Islam rejects meritocracies?

[Jabar]

@LuisDantas Look if i was to say may i ask a question on a topic you talked about and you say ''Oh, so you are asking me about it, you do not think God has an answer wow you contradict your way of life'' The answer to this is that God has created you obviously to seek knowledge, by the way this is not the only factor. So, if he created you to seek knowledge then you can use other people to help you. (until you find the truth)
The same way you are making misconceptions about Islam but still have not found the truth behind the things you define as a error.
Thank you for posting those misconceptions as i will answer them in a bit.


P.S. Take into consideration that these are my beliefs and i in no way intend to preach as they break the rule.

 

[Jabar]

@LuisDantas Now take a look at the example i used. The person (who is yourself in that example) says to the person that asked the question (who was me in the example) that you contradict your way of life. I am sure the person (yourself in that example) has already asked many people about certain topics, does this make him contradict his (you in the example) beliefs. No obviously. However, he (you in the example) is being arrogant and one sided even though he knows he himself (you in the example) has asked other people about topics. This is why i am saying you are making misconceptions. Now, i have to prove to you that these contradictions are in fact mistranslations and misconceptions before i actually make this judgement even though i believe (stating this to not break any rules) that the Qur'an has no errors and that they are not misconceptions and mistranslations which i will do.


Edit:


Do not let this present life deceive you.

 

[firedragon]

Is it at all surprising that a book that is supposed to be the perfect word of God is examined with attention for contradictions?





The "x is a hate site" excuse has grown very stale.

You can't expect to deserve a lot of respect and attention if you reserve yourself the right to disregard any criticisms quite so gratuitously.

Yep, but when you post a link http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/contra/by_name.html which has alleged contradictions to oppose my post http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/islam-rejects-meritocracies.186624/page-5#post-4728082 which has teachings in order to just oppose, with no relevance, what respect do you command?

An answer "I have coconuts in my bag" to a question "What time is it".

Only the deaf would do that.

Thats why, you cant pick one single point from the site you posted to oppose a single point in my post. Because in your haste to just oppose a person without even considering one look at it, you have just made a fool of yoursef.

My post http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/islam-rejects-meritocracies.186624/page-5#post-4728082
Your response of opposition http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/contra/by_name.html

Simply cheap.

 

[Jabar]

@LuisDantas Now answer me, brother. Also, can you please just tell me one ''contradiction'' at a time on here so i can clarify them. Thank you!

 

[LuisDantas]

Wonder why I was expecting someone to post a link that has a list? Easy, no need to analyse, but you must not accept, thus, just show a link to a hate site.

You know, you calling Skeptics Annotated Bible (and Quran) a "hate site" reminds me of those puzzling questions about whether one has read the Quran "neutrally".

Could it be that you feel that skepticism and/or criticism of the Quran must be motivated by some form of hatred? That is not a very reasonable stance for one to have, but it would explain a lot.

 

[LuisDantas]

@LuisDantas Now answer me, brother. Also, can you please just tell me one ''contradiction'' at a time on here so i can clarify them. Thank you!

In all fairness, I think I have earned the right not to go through it all once again.

I spend a lot of good will and effort with Muslims that don't return the favor all that often, and I see no reason to do that once again right now.

Surely it can't be too hard for you to simply pick an example or two and answer them as you like, if anything there strikes you as particularly relevant, inaccurate or unfair.

But if you don't feel like doing it, that is ok too.

 

[LuisDantas]

@LuisDantas Look if i was to say may i ask a question on a topic you talked about and you say ''Oh, so you are asking me about it, you do not think God has an answer wow you contradict your way of life''

I am sorry, but I am having trouble parsing this. I just don't understand what you mean to say.

The answer to this is that God has created you obviously to seek knowledge, by the way this is not the only factor. So, if he created you to seek knowledge then you can use other people to help you. (until you find the truth)

That sounds unlikely but not altogether impossible. It would however have the interesting consequence that God wants me to spread the word of disbelief. Something that I do not particularly doubt, to the extent that my own disbelief allows me to consider God as an idea seriously at all.

Although really, that is taking belief in God way too seriously anyway.

The same way you are making misconceptions about Islam but still have not found the truth behind the things you define as a error.

Excuse me? You can hardly expect me to simply assume that I am making misconceptions that you can't be bothered to evidence, just like that.

If you don't care to point them out, then I can't be expected to care about them either. Fair enough?

Thank you for posting those misconceptions as i will answer them in a bit.
P.S. Take into consideration that these are my beliefs and i in no way intend to preach as they break the rule.

Maybe you misunderstood me? I am not seeking to be convinced that the Quran is accurate or anything similar.

 

[LuisDantas]

@LuisDantas Now take a look at the example i used. The person (who is yourself in that example) says to the person that asked the question (who was me in the example) that you contradict your way of life. I am sure the person (yourself in that example) has already asked many people about certain topics, does this make him contradict his (you in the example) beliefs. No obviously. However, he (you in the example) is being arrogant and one sided even though he knows he himself (you in the example) has asked other people about topics. This is why i am saying you are making misconceptions. Now, i have to prove to you that these contradictions are in fact mistranslations and misconceptions before i actually make this judgement even though i believe (stating this to not break any rules) that the Qur'an has no errors and that they are not misconceptions and mistranslations which i will do.


Edit:


Do not let this present life deceive you.

Is this supposed to refer to me?

I have no idea how that would work.

 

[LuisDantas]

Yep, but when you post a link http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/contra/by_name.html which has alleged contradictions to oppose my post http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/islam-rejects-meritocracies.186624/page-5#post-4728082 which has teachings in order to just oppose, with no relevance, what respect do you command?

