam does. Islam tells me that my religion is wrong and that Allah is God over all peoples whether I believe it or not. It even tells me I was born Muslim that we are all Muslim. It is Islam that is arrogant not I.

so now, i would start explaining and you would ignore or reject what i would say, right? OK, here we go...

yes, QUr'an clearly says that Islam is the only religion before God.

you were born as a Muslim. no, you were not. you were born as Islam. with a clean body, clean blood, sinless and therefor submitted. Islam is not only a religion it is also nature of human. which means, Islam the religion does not prevent people from doing certain things just to see if they obey or not. if there is a command, it is for human, not for Muslims alone. nature of your body is exact same with mine. if eating pork is no good for my body, then it is not good for your body either because we are both in same nature. so, as a baby, we were all the same. we were both in the perfect condition. when we grew up, we start drinking alcohol or commit adultery...etc. as a baby, you do nothing against your nature.

Currently there is terrorism happening around the world done in the name of Allah. Not Buddha or Jesus or Zeus but Allah.

let me guess, after reflecting back that blue light of full moon from your shinny eyes, you took a trip to Uranus and you did not hear Mr. Bush saying crusade has started and he was given duty by God, then invade Iraq and caused 1.5 million dead.

We in the free world have every right to question the ideology that inspires these people.

well, we call it fascism. what do call it?

It is our duty to understand what drives these Muslims to murder innocent people. This means we must criticize Islam.

and maybe you should also wonder why a billion of Muslims don't do the same.

That you will not or cannot criticize Islam is clear so anything you say about Islam is immediately suspect.

yes, because i follow Qur'an too and i was commanded to love people who hate me. i am working on it. you're ignoring the most powerful motive in men. it is not Islam, it is ego. unfortunately, you suspect peace makers. well done.

This is not an instance of disrespect to you but one of common sense. If we are to get to the truth of Islam we cannot look for it in Muslims who cannot or will not be critical of it. They are far too biased. This is why I'm more interested in what ex-Muslims (apostates) say than I am of what Muslims say.

OK then, go learn Islam from those who hates Islam. history repeats, so are you.

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[.lava]

You should speak of that story as if it were true. if we have fossils of dinos; we should have them of homo sapians sapians (humans).
what about my personal experience . is it worthless? Darwin was a God fearing christian. mental evolution is physical evolution and spiritual evolution is unlikely and unproven. We haven't gotten "smarter" that is true. but now we have more knowledge than before. some say that neanderthal was dummed than homo sapian and that species was a brother species of ours.

you're a precious creature, of course your experiences not worthless. are you playing with me again?

evolution of societies is more about technology, not individual. from my perspective, evolution of individual is internal. we all have egos. some accept ego as himself, some purifies it. in our teachings purifying ego is personal evolution. because from vices of ego, comes out virtues of Spirit.

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[.lava]

The difference is Islam sanctions and rewards violent Jihad. Christianity doesn't. Bush isn't a terrorist but if you want to make that claim you can but you cannot claim he's a terrorist for Jesus because Jesus did not condone violent Jihad.

There is far more Muslim terrorism around the world today than any other terrorism.

self defense and protecting weak is the command of God. you attack Islam by 'pen', then i would defend Islam by using 'pen' not with a sword.

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[.lava]

Which we? You mean Islam don't you? According to billions of people Adam was no more the first man than George Bush was.

by 'we' i mean my teacher and all his students.

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[England my lionheart]

You should speak of that story as if it were true. if we have fossils of dinos; we should have them of homo sapians sapians (humans).
what about my personal experience . is it worthless? Darwin was a God fearing christian. mental evolution is physical evolution and spiritual evolution is unlikely and unproven. We haven't gotten "smarter" that is true. but now we have more knowledge than before. some say that neanderthal was dummed than homo sapian and that species was a brother species of ours.

Neanderthal,how can these people be explained in religion,i suppose its convenient there are'nt any left but never the less they were here.

 

[England my lionheart]

let me guess, after reflecting back that blue light of full moon from your shinny eyes, you took a trip to Uranus and you did not hear Mr. Bush saying crusade has started and he was given duty by God, then invade Iraq and caused 1.5 million dead.

Lava,the Crusades ended hundreds of years ago

 

[.lava]

Lava,the Crusades ended hundreds of years ago

i did not say it, Bush did.

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Harun Yahya - THE FOSSIL RECORD REFUTES EVOLUTION - Download Page

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[challupa]

let me guess, after reflecting back that blue light of full moon from your shinny eyes, you took a trip to Uranus and you did not hear Mr. Bush saying crusade has started and he was given duty by God, then invade Iraq and caused 1.5 million dead.

Lava,the Crusades ended hundreds of years ago

Actually Georgy boy did refer to the war on terrorism as a crusade. Here are a few tidbits of what he has been heard saying:

"President Bush said to all of us: 'I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, "George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan." And I did, and then God would tell me, "George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq ..." And I did. And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, "Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East." And by God I'm gonna do it.'

