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Islam is a false religion per Quran itself.

KWED

Scratching head, scratching knee
no name of any mountain is in quran. speculation only.
As we have already established that you haven't read the Quran, not sure why you think your claims about its contents will be taken seriously.
Sura 11:44 states that the ark came to rest on Mount Judi.
Just in case you were still in doubt, Ibn Kathir explains in his renowned tafsir..."Judi is a mountain in Al-Jazirah where the mountains sought to tower above each other on the day of the drowning". And,
"According to the Qur'an, the Ark rested upon Mount Judi, which is situated to the North-east of Jazirah Ibn 'Umar in Kurdistan" - Tafsir Ala Maududi
"The ship came to rest upon the mount Al-Judi a mountain in Nisibin in the land of Mosul" - Tafsir Ibn Abbas
"The ship came to rest, upon al-Jūdī, a mountain in Mespotamia" - Tafsir al Jalalayn

quran never says noah floods global.
It is the only logical conclusion from the description of the flood in the Quran.
Your argument is basically that even if a book described a person as being poisoned, shot, hung, stabbed and beheaded, unless it specifically says they were dead, then they did not die.:tearsofjoy:

that would be the work of a barbaric god
Yes it would. I agree

whose reasoning was nephilim raped women on earth ....lol. my my the xxx rated imagination of biblical scribes
You still have nothing but whataboutery, I see. You are unable to defend your own beliefs, only attack the beliefs of others. It must be awful for you, having so little confidence in your own faith[/quote]
 

stanberger

Active Member
As we have already established that you haven't read the Quran, not sure why you think your claims about its contents will be taken seriously.
Sura 11:44 states that the ark came to rest on Mount Judi.
Just in case you were still in doubt, Ibn Kathir explains in his renowned tafsir..."Judi is a mountain in Al-Jazirah where the mountains sought to tower above each other on the day of the drowning". And,
"According to the Qur'an, the Ark rested upon Mount Judi, which is situated to the North-east of Jazirah Ibn 'Umar in Kurdistan" - Tafsir Ala Maududi
"The ship came to rest upon the mount Al-Judi a mountain in Nisibin in the land of Mosul" - Tafsir Ibn Abbas
"The ship came to rest, upon al-Jūdī, a mountain in Mespotamia" - Tafsir al Jalalayn

It is the only logical conclusion from the description of the flood in the Quran.
Your argument is basically that even if a book described a person as being poisoned, shot, hung, stabbed and beheaded, unless it specifically says they were dead, then they did not die.:tearsofjoy:
naw son. thats not what quran says. thats Ibn kathirs guess ....which he is entitled too,....no hierarchy in islam .....science agrees with quran never has there been a worldwide flood. bible writers got it wrong
Yes it would. I agree


You still have nothing but whataboutery, I see. You are unable to defend your own beliefs, only attack the beliefs of others. It must be awful for you, having so little confidence in your own faith
[/QUOTE]
 

stanberger

Active Member
science agrees with quran. noah flood was regional. never has there been a worldwide flood. bible writers once again got it wrong
 

stanberger

Active Member
As we have already established that you haven't read the Quran, not sure why you think your claims about its contents will be taken seriously.
Sura 11:44 states that the ark came to rest on Mount Judi.
Just in case you were still in doubt, Ibn Kathir explains in his renowned tafsir..."Judi is a mountain in Al-Jazirah where the mountains sought to tower above each other on the day of the drowning". And,
"According to the Qur'an, the Ark rested upon Mount Judi, which is situated to the North-east of Jazirah Ibn 'Umar in Kurdistan" - Tafsir Ala Maududi
"The ship came to rest upon the mount Al-Judi a mountain in Nisibin in the land of Mosul" - Tafsir Ibn Abbas
"The ship came to rest, upon al-Jūdī, a mountain in Mespotamia" - Tafsir al Jalalayn

It is the only logical conclusion from the description of the flood in the Quran.
Your argument is basically that even if a book described a person as being poisoned, shot, hung, stabbed and beheaded, unless it specifically says they were dead, then they did not die.:tearsofjoy:

Yes it would. I agree


You still have nothing but whataboutery, I see. You are unable to defend your own beliefs, only attack the beliefs of others. It must be awful for you, having so little confidence in your own faith
[/QUOTE]
 

stanberger

Active Member
[/QUOTE]
nowhere in quran does it name the mountain where ark rested ....one man's guess only ....noah flood only affected the people of noah ....thats only fair as they rejected monotheism ...only a brutal god would worship the rest of the world who had not yet received the message science agrees with quran. noah floods regional. and no such thing as nephilim [ fallen rapist angels ]
 

KWED

Scratching head, scratching knee
You need to use the 'Post Reply' button, or people do not know you have replied to their posts.

science agrees with quran. noah flood was regional. never has there been a worldwide flood. bible writers once again got it wrong
As I explained, the Quran clearly implies a global flood. It is wrong (as it is on other matters).

