Islam: Religion of Peace or Religion for War?

[Jabar]

Unfortunately there is a crap-load of muslims who do not believe that. Why are they wrong and you right?

Not really.

Some believe, some do not.

In reality, they are not true Muslims, but wrongdoers who call themselves Muslims.

I am right because killing innocent people is prohibited.

 

[blue taylor]

Islam is a religion of peace as any other religion, terrorism knows no religion and everything terrorists do is far from teachings of Quran and they are mostly led by greed, money & power plus revenge (to USA & their allies).

"Islam Is A Religion Of Peace" The phrase heard around the world, spoken by Islam. All you have to do is turn on the news and watch. Read history not religious dogma. You will not see Islam as a religion of peace. What Islam says is one thing, what Islam does is another.

 

[blue taylor]

Not really.

Some believe, some do not.

In reality, they are not true Muslims, but wrongdoers who call themselves Muslims.

I am right because killing innocent people is prohibited.

Then why don't they use some other religion to justify themselves and their actions? Why are the teachings of Islam so appropiate for their use?

 

[Jabar]

"Islam Is A Religion Of Peace" The phrase heard around the world, spoken by Islam. All you have to do is turn on the news and watch. Read history not religious dogma. You will not see Islam as a religion of peace. What Islam says is one thing, what Islam does is another.

Yeah, propaganda in the news huh...

Pfttt...

 

[Subhankar Zac]

"Islam Is A Religion Of Peace" The phrase heard around the world, spoken by Islam. All you have to do is turn on the news and watch. Read history not religious dogma. You will not see Islam as a religion of peace. What Islam says is one thing, what Islam does is another.

For many, hate and bloodbath is still peaceful.
Centered around an idea of being the largest religion by having larger families and wanting special rights for themselves in Europe while for non Muslims in Muslim nations, rights don't exist.
While it is true that any text can be used for terrorism including some unfortunate buddhist books, but there's a difference.
What people do in the name of religion and what texts suggest people should do.

 

[Jabar]

Then why don't they use some other religion to justify themselves and their actions? Why are the teachings of Islam so appropiate for their use?

It is not, every religious group has terrorists you do not even know.

#1 Terrorist is George Bush in my opinion.

 

[Marsh]

Islam is a religion of peace as any other religion, terrorism knows no religion and everything terrorists do is far from teachings of Quran and they are mostly led by greed, money & power plus revenge (to USA & their allies).

ISIS are not just terrorists, they are religious fanatics and they are following the example of the Prophet as laid out in the Koran and the Hadith. They are very much Islamic. Anyone who doubts this needs to read the article at the following link:

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

 

[Aquitaine]

This topic, I am sure has come up before, though not during my active time here, and I hope the old timers don't mind if we address it once again. It seems to be a subject of discussion in one of the threads on atheism and I thought perhaps we should have a thread dedicated to the subject.

I have read Karen Armstrong on Islam, and her stance is very positive toward the faith, but there is much she simply does not mention. My understanding is that the Arabs of Mohammad's time were, many of them, employed in caravan raiding, and this was Mohammad's occupation as well: before and after he became the Prophet. Also, the career of the Prophet seems to be one of nearly continuous warfare. I've not read the whole Koran, but I have read Why I Am Not A Muslim, by Ibn Warraq, and he presents a picture of Islam that is a threat to the peace and general well being of the world. Even as I write the news is reporting on yet another Islamic terror attack in England.

No one denies that the Koran has some very violent episodes, the question I pose is, can Islam get past the violence and become a faith that lives in peace around the world with other faiths, and even with atheism? As an atheist, I wouldn't risk ever travelling to an Islamic country. What happens if Islam attains a dominant position in the West? I fear that even here life would reach a tipping point and we could descend into ever escalating violence. Just a few weeks ago in Nova Scotia, Canada, two young boys of very recent Muslim immigrants held a grade three girl on the ground in the school yard, chain around her neck, choking her, and shouting "Muslims will rule the world!" Not a very propitious beginning for refugees recently welcomed into the country and, I fear, a warning of things yet to come.

Islam is not a religion of either peace or war, it is just another religion.

 

[Marsh]

In reality, they are not true Muslims, but wrongdoers who call themselves Muslims.

These other Muslims are simply practicing a more pure form of Islam than you are. The Jews who follow the Torah to the letter, don't stop being Jews, they simply become ultra conservative in relation to everyone else. ISIS are the ultra conservatives Islamists of the Muslim world, and they are truly dangerous, to everyone.

I am right because killing innocent people is prohibited.

The difficulty arises when ultra conservative Muslims judge that atheists, such as myself (and a host of other people), are not innocent, then according to the Koran we can be killed, and they make the claim that it is the duty of every Muslim to kill us. Such pronouncements happen all the time it the Islamic world. All of the authors I've recommended to you have had death threats imposed against them.

 

[blue taylor]

It is not, every religious group has terrorists you do not even know.

#1 Terrorist is George Bush in my opinion.

That's called state-sponsored terrorism. But George called it shock and awe. How Christian of him.

 

[blue taylor]

Islam may have a chance for real progress if there is a reformation. Islam badly needs a Martin Luther to "de-fang" and reform the radicals. But I am a pessimist. Any potential Muslim theologian who wants to pursue liberal reforms will end up in prison or worse. The current Islamic atmosphere is fetid and intolerant. Any dissident voices are squelched immediately.