An answer "I have coconuts in my bag" to a question "What time is it".

Only the deaf would do that.

What you are saying here... makes no sense whatsoever. I can't feel offended by it. It does not make enough sense to do the trick.

Thats why, you cant pick one single point from the site you posted to oppose a single point in my post. Because in your haste to just oppose a person without even considering one look at it, you have just made a fool of yoursef.

My post http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/islam-rejects-meritocracies.186624/page-5#post-4728082
Your response of opposition http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/contra/by_name.html

Simply cheap.

If you say so.

 

[LuisDantas]

@LuisDantas Now answer me, brother. Also, can you please just tell me one ''contradiction'' at a time on here so i can clarify them. Thank you!

I am not aware of a question to be answered. May you restate it?

As for the contradictions, take your pick. It is not like I am too bothered by them anyway. I will never believe in the Quran.

 

[Jabar]

@LuisDantas I told you twice that i will answer the contradictions you claim. Why do you intend that i am implying that? I merely said i will answer those misconceptions later. The P.S. was to make a statement that i am not or at least not intending to breaking the rules.

 

[LuisDantas]

@LuisDantas I told you twice that i will answer the contradictions you claim.

You have a list. Do you want me to choose one for you? Is that it?

I think you are taking this as far more personal a thing for me than I see it as being.

The Quran and its contradictions are no concern of mine except to the extent that other people's beliefs make it be.

Why do you intend that i am implying that? I merely said i will answer those misconceptions later. The P.S. was to make a statement that i am not breaking the rules.

As you wish.

 

[Jabar]

@LuisDantas Haha, i respect you brother. Anyhow, yes i want you to pick it out brother, as i am trying to possibly be generous in a way. Pick one and i will show you. By the way, if you believe the same that it is the people's belief that make it to be, then why bother to post?, Either way, i would like you to pick out one even though i am unsure because you believe it is the people's belief that make it to be.

 

[LuisDantas]

@LuisDantas By the way, if you believe the same that it is the people's belief that make it to be, then why bother to post?

For various reasons, it is difficult to me to put myself in the place of theists, particularly Abrahamics and perhaps Muslims above all.

There is little remedy for that without interaction with Muslims and other theists.

 

[LuisDantas]

@LuisDantas Haha, i respect you brother. Anyhow, yes i want you to pick it out brother, as i am trying to possibly be generous in a way. Pick one and i will show you.

Ok then, tell me what you think of http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/contra/free.html

 

[Jabar]

@LuisDantas Once again, do not worry about me man. You pick one brother. I do not wanna just pick one, as it may not be suited for you.

 

[icehorse]

All right then. As I understand it, firedragon and/or Jabar are asking us to find contradictions in the Quran:

How about we just start with one, "equality":

FD offered "equality" as a lesson that Islam teaches. So does being a dhimmi seem like equality? Not to me it doesn't. It sounds like being a second class citizen, beneath all Muslims. How about being a woman in an Islamic society? Well, your Muslim husband is told that he is free to "plow" you whenever he wants. This strikes me as spousal abuse, not very equal. How about those pesky non-believers? The Quran criticizes non-believers over 500 times. Non-believers are called pigs and monkeys. Muslims are advised that non-believers are liars, and should not be befriended. Hmmm, not very equal in my book.

(As a prediction, the way this will go is that I will be asked to cite specific verses. When I do that, I will be told that I have misinterpreted these verses. I will point out that I'm simply reading translations created by extremely well regarded Islamic scholars. Then I'll probably be told that I haven't taken the verses in the correct historical context. To which I'll reply that I was told that Muslims hold that the Quran is perfect and timeless. To which... well we'll see what happens.)

 

[Jabar]

@icehorse Just to clear things up , i agree with @firedragon that equality is a lesson that Islam teaches. So, i would be required to give a detailed answer to the things you have said even though i have taken consideration of the fact that you say i include one of the two people who were asking you to find contradictions in the Qur'an. I am not sure on @firedragon and what he has said, however i will do what i am always doing, giving a message.

 

[icehorse]

@icehorse Just to clear things up , i agree with @firedragon that equality is a lesson that Islam teaches. So, i would be required to give a detailed answer to the things you have said even though i have taken consideration of the fact that you say i include one of the two people who were asking you to find contradictions in the Qur'an. I am not sure on @firedragon and what he has said, however i will do what i am always doing, giving a message.

It's okay if you give your answer and firedragon gives his answer - both answers are welcome.

 

[Jabar]

All right then. As I understand it, firedragon and/or Jabar are asking us to find contradictions in the Quran:

How about we just start with one, "equality":

FD offered "equality" as a lesson that Islam teaches. So does being a dhimmi seem like equality? Not to me it doesn't. It sounds like being a second class citizen, beneath all Muslims. How about being a woman in an Islamic society? Well, your Muslim husband is told that he is free to "plow" you whenever he wants. This strikes me as spousal abuse, not very equal..

Anyhow you speak on dhimmi. Does the Qur'an approve of it? Don't think so, if it is not equality. Everything you state are on these so called Muslims, so i do not find this to be a contradiction in the Qur'an. It is the human beings who create these acts. Also, take into consideration, that this is not only prevalent in this so called Islamic Society but also is in so called Christian Society, and other societies in particular.


Note: Once again, it is not if it is a Islamic scholar that translates it, or a commonly known scholar or person who translates it. I do not care if it is Michael Jordan, or Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. If it does not give the actual meaning of what Allah said, then it is not of significance and does not prove anything.