Islam: Religion of Peace or Religion for War?

[Jabar]

Fair enough. They were arguably the mightiest Islamic empire, but they were hardly peaceful or interested only in self defense.

Then, i would say not exactly Islamic.

 

[Jabar]

Technically it should be "The punishment for apostasy as prescribed by 9th C Muslim jurists, and based on traditions that are likely 8th/9th C inventions, is death".

Augustus, you are not a Muslim?

 

[Aquitaine]

I honestly don't know how you think this video helps your case that the Koran doesn't - and Mohammad didn't - call for the deaths of innocent people.

Do you agree with the man in this video?

 

[Aquitaine]

Then, i would say not exactly Islamic.

What would you have said to them when they were convinced that they were being Islamic?
That empire may have history in your own country interestingly enough, which country are you from?

 

[Jabar]

I honestly don't know how you think this video helps your case that the Koran doesn't - and Mohammad didn't - call for the deaths of innocent people.

Do you agree with the man in this video?

Not totally, but just showing you the Arabs that did kill.

It is showing Death Penalty is certain in some cases,

Lets take for example Hitler. Death penalty is obvious for him. But, then again that is not enough. What about the rest 5,999,999 deaths.

Which is why Allah judges as he wills.

Allah can make Hitler burn 5,999,999, infinite, any amount he wills.

 

[Jabar]

What would you have said to them when they were convinced that they were being Islamic?
That empire may have history in your own country interestingly enough, which country are you from?

True, i would not care but also try my up most best to protect myself.

I will merely give the message if they do not listen, they are the wrongdoers.

I am from Afghanistan.

 

[Aquitaine]

Not totally, but just showing you the Arabs that did kill.

It is showing Death Penalty is certain in some cases,

Lets take for example Hitler. Death penalty is obvious for him. But, then again that is not enough. What about the rest 5,999,999 deaths.

Which is why Allah judges as he wills.

Allah can make Hitler burn 5,999,999, infinite, any amount he wills.

Death for apostasy is killing innocent people.

True, i would not care but also try my up most best to protect myself.

I will merely give the message if they do not listen, they are the wrongdoers.

I am from Afghanistan.

Interestingly enough, it appears Islam was brought to Afghanistan through violent conquest, not peace and self-defense.

 

[Jabar]

Death for apostasy is killing innocent people.



Interestingly enough, it appears Islam was brought to Afghanistan through violent conquest, not peace and self-defense.

Yeah, i am not for it, neither is Qur'an and Muhammad.

Not really, haha.

 

[Aquitaine]

Yeah, i am not for it, neither is Qur'an and Muhammad.

Not really, haha.

But the man in the video you linked said that Mohammad instructed muslims to behead apostates.

Would the Saffarid incursions in to Afghanistan and the Gaznavid islamization count as islamic conquest?

 

[Jabar]

But the man in the video you linked said that Mohammad instructed muslims to behead apostates.

Would the Saffarid incursions in to Afghanistan and the Gaznavid islamization count as islamic conquest?

Yeah, i believe in partial not all.

Not exactly.

Anyhow, do you think the Iraq war was necessary? I heard nearly 500,000 casualties.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/15/iraq-death-toll_n_4102855.html

 

[Marsh]

I always find it facinating when people judge Islam according to Daesh and how they say they are following the Prophet.
So billions of muslims are wrong except Al Quaida, Daesh etc who follow the perfect Islam.

Al Quaida, Daesh (ISIS), etc. think they they are the only true Muslims, and are often willing to kill to make their point. ISIS alone has probably murdered more Shia than they have killed any other single religious group. The thing is, you can identify religious conservatives by their failure to recognize anyone except their own members as true followers of the faith. This is true of Muslims, Jews, Christians, or anyone else. Those who are deeply conservative are usually deeply religious and are very set in their minds as to proper theological interpretation. This doesn't make them right, but it does make them steadfast and unwilling to compromise.

I don't know if you want to look at an article in The Atlantic, or not, but it explains my position very well (oh, and I held this position before reading the story). http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

Seriously ? You don't risk anything, people don't ask you about your faith, and even if they did they won't kill you.

My wife's uncle went to Saudi Arabia in the 80's and he ended up in a sticky situation before the courts. I don't remember the details now, but as he explained it, the assumption was that he was guilty. He was set free before the day was out, but he told us he would never go back. As a Westerner you don't know what situation you might inadvertently find yourself facing. Also, there are the accounts of tourists being kidnapped and beheaded if ransoms aren't paid. This happened to a Canadian tourist last week. Another Canadian and his girlfriend are still being held along with a few other Westerners. I am sure none of them imagined they would be kidnapped while on holiday.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Far more harm has been done to the world in the name of Christianity than in the name of Islam. Christians committed genocide (both physical and cultural) against and enslaved tens of millions of people around the world, share much of the blame for the destruction of Classical civilization and plunged Europe into intellectual darkness for almost a millenia. Muslim empires had their share of brutality and discrimination, too (like all cultures and empires), but while the Christian world was languishing in filth (literally), corruption, brutality and superstition, the Islamic world was flourishing. Spain, for example, culturally blossomed under Muslim rule and became a major center of science and the arts but after the Christians retook it, it fell into barbarism with even suspected Jews and Muslims being persecuted, tortured and killed. There's a reason why we tend to remember Saladin as a hero.

