Islam thread

[islam abduallah]

It's okay. Perhaps I was being a bit unfair, anyway. I'd had a long evening, and it was 1 o' clock in the morning over here. ^_^

don't worry, we are all learning about each other

 

[Flankerl]

it might seem hilarious to you, but I think God has explained that divorce is not something to be taken lightly:

Malachi 2:13 “And this is the second thing that YOU people do, [this resulting in] covering with tears the altar of Jehovah, with weeping and sighing, so that there is no more a turning toward the gift offering or a taking of pleasure [in anything] from YOUR hand. 14 And YOU have said, ‘On what account?’ On this account, that Jehovah himself has borne witness between you and the wife of your youth, with whom you yourself have dealt treacherously, although she is your partner and the wife of your covenant....And YOU people must guard yourselves respecting YOUR spirit, and with the wife of your youth may no one deal treacherously. 16 For he has hated a divorcing,”

So? God gave out strict rules of what to be done in case of a divorce.
Is it a sad affair for god? Appareantly yes, but at the same time he allows it.

So the idea that every marriage should always be for life is an entirely christian concept which is not supported by the Tanakh.

 

[Pegg]

So? God gave out strict rules of what to be done in case of a divorce.
Is it a sad affair for god? Appareantly yes, but at the same time he allows it.

So the idea that every marriage should always be for life is an entirely christian concept which is not supported by the Tanakh.

he also allows wickedness to exist, he allows false gods to exist and allows people to worship them

But will he always allow such things? Do not the Hebrew scriptures tell us that he has chosen a day to bring such things to an end?
Do not the scriptures say that he will restore peace and security to the nations? Do not they say that he will turn his attention to mankind and set things right?

If we are not willing to make some sort of attempt to live by Gods standards of righteousness now, then who is to say we will be willing to do so when he forces such changes? Perhaps we will be classed in among the wicked who have rejected God outright...that would be a sad outcome for those who want to remain on Gods side.

 

[Flankerl]

Comparing divorce with wickedness and false gods.

I applaud you. :clap


Obviously people should stick together even if they dont fit together or there is demestic violence. Deus vult!

 

[Satyamavejayanti]

islam abduallah;3247452]you read it right but unfortuantly you didn't understand it

"As to those who reject Faith it is the same to them whether thou warn them or do not warn them; They will not believe. "Allah hath set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing and on their eyes is a veil Great is the penalty they incur." [Al-Qur'an 2:6-7]

I was referring to the above quote from koran, what does it mean if not what i think it does?

according to Islam, you are worshiping a fake god and so you are exposing yourself to the hell fire

I don't believe in Hell, so i don't believe in Islam and its teachings.

 

[Matthew78]

Comparing divorce with wickedness and false gods.

I applaud you. :clap


Obviously people should stick together even if they dont fit together or there is demestic violence. Deus vult!

I know of some Christians who consider divorce to be just heinous. Nevermind that you have a point that there are some people who are ill-matched and shouldn't be together, like all of my grandparents. Sometimes two young people get married when they're too young for it or before getting to know one another, thinking that they can simply make the ill-fated marriage work. Sometimes it just doesn't happen.

 

[Jkwiyup]

I haven't read the Quran yet though I intend on reading it but from what I've heard about it....it doesn't sound good.

My view on god is constantly changing but as of this moment I'm an Agnostic Theist

I don't believe in prophets, this concept doesn't make much sense to me and is unverifiable.

Praying 5 times a day is unnecessary IMO...why would god require it?

The whole "slave of god" thing doesn't sit well with me at all either.

The "Fitnah" of music and dancing is ridiculous IMO.

I don't believe in an afterlife or care about one for that matter.

I don't believe in angels, jinn or etc either.

The treatment of women within Islam, the violence within the Quran and several other issues also keep me from being Muslim.

But irrespective of all this, for some reason i seem compelled to seek out Islam. I don't have any intention of converting but i definitely would like to know more about it.

 

[Gharib]

I haven't read the Quran yet though I intend on reading it but from what I've heard about it....it doesn't sound good.

My view on god is constantly changing but as of this moment I'm an Agnostic Theist

I don't believe in prophets, this concept doesn't make much sense to me and is unverifiable.