"After the trauma of September 11, President Bush breathed new life into this centuries-old imperial theology. The World Trade Center catastrophe revived religious vocabularies of superiority with increased vigor. Bush, who considers Jesus the philosopher who most influenced him, issued a "crusade" against the perpetrators. Advisers worried that talk of a crusade was too inflammatory, but they did not forsake religious metaphors. If September 11 did not constitute a crusade, it did ignite a "monumental struggle of good versus evil," and "good will prevail," the President informed us. Within hours of the attack, Bush instantly surmised that an epic conflict commenced. Here Bush mimics an Old Testament prophet, conjuring up the dichotomy of "us" versus "them" alongside the assumption that the United States is all that is good in the world. Equally revealing is Bush's emphasis on an Armageddon-like battle, a "monumental struggle" against "evildoers." George W. Bush is the quintessence of the crusader motif."

So you see once again the mindset can be resurrected in any time.

 

[England my lionheart]

i did not say it, Bush did.

Harun Yahya - DARWINISTS MISREPRESENTATIONS ABOUT HUMAN GENOME PROJECT - Download Page

Harun Yahya - THE FOSSIL RECORD REFUTES EVOLUTION - Download Page

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I'm sorry Lava,this Man also wrote "the Hollocaust lie" and i cannot take him seriously.

 

[England my lionheart]

Actually Georgy boy did refer to the war on terrorism as a crusade. Here are a few tidbits of what he has been heard saying:

"President Bush said to all of us: 'I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, "George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan." And I did, and then God would tell me, "George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq ..." And I did. And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, "Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East." And by God I'm gonna do it.'

"After the trauma of September 11, President Bush breathed new life into this centuries-old imperial theology. The World Trade Center catastrophe revived religious vocabularies of superiority with increased vigor. Bush, who considers Jesus the philosopher who most influenced him, issued a "crusade" against the perpetrators. Advisers worried that talk of a crusade was too inflammatory, but they did not forsake religious metaphors. If September 11 did not constitute a crusade, it did ignite a "monumental struggle of good versus evil," and "good will prevail," the President informed us. Within hours of the attack, Bush instantly surmised that an epic conflict commenced. Here Bush mimics an Old Testament prophet, conjuring up the dichotomy of "us" versus "them" alongside the assumption that the United States is all that is good in the world. Equally revealing is Bush's emphasis on an Armageddon-like battle, a "monumental struggle" against "evildoers." George W. Bush is the quintessence of the crusader motif."

So you see once again the mindset can be resurrected in any time.

Bush was on prosac or looked like he was,my MP has a Crusade against street litter but is unlikely to invade the Holy land LOL,but yes,the Crusades are well remembered in the middle east and i can see how they would be twitchy about hearing that.

 

[challupa]

Bush was on prosac or looked like he was,my MP has a Crusade against street litter but is unlikely to invade the Holy land LOL,but yes,the Crusades are well remembered in the middle east and i can see how they would be twitchy about hearing that.

Yes so can I. Heck it made me twitchy and I wasn't the target!!

 

[Alla Prima]

so now, i would start explaining and you would ignore or reject what i would say, right? OK, here we go...

Just because you explain doesn't mean I will agree. I'm not a Muslim.

yes, QUr'an clearly says that Islam is the only religion before God.

Arrogance.

you were born as a Muslim. no, you were not. you were born as Islam. with a clean body, clean blood, sinless and therefor submitted. Islam is not only a religion it is also nature of human. which means, Islam the religion does not prevent people from doing certain things just to see if they obey or not. if there is a command, it is for human, not for Muslims alone. nature of your body is exact same with mine. if eating pork is no good for my body, then it is not good for your body either because we are both in same nature. so, as a baby, we were all the same. we were both in the perfect condition. when we grew up, we start drinking alcohol or commit adultery...etc. as a baby, you do nothing against your nature.

Babies are not in perfect condition. They come with all the delusions adults have. They're just underdeveloped.

let me guess, after reflecting back that blue light of full moon from your shinny eyes, you took a trip to Uranus and you did not hear Mr. Bush saying crusade has started and he was given duty by God, then invade Iraq and caused 1.5 million dead.

The difference is Christianity doesn't sanction and reward violent Jihad.

well, we call it fascism. what do call it?

Islam

and maybe you should also wonder why a billion of Muslims don't do the same.

You mean like why doesn't the New York City police department concern itself with all the non-criminals in the city?

yes, because i follow Qur'an too and i was commanded to love people who hate me. i am working on it. you're ignoring the most powerful motive in men. it is not Islam, it is ego. unfortunately, you suspect peace makers. well done.

I don't hate you and you're wrong about the ego too. The most powerful motive is compassion. Not even hate can stand up to it.

OK then, go learn Islam from those who hates Islam. history repeats, so are you.

Not all apostates hate Islam. I think you'd like to think that but it isn't true. Most I've spoken to are very caring people who simply reject the teachings of Muhammad.

 

[.lava]

Quote:
well, we call it fascism. what do call it?

Islam

first of all nobody abandons what they love..secondly, if Islam was equal fascism in your mind, i feel sorry for you and anyone who believes you, you are not the ones who could bring peace to this world. i, as a Muslim, instead of living for thousands of years as a non Muslim, i rather breath for ten seconds more as a Muslim and die.

i think we're done here.

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[Alla Prima]

i think we're done here.

You mean you're done. I'm not.