Why do you think the Quran was written by a god rather than men?
 

KWED

Scratching head, scratching knee
nowhere in quran does it name the mountain where ark rested
As you clearly haven't read the Quran, it seems odd for you to make such assertions, so here is the reference, from several different versions...

Sahih International: and the ship came to rest on the [mountain of] Judiyy.
Pickthall: And it (the ship) came to rest upon (the mount) Al-Judi
Yusuf Ali: The Ark rested on Mount Judi
Shakir: and the ark rested on the Judi,
Muhammad Sarwar: TThe Ark came to rest on Mount Judi.
Mohsin Khan: And it (the ship) rested on Mount Judi
Arberry: and the Ark settled on El-Judi,
Amhad Khan: And the ship stopped upon the mount Al-Judi
Maududi: and the Ark settled on Mount Judi

Plus of course, the tafsir that clarify it (if clarification was needed)...
(a "tafsir" is an explanation of the meaning of the verses of the Quran by a reputable scholar. They are considered essential in understanding the Quran)

"Judi is a mountain in Al-Jazirah where the mountains sought to tower above each other on the day of the drowning". - Tafsir Ibn Kathir
"According to the Qur'an, the Ark rested upon Mount Judi, which is situated to the North-east of Jazirah Ibn 'Umar in Kurdistan" - Tafsir Ala Maududi
"The ship came to rest upon the mount Al-Judi a mountain in Nisibin in the land of Mosul" - Tafsir Ibn Abbas
"The ship came to rest, upon al-Jūdī, a mountain in Mespotamia" - Tafsir al Jalalayn

So we can see that it must be describing a global flood, so the Quran is wrong.
Of course, the Quran could be wrong about the ark coming to rest on mount Judi, or about Hoah's son drowning despite being on a mountain.
Either way, the Quran is wrong, and therefore Islam is false. QED.

Now I understand that you can't accept that Islam is wrong, so you will just ignore all this evidence - but you might see the flaws eventually, just as you did with Christianity. ;)
 
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stanberger

Active Member
You need to use the 'Post Reply' button, or people do not know you have replied to their posts.

As I explained, the Quran clearly implies a global flood. It is wrong (as it is on other matters).

Why do you think the Quran was written by a god rather than men?
You need to use the 'Post Reply' button, or people do not know you have replied to their posts.

As I explained, the Quran clearly implies a global flood. It is wrong (as it is on other matters).

Why do you think the Quran was written by a god rather than men?
 

stanberger

Active Member
implying doesn't make it a fact. nowhere in quran is noah flood said to be worldwide ...and the cause according to bible were the nephilim 'fallen rapist angels'. I know quran was from god because Muhammad was rebuked in it ...and things like evolution. Big Bang of creation blastocyst. etc were not discovered for centuries afterward
 

KWED

Scratching head, scratching knee
Use the 'Reply' button, FFS!

implying doesn't make it a fact.
:rolleyes: You don't have to explicitly say something for people to be able to know it is true.
Imply: Indicate the truth or existence of (something) by suggestion rather than explicit reference. Suggest (something) as a logical consequence. (Oxford English Dictionary)

Noah's son drowned despite going up a mountain for safety.
The ark came to rest on a mountain several thousand feet high.
Therefore the flood must have been global for these two facts (they are in the Quran so you must accept them as fact) to be true.

I know quran was from god because Muhammad was rebuked in it
What does that even mean?

...and things like evolution.
The Quran doesn't mention evolution. There are passages that contradict it.
However, as you claim that knowledge of evolution must have come from god, you therefore accept Charles Darwin as a messenger of god.

Big Bang of creation
There is nothing in the Quran that describes the Big Bang.

blastocyst. etc
This confirms that you are merely repeating stuff you have heard or seen from dawahganda sources. You don't understand what a blastocyst is or its relevance here, because the Quran certainly doesn't mention them.

were not discovered for centuries afterward
There is nothing accurate in the Quran that was not already known at the time. People have been lying to you.
 