Praying 5 times a day is unnecessary IMO...why would god require it?

The whole "slave of god" thing doesn't sit well with me at all either.

The "Fitnah" of music and dancing is ridiculous IMO.

I don't believe in an afterlife or care about one for that matter.

I don't believe in angels, jinn or etc either.

The treatment of women within Islam, the violence within the Quran and several other issues also keep me from being Muslim.

But irrespective of all this, for some reason i seem compelled to seek out Islam. I don't have any intention of converting but i definitely would like to know more about it.

Hi Jkwiyup

Welcome to the forum.

If you have any questions about Islam it is best to ask them in the Islamic DIR but if you wish to debate any matter then a thread in the Religious Debates section is best suited for that.

If you don't mind a few questions, what have you heard about the Qur'an that doesn't sound good?

And as for worshiping God, there is an Arabic term 'Ibadah' which actually means worship. The very word Muslim means 'someone who has submitted to the will of God'. So if you look at 'Ibadah' anything which we do because God wants us to do it is Ibadah - worship.

We were sent to this universe (world) to be trialed and the biggest trial that we face is obedience to God. We either obey him (i.e worship him) or we don't. We are free to choose and therefore we are solely responsible for our choices. God doesn't require our worship, it increases him in nothing if we do and it decreases him in nothing if we don't, it is merely a trial for us.

I hope that's somewhat helpful.

 

[Jkwiyup]

Hi Jkwiyup

Welcome to the forum.

If you have any questions about Islam it is best to ask them in the Islamic DIR but if you wish to debate any matter then a thread in the Religious Debates section is best suited for that.

If you don't mind a few questions, what have you heard about the Qur'an that doesn't sound good?

And as for worshiping God, there is an Arabic term 'Ibadah' which actually means worship. The very word Muslim means 'someone who has submitted to the will of God'. So if you look at 'Ibadah' anything which we do because God wants us to do it is Ibadah - worship.

We were sent to this universe (world) to be trialed and the biggest trial that we face is obedience to God. We either obey him (i.e worship him) or we don't. We are free to choose and therefore we are solely responsible for our choices. God doesn't require our worship, it increases him in nothing if we do and it decreases him in nothing if we don't, it is merely a trial for us.

I hope that's somewhat helpful.

Thanks for the welcome.

As for the negative things I've heard about the Quran: Death for apostasy, and just lots of violence in general.

I understand the "submission of god" aspect but idk the whole act of submitting seems...forceful

 

[Gharib]

Thanks for the welcome.

As for the negative things I've heard about the Quran: Death for apostasy, and just lots of violence in general.

In Islam there are sins of different levels, in this life, some are punishable and some are not. And about half a dozen of them are capital crimes.

Islam is not just a mere 'faith' it is a way of life. And some measures are necessary for the greater good. One could say that the whole of Islam is violent in comparison to a few other religions such as Buddhism who do not take up arms and go to war (the monks don't anyway) while Islam mandates that people go to war in defense of innocent people, ones home and ones land etc. The same with Hindusim, they don't kill animals, while Islam says that we are permitted to.

It all depends by whose standards are we judging Islam? If by those of Buddhism then Islam is violent, if by those of Hindusim then Islam is violent? To do justice Islam must be judged by the standards of Islam.

I understand the "submission of god" aspect but idk the whole act of submitting seems...forceful

Not to pray in this case is a sin, there is no punishment for it in this life. However, those who do it do so out of love for God and not out of fear or out of force. I have no one to tell me that I should or need to pray. But I choose to do it out of love for God.

If one does a certain something out of fear then at the first opportunity they get, they would stop doing it. But if done out of love, then at every opportunity that they get, they'd do it.

If you go to a mosque, you will always find people there at any time of the day even though the time to pray has not come yet. Do you think that's out of fear/force?

 

[Jkwiyup]

In Islam there are sins of different levels, in this life, some are punishable and some are not. And about half a dozen of them are capital crimes.

