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Islam: Religion of Peace or Religion for War?

Aquitaine

Aquitaine

Well-Known Member
Jabar said:
Refer to the Qur'an and see which is correct and incorrect.

:)
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But that requires subjective human interpretation which varies from person to person. You and I could read the same verse, and interpret two completely different meanings from it.
 
Jabar

Jabar

“Strive always to excel in virtue and truth.”
Aquitaine said:
But that requires subjective human interpretation which varies from person to person. You and I could read the same verse, and interpret two completely different meanings from it.
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No, it requires deep understanding of the Qur'an.

However, you might interpret differently without reading it correctly.

The Qur'an is explicit on murder of innocent.



:)
 
Aquitaine

Aquitaine

Well-Known Member
Jabar said:
No, it requires deep understanding of the Qur'an.

However, you might interpret differently without reading it correctly.

The Qur'an is explicit on murder of innocent.



:)
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Even if we both had the same upbringing, education and studying of Arabic and the Koran, we can still have two different interpretations - hence why there are splits in Islamic doctrine/practice like with all religions.
 
Jabar

Jabar

“Strive always to excel in virtue and truth.”
Aquitaine said:
Even if we both had the same upbringing, education and studying of Arabic and the Koran, we can still have two different interpretations - hence why there are splits in Islamic doctrine/practice like with all religions.
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How do you have different interpretations on an explicit statement in the Qur'an or rather you are arrogant and want to fit things for your own desires.

“…if any one killed a person, it would be as if he killed the whole of mankind; and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole of mankind…” - The Holy Quran (Chapter Five, Verse 32).

If you were taught, most will know it to be as i say it. The rest are wrongdoers or people who are arrogant.
 
Jabar

Jabar

“Strive always to excel in virtue and truth.”
Sapiens said:
No to what? No, the death penalty is not demanded or No, who should perform the execution is not the disagreement?
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I believe i already answered that question.

No, the DP not demanded.

:)
 
EtuMalku

EtuMalku

Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
Marsh said:
This topic, I am sure has come up before, though not during my active time here, and I hope the old timers don't mind if we address it once again. It seems to be a subject of discussion in one of the threads on atheism and I thought perhaps we should have a thread dedicated to the subject.

I have read Karen Armstrong on Islam, and her stance is very positive toward the faith, but there is much she simply does not mention. My understanding is that the Arabs of Mohammad's time were, many of them, employed in caravan raiding, and this was Mohammad's occupation as well: before and after he became the Prophet. Also, the career of the Prophet seems to be one of nearly continuous warfare. I've not read the whole Koran, but I have read Why I Am Not A Muslim, by Ibn Warraq, and he presents a picture of Islam that is a threat to the peace and general well being of the world. Even as I write the news is reporting on yet another Islamic terror attack in England.

No one denies that the Koran has some very violent episodes, the question I pose is, can Islam get past the violence and become a faith that lives in peace around the world with other faiths, and even with atheism? As an atheist, I wouldn't risk ever travelling to an Islamic country. What happens if Islam attains a dominant position in the West? I fear that even here life would reach a tipping point and we could descend into ever escalating violence. Just a few weeks ago in Nova Scotia, Canada, two young boys of very recent Muslim immigrants held a grade three girl on the ground in the school yard, chain around her neck, choking her, and shouting "Muslims will rule the world!" Not a very propitious beginning for refugees recently welcomed into the country and, I fear, a warning of things yet to come.
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I cannot find the peace in a faith that condones and promotes the beating of women and/or regulating them to second class humans.

Quran (4:34) - "Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great."

Contemporary translations sometimes water down the word 'beat', but it is the same one used in verse 8:12 and clearly means 'to strike'.

Quran (38:44) - "And take in your hand a green branch and beat her with it, and do not break your oath..." Allah telling Job to beat his wife (Tafsir).
 
The_Fisher_King

The_Fisher_King

Trying to bring myself ever closer to Allah
Premium Member
Jabar said:
How do you have different interpretations on an explicit statement in the Qur'an or rather you are arrogant and want to fit things for your own desires.

“…if any one killed a person, it would be as if he killed the whole of mankind; and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole of mankind…” - The Holy Quran (Chapter Five, Verse 32).

If you were taught, most will know it to be as i say it. The rest are wrongdoers or people who are arrogant.
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Salaam,

So all killing of people is wrong, no matter what the circumstances?

Wassalaam
 
Jabar

Jabar

“Strive always to excel in virtue and truth.”
Ya'quub said:
Salaam,

So all killing of people is wrong, no matter what the circumstances?

Wassalaam
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No killing innocent people is wrong.

If you are doing it for self-defense then it may be ok to kill, but killing is wrong.

:)
 
The_Fisher_King

The_Fisher_King

Trying to bring myself ever closer to Allah
Premium Member
Jabar said:
No killing innocent people is wrong.

If you are doing it for self-defense then it may be ok to kill, but killing is wrong.

:)
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Salaam,

That sounds like an interpretation of the above Verse to me... ;)

In any case, who is not innocent, in your opinion?

Wassalaam
 
Jabar

Jabar

“Strive always to excel in virtue and truth.”
Ya'quub said:
Salaam,

That sounds like an interpretation of the above Verse to me... ;)

In any case, who is not innocent, in your opinion?

Wassalaam
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Innocent is those who are not guilty of crime or offense specifically murder and such, just regular living people.
 
A

Agondonter

Active Member
Muhammad was hardly a good example for his "religion of peace": he was a murderer, and terrorists today are merely following his example.
 
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