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KWED

Scratching head, scratching knee
implying doesn't make it a fact.
...and things like evolution. Big Bang of creation blastocyst.
Remember that you just argued that implied or suggested meaning is not enough. You insist that the Quran explicitly say something or it isn't meant.
All your "Quran scientific miracles" require extreme leaps of logic way beyond suggestion and implication. So by your own argument, your claims can be dismissed.

What you need to bear in mind is that these "arguments" and "evidences" you see on your Islamic YouTube channels are aimed at the already converted, or the clinically gullible. They are not meant to be used on educated people with fully functioning critical faculties. We can dismantle them blindfold.
 

stanberger

Active Member
Use the 'Reply' button, FFS!

:rolleyes: You don't have to explicitly say something for people to be able to know it is true.
Imply: Indicate the truth or existence of (something) by suggestion rather than explicit reference. Suggest (something) as a logical consequence. (Oxford English Dictionary)

Noah's son drowned despite going up a mountain for safety.
The ark came to rest on a mountain several thousand feet high.
Therefore the flood must have been global for these two facts (they are in the Quran so you must accept them as fact) to be true.

What does that even mean?

The Quran doesn't mention evolution. There are passages that contradict it.
However, as you claim that knowledge of evolution must have come from god, you therefore accept Charles Darwin as a messenger of god.

There is nothing in the Quran that describes the Big Bang.

This confirms that you are merely repeating stuff you have heard or seen from dawahganda sources. You don't understand what a blastocyst is or its relevance here, because the Quran certainly doesn't mention them.

There is nothing accurate in the Quran that was not already known at the time. People have been lying to you.
 

stanberger

Active Member
sorry mate I gotta go with the scientist that examined the science in quran and confirmed them while they laugh at bible verses claiming 'earth a flat circle. does not move sun orbits the earth. man created from the menses of their mothers like congealed milk. noah floods worldwide due to nephilim. lol
 

KWED

Scratching head, scratching knee
sorry mate I gotta go with the scientist that examined the science in quran and confirmed them
Presumably you are referring to Keith Moore, who was paid by the Saudi government yo produce a version of his book on embryology with "Quranic additions"? The man who was sooo convinced that the Quran was from Allah that he remained a Christian for the rest of his life and later refused to talk about his involvement with the Quran?
Or are you talking about the scientists who were misled, misrepresented and misquoted at a conference about Quran science, who later publicly renounced the claims made about them?
There is no "science" in the Quran that was not already known. This is a proven fact.

'earth a flat circle.
The Quran implies a flat earth "And we spread out the earth like a carpet", and never once mentions it being spherical.

does not move
The Quran implies a geocentric system.

sun orbits the earth.
The Quran states that the sun moves round the earth in an orbit.

man created from the menses of their mothers
Actually, this is more accurate that saying man was moulded from potter's clay, which is what the Quran says.

noah floods worldwide
I have already shown that the Quran necessarily describes a global flood.

Of course, because you are so poorly informed about the Quran, and most other things, you have no idea about any of this. You are incapable of addressing the points I raise and just keep parroting the same disproved nonsense. But don't worry, you aren't the first and won't be the last.
 

stanberger

Active Member
Presumably you are referring to Keith Moore, who was paid by the Saudi government yo produce a version of his book on embryology with "Quranic additions"? The man who was sooo convinced that the Quran was from Allah that he remained a Christian for the rest of his life and later refused to talk about his involvement with the Quran?
Or are you talking about the scientists who were misled, misrepresented and misquoted at a conference about Quran science, who later publicly renounced the claims made about them?
There is no "science" in the Quran that was not already known. This is a proven fact.

The Quran implies a flat earth "And we spread out the earth like a carpet", and never once mentions it being spherical.

The Quran implies a geocentric system.

The Quran states that the sun moves round the earth in an orbit.

Actually, this is more accurate that saying man was moulded from potter's clay, which is what the Quran says.

I have already shown that the Quran necessarily describes a global flood.