Islamic cultures tended to be somewhat more open-minded about sexual and gender matters, which is a part of their Hellenic heritage, while the Christians were repressed to the point of hysteria. (Islam doesn't have the negative view of the physical world that Christianity tends to, as it's not dualistic.) For much of its history, if I had a choice, I'd definitely choose to live in the Muslim cultures.

Islam as it is now is a mess (but not all of it, there's some bright lights here and there). That's due to a variety of things such as the fallout of colonialism, poverty, corruption, meddling from outside forces (like the US and Russia) and so on. It's quite sad. Hopefully it will change for the better. But, then again, most of the world is going through a period of great turmoil.

 

[Marsh]

Anyhow, do you think the Iraq war was necessary? I heard nearly 500,000 casualties.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/15/iraq-death-toll_n_4102855.html

For my part I believe the Iraq war was a serious mistake and I am glad Canada did not get involved. Our prime minister at the time, a Liberal, thought it was a mistake. Saddam Husaine was a murdering tyrant, yes, and the regime was wicked, yes, but killing him removed the top predator and allowed ISIS to come into existence.

The article you link to claims some half million casualties resulted from the American led war, probably an exaggeration. If you read the article they are counting heart attack and cancer deaths and claiming these resulted from the conflict. They are also including women who died from pregnancies and child birth. Do you really think these types of deaths never occurred before the war? Bet they did. Essentially they seem to be counting deaths from all causes.

Let's not forget that the number perishing under Saddam himself starts at some 250,000 murders, with the true number unknown.

 

[Marsh]

There we have it: the penalty for apostasy in Islam is death; and I am guessing you agree with this? Now the mullah in this particular video was a little less stringent than some. He believes it is not proper for just any Muslim to carry out an execution, but that it must fall to the proper authorities. Even the killing of Theo Van Gogh, a non-Muslim, was called an execution by this mullah. Islam supports murder in the modern world and you wonder why many of us have serious issues with the content of this religion?

 

[Marsh]

No, most Muslims believe it to be a religion of peace.

I would agree that people wrongly interpret the Qur'an, but overall it is a religion of peace, and also is self-defense which is logic.

Jabar, Islam by your own admission wants to execute anyone who abandons the faith for Christianity, or any other belief system. That is not a religion of peace; it is a religion of tyranny.

 

[Marsh]

I honestly don't know how you think this video helps your case that the Koran doesn't - and Mohammad didn't - call for the deaths of innocent people.

Perhaps Jabar thinks apostates are not innocent?

Jabar, do you think apostates, at the very least, are guilty of sinning as a result of having left Islam? Do you think there should perhaps be some sort of punishment for them. What of atheists?

 

[DawudTalut]

There we have it: the penalty for apostasy in Islam is death; and I am guessing you agree with this? Now the mullah in this particular video was a little less stringent than some. He believes it is not proper for just any Muslim to carry out an execution, but that it must fall to the proper authorities. Even the killing of Theo Van Gogh, a non-Muslim, was called an execution by this mullah. Islam supports murder in the modern world and you wonder why many of us have serious issues with the content of this religion?

Peace be on you.
1=To the Mr. clergy and to anyone else!

What does Quran said:
Holy Quran (ch4:v138) Those who believe, then disbelieve, then again believe, then disbelieve and then increase in disbelief, Allah will never forgive them nor will He guide them to the right way.

2=Repeatedly one believes and leave, matter is not for others to decide, it is with God.

3=There are numerous references from the Holy Quran and the history of Islam to expose the fallacy that Islam prescribes any corporal punishment for those who renounce Islam as their faith.

4=The wrong idea for punishment of apostate was came in islam's medieval time. This idea began in the late Umayyad dynasty. Throughout the Abbaside period, the idea continued to flourish.

Verses, Traditions, Companions, Conflicts with the Practice of the Holy Prophet sa,....Internal Criteria,

To conclude, apostasy is the clear repudiation of a faith by a person who formerly held it. Doctrinal differences, however grave, cannot be deemed to be apostasy. The Punishment for Apostasy lies in the hand of God Almighty, against whom the offence has been committed. Apostasy which is not aggravated by some other crime is not punishable in this world. This is the teaching of God. This was the teaching of the Holy Prophet sa. This is the view confirmed by Hanafi jurists,26Fateh al-Kadeer27 Chalpi,28 Hafiz ibn Qayyim, Ibrahim Nakhai, Sufyan Thauri and many others.

Ref:https://www.alislam.org/library/books/mna/chapter_7.html
(Ahmadiyya Khalifah explains the right position with references)

 

[psychoslice]

I believe it is a religion of peace.

Qur'an says if you kill one innocent person, it is as though you have killed the whole of humanity.
If you save one person, it is as though you have saved the whole of humanity.

Killing, i believe, is the second worst sin in Islam.

If only this was more practiced.

 

[DawudTalut]

If only this was more practiced.

How to make it more practiced?
Instead of opposing Islam and its Holy Prophet (pbuh), wise of the world should think and take practical steps, and work productively with balanced minds and hearts of Islam.

 

[psychoslice]

How to make it more practiced?

Actions speaks loader than words, or scripture.