They have their reformation. They are called Ahmadi Muslims. It is the fastest growing sect in Islam.

 

[Sapiens]

I believe it is a religion of peace.

Qur'an says if you kill one innocent person, it is as though you have killed the whole of humanity.
If you save one person, it is as though you have saved the whole of humanity.

Killing, i believe, is the second worst sin in Islam.

And the worst sin is? Why idolatry, of course. And the penalty for idolatry? Death!

What is that old saw? The best predictor of future behavior is previous behavior.

But hey ... I live in Hawaii, in the old days there were lots of rules, women could not eat a banana, don't step on the king's shadow ... but there was only one prescribed penalty: Death! At least here you could tromp on the king's shadow and take off running for the Puuhonua.

 

[Marsh]

Islam is not a religion of either peace or war, it is just another religion.

You are ignoring the amount of violence emanating from this religion, and it is my assertion that the Koran and the Hadith are the sources of this violence. Those who follow them without question and to the letter of the law bring terror into the world. I don't think any other world religion approaches the violence that this one is capable of producing.

 

[Jabar]

These other Muslims are simply practicing a more pure form of Islam than you are. The Jews who follow the Torah to the letter, don't stop being Jews, they simply become ultra conservative in relation to everyone else. ISIS are the ultra conservatives Islamists of the Muslim world, and they are truly dangerous, to everyone.


The difficulty arises when ultra conservative Muslims judge that atheists, such as myself (and a host of other people), are not innocent, then according to the Koran we can be killed, and they make the claim that it is the duty of every Muslim to kill us. Such pronouncements happen all the time it the Islamic world. All of the authors I've recommended to you have had death threats imposed against them.

ISIS do not follow the Qur'an you know?

They are brainwashed just as you are acting because you claim them to be doing the same thing as Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him.

You keep stating these people who have had death threats imposed on them. Stop talking about the people. I can find many Christians the same.

You should look at the Qur'an and not a man-made Ant-Islamic delusional resource.

 

[Jabar]

And the worst sin is? Why idolatry, of course. And the penalty for idolatry? Death!

What is that old saw? The best predictor of future behavior is previous behavior.

But hey ... I live in Hawaii, in the old days there were lots of rules, women could not eat a banana, don't step on the king's shadow ... but there was only one prescribed penalty: Death! At least here you could tromp on the king's shadow and take off running for the Puuhonua.

Death? Where in the Qur'an does it say that.

You are being like Marsh.

You cannot kill people for being disbelievers.

You can however defend your religion and spread the message.

Common misconceptions made by people.

 

[Aquitaine]

You are ignoring the amount of violence emanating from this religion, and it is my assertion that the Koran and the Hadith are the sources of this violence. Those who follow them without question and to the letter of the law bring terror into the world. I don't think any other world religion approaches the violence that this one is capable of producing.

Islam isn't a Death Cult, but it is also not a "Religion of Peace".

 

[Marsh]

Islam isn't a Death Cult, but it is also not a "Religion of Peace".

Alright, I would agree with you that Islam is not a religion of peace. Is the Koran a handbook for world conquest and would you call ISIS a death cult? More importantly, would you call ISIS Islamic?

 

[Jabar]

Islam isn't a Death Cult, but it is also not a "Religion of Peace".

Islam is a religion of Peace.

It is also a religion of living this complete tested life.

Peace is one of the things in there.

 

[Marsh]

That's called state-sponsored terrorism. But George called it shock and awe. How Christian of him.

The USA and its allies targeted the military. Islamic terrorist groups frequently target civilians.

 

[arthra]

I have read Karen Armstrong on Islam, and her stance is very positive toward the faith, but there is much she simply does not mention. My understanding is that the Arabs of Mohammad's time were, many of them, employed in caravan raiding, and this was Mohammad's occupation as well: before and after he became the Prophet.

I'd like to correct you on a point you made above... Before Muhammad was recognized as a Prophet He herded sheep and conveyed caravans at least once in Syria... His "occupation" was not raiding caravans.

After an attempt was made on the life of the Prophet in Mecca and He fled to Medina the Meccan pagans attacked Medina. After this a state of war existed between the Meccan and the Muslims who had fled to city of Medina and this included interdicting supplies of the Meccans and defending Medina.

It's true tribal warfare was fairly common among the Arabs but after the rise of Islam a state of unity existed in Arabia that had not been known before.

Also Islam was first preached by the Prophet and the believers before arms were employed in defence of the community... Consider the following verses:


And if they would dispute with thee, then say, 'I turn my face with resignation unto God, and whoso follows me.' And say to those who have been given the Book, unto the Gentiles, 'Are ye, too, resigned' and if they are resigned, then are they guided. But if they turn their backs, then thou hast only to preach, and God looks on his servants.

(The Qur'an (E.H. Palmer tr), Sura 3 - Imran's Family)

O thou Apostle! preach what has been revealed to thee from thy Lord;

(The Qur'an (E.H. Palmer tr), Sura 5 - The Table)

But if they turn their backs,- thine is only to preach thy plain message.
They recognise the favours of God, and yet they deny them, for most men are ungrateful.

(The Qur'an (E.H. Palmer tr), Sura 16 - The Bee)