Of course, because you are so poorly informed about the Quran, and most other things, you have no idea about any of this. You are incapable of addressing the points I raise and just keep parroting the same disproved nonsense. But don't worry, you aren't the first and won't be the last.
 

stanberger

Active Member
funny you ignored the fact that dr Lawrence brown. dr Gary miller. dr Gary lang that I cited reverted o islam after their research .....its like the christians saying biblical scholar bart erman found evidence of Jesus cruifiction yet refused to stay in christianity ....now agnostic ....quran ' and we spread out the land like a carpet making travel upon its path easy ' thats the full verse. ard can mean [earth or land]...moon surface in comparison is full of cracks and crevices. hard to travel upon its surface. never does quran say sun orbits the earth. that was the belief of bible followers it was the church that arrested Galileo for discovering earth orbits the sun ..... nowhere does quran say a worldwide flood occurred and most certainly never gives the reason as fallen rapist angels [nephilim]...you may want to stay out of hate sites and start all over. start here bible ' earth a flat circle. does not move ' v. quran ' earth spherical moves in orbit ' glad I left church for islam 2002
 

KWED

Scratching head, scratching knee
funny you ignored the fact that dr Lawrence brown. dr Gary miller. dr Gary lang that I cited reverted o islam after their research
When did you mention them? (Remember that if you don't use the 'Reply' button, I don't know that you've posted anything. It's down in the bottom right of every post, labeled 'Reply'.

But anywho, let's examine these cases of "Scientists who converted to Islam after their research".
Dr Lawrence Brown - A person who prayed to god during a personal trauma, promising to devote their life to him if god saved his daughter. His daughter recovered. The consultant explained the medical reason for the recovery but Lawrence "didn't buy it". He read about different religions and arrived at Islam because he thought Muhammad was the "final prophet" referred to in earlier scripture.He says "faith had entered my heart". No mention of the "science" in the Quran. His being a doctor (who aren't really "scientists") was irrelevant.

Dr Gary Miller - In his story he claims he converted from Christianity to Islam partly because the Quran contains no errors. He obviously did no reasrch on the matter because it dos contain errors. The flood never happened. There is no iron and brass wall between two mountain peaks somewhere in Asia Minor. The sun does not move in an orbit with the moon. Bones do not form before flesh in the human embryo, etc...
He also says the Quran contains unexplainable miracles like saying worker bees are female. Firstly, the Quran never says that. Second, Aristotle says that worker bees are female in his book 'The History of Animals' centuries before the Quran was written.
So we can see that Miller's conversion was based on a lack of understanding.

Dr Jeffrey Lang - reading his account there is no mention of science, just that he felt "led" to Islam when he read the Quran.

I am happy to accept that some people convert to Islam for a variety of reasons, and some of them are doctors or scientists - bet the numbers are tiny. It is an extreme rarity. It your claims are true it should be the norm. However, the vast majority of scientists (especially experts) reject it as mere superstition. If you are going to cite a couple of converts, you also have to recognise the millions who don't.

and we spread out the land like a carpet making travel upon its path easy ' thats the full verse. ard can mean [earth or land]
A carpet is always spread out on a flat surface. If the authors of the Quran knew the earth was round, they would have used an analogy that better describes reality.

moon surface in comparison is full of cracks and crevices. hard to travel upon its surface.
No idea what your point is here, but the earth's surface is also covered in natural obstacles - mountains, ravines, valleys, etc. The moon is actually pretty easy to navigate. Just watch the footage of the lunar rover, which travelled over 20 miles in a few hours, even under those extreme conditions.

never does quran say sun orbits the earth.
I understand that you haven't read the Quran so don't know what it actually says, but it explicitly describes the sun and moon both running in their orbits. It even says that the moon can never overtake the sun, which means they are on the same orbit.

that was the belief of bible followers it was the church that arrested Galileo for discovering earth orbits the sun .....
See, this is the problem when you get all your info from Islamic propaganda sources.
The Ancient Greeks figured out the sun was the centre of the solar system in the 3rd century BC (although it wasn't universally accepted). The heliocentric model that Galileo was promoting was actually formulated by Copernicus over 50 years earlier.

nowhere does quran say a worldwide flood occurred
Yes it does. By saying that Noah's son drowned despite taking refuge on a mountain, and that the ark came to rest on a mountain several thousand feet hight, it must have been a global flood. Those two events would be impossible without a global flood, and as they are recorded in the Quran, they must be factual accounts of events that actually happened, right?

and most certainly never gives the reason as fallen rapist angels [nephilim]...
You keep banging on about this, but I have no idea what you think the relevance is.

you may want to stay out of hate sites and start all over.
Why do you think that the Quran, sunnah and classical tafsir are "hate sites"?

quran ' earth spherical moves in orbit
The Quran absolutely does not say that. Whoever told you that was lying to you.
Seriously, you should read the Quran. You would see it really isn't anything special and sounds exactly as if it was written by 7th century Arabs using earlier beliefs and customs as their main source material.
 
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stanberger

Active Member
When did you mention them? (Remember that if you don't use the 'Reply' button, I don't know that you've posted anything. It's down in the bottom right of every post, labeled 'Reply'.

But anywho, let's examine these cases of "Scientists who converted to Islam after their research".
Dr Lawrence Brown - A person who prayed to god during a personal trauma, promising to devote their life to him if god saved his daughter. His daughter recovered. The consultant explained the medical reason for the recovery but Lawrence "didn't buy it". He read about different religions and arrived at Islam because he thought Muhammad was the "final prophet" referred to in earlier scripture.He says "faith had entered my heart". No mention of the "science" in the Quran. His being a doctor (who aren't really "scientists") was irrelevant.

Dr Gary Miller - In his story he claims he converted from Christianity to Islam partly because the Quran contains no errors. He obviously did no reasrch on the matter because it dos contain errors. The flood never happened. There is no iron and brass wall between two mountain peaks somewhere in Asia Minor. The sun does not move in an orbit with the moon. Bones do not form before flesh in the human embryo, etc...
He also says the Quran contains unexplainable miracles like saying worker bees are female. Firstly, the Quran never says that. Second, Aristotle says that worker bees are female in his book 'The History of Animals' centuries before the Quran was written.
So we can see that Miller's conversion was based on a lack of understanding.

Dr Jeffrey Lang - reading his account there is no mention of science, just that he felt "led" to Islam when he read the Quran.

I am happy to accept that some people convert to Islam for a variety of reasons, and some of them are doctors or scientists - bet the numbers are tiny. It is an extreme rarity. It your claims are true it should be the norm. However, the vast majority of scientists (especially experts) reject it as mere superstition. If you are going to cite a couple of converts, you also have to recognise the millions who don't.

A carpet is always spread out on a flat surface. If the authors of the Quran knew the earth was round, they would have used an analogy that better describes reality.

No idea what your point is here, but the earth's surface is also covered in natural obstacles - mountains, ravines, valleys, etc. The moon is actually pretty easy to navigate. Just watch the footage of the lunar rover, which travelled over 20 miles in a few hours, even under those extreme conditions.

I understand that you haven't read the Quran so don't know what it actually says, but it explicitly describes the sun and moon both running in their orbits. It even says that the moon can never overtake the sun, which means they are on the same orbit.

See, this is the problem when you get all your info from Islamic propaganda sources.
The Ancient Greeks figured out the sun was the centre of the solar system in the 3rd century BC (although it wasn't universally accepted). The heliocentric model that Galileo was promoting was actually formulated by Copernicus over 50 years earlier.

Yes it does. By saying that Noah's son drowned despite taking refuge on a mountain, and that the ark came to rest on a mountain several thousand feet hight, it must have been a global flood. Those two events would be impossible without a global flood, and as they are recorded in the Quran, they must be factual accounts of events that actually happened, right?

You keep banging on about this, but I have no idea what you think the relevance is.

Why do you think that the Quran, sunnah and classical tafsir are "hate sites"?

The Quran absolutely does not say that. Whoever told you that was lying to you.
Seriously, you should read the Quran. You would see it really isn't anything special and sounds exactly as if it was written by 7th century Arabs using earlier beliefs and customs as their main source material.
 

stanberger

Active Member
the same islamaphobe talking points have been answered ...the islamaphobe hopes to lead astray those who haven't read the quran and understood that these points are always going to be used by the haters ....another main reason many left church for islam is the god of the quran is more loving than the god of bible who orders ' babies heads be bashed against the rocks and who massacres innocent infants in their cribs in Egypt [passover]. which is to be celebrated
 

KWED

Scratching head, scratching knee
the same islamaphobe talking points have been answered
What are you on about?
All the points I raise are from the Quran and sunnah. Of course, you wouldn't know this because you clearly haven't read them. Also, you haven't addressed any of them.

another main reason many left church for islam is the god of the quran is more loving than the god of bible
They are both cruel, jealous, vindictive and intolerant monsters.
Any human who behaved like the god of the Quran would be locked away in a psychiatric institution.
 
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