Islam is not just a mere 'faith' it is a way of life. And some measures are necessary for the greater good. One could say that the whole of Islam is violent in comparison to a few other religions such as Buddhism who do not take up arms and go to war (the monks don't anyway) while Islam mandates that people go to war in defense of innocent people, ones home and ones land etc. The same with Hindusim, they don't kill animals, while Islam says that we are permitted to.

It all depends by whose standards are we judging Islam? If by those of Buddhism then Islam is violent, if by those of Hindusim then Islam is violent? To do justice Islam must be judged by the standards of Islam.

It is in comparison to other religions. It doesn't make sense to me that Islam is called the religion of peace if there's so much violence in it. I understand that extremist's and fundamentalist's are responsible for a lot of the violence, but it still exists in it's scriptures.

Not to pray in this case is a sin, there is no punishment for it in this life. However, those who do it do so out of love for God and not out of fear or out of force. I have no one to tell me that I should or need to pray. But I choose to do it out of love for God.

If one does a certain something out of fear then at the first opportunity they get, they would stop doing it. But if done out of love, then at every opportunity that they get, they'd do it.

If you go to a mosque, you will always find people there at any time of the day even though the time to pray has not come yet. Do you think that's out of fear/force?

The people who attend the mosque have accepted Islam and observe it's rules. My question is why god tells people to pray 5 times a day. Does the number of times someone prays really matter?

 

[cocolia42]

It is in comparison to other religions. It doesn't make sense to me that Islam is called the religion of peace if there's so much violence in it. I understand that extremist's and fundamentalist's are responsible for a lot of the violence, but it still exists in it's scriptures.

Violence (and capital punishment) exists in other scriptures as well, such as the Torah/Old Testament. The difference is that Islam is a universal way of life, meaning that the guidelines it provides are for every people in every nation at every time. So we (as Muslims) cannot say that something is "outdated". We see in some other religions, people changing the rules as the times change. Islam does not allow this.

The people who attend the mosque have accepted Islam and observe it's rules. My question is why god tells people to pray 5 times a day. Does the number of times someone prays really matter?

God may tell people to pray 5 times a day as a way of remembering Him throughout the day. If we were to pray only once a week, for example, then how are we behaving the other 6 days of the week? Or if were to pray once a day, then how are we behaving the other 23 1/2 hours of the day? The 5 daily prayers are a mercy from God. It causes us to stop what we are doing in this worldly life to think about and worship God.

The reality for us is, it doesn't matter WHY God tells us to pray 5 times a day. He's the Boss. It's nice to understand how His commands are helping us, but even when we don't understand, we still obey.

You ask does the number of times someone prays really matter...the answer is no. What really matters is that we are continually renewing our faith, becoming closer to God, and by His mercy, closer to Paradise.

People who accept Islam do not accept it because of the rules. I'm sure we all have at least a few rules we don't like. But we accept Islam because it is an acknowledgement that God is the Lord, that He created us and everything in existence, that He is in control, that all we have is from Him and we are grateful for all of this. We love God for what He has done for us and want to show Him our appreciation.

Think about your mother. Do you...on her birthday or mother's day or when she is not feeling well...help her out around the house? Maybe make her breakfast, do the laundry, clean the house? This is because you love her and appreciate her. Not because you like doing chores. This is similar to how we feel toward God.

As for Islam being a religion of peace...it absolutely is....in more ways than one.
It is a religion of peace because it teaches us to be peaceful toward each other and the rest of God's creation. We are only permitted to use violence as a means to protect people from the violence and oppression of others...therefore promoting peace.
More importantly, it is a religion of inner peace. When you realize that God is in control, that nothing can happen without His permission, that He has a plan, and that His Wisdom is perfect, you feel inner peace. Your worries and fears disappear.

Islam is truly a beautiful way of life. But you have to be willing to submit to the will of God because he IS above you.

 

[Jkwiyup]

Violence (and capital punishment) exists in other scriptures as well, such as the Torah/Old Testament. The difference is that Islam is a universal way of life, meaning that the guidelines it provides are for every people in every nation at every time. So we (as Muslims) cannot say that something is "outdated". We see in some other religions, people changing the rules as the times change. Islam does not allow this.

True violence and capital punishment does exist in other scriptures, particularly the Abrhamic faith's scriptures, but i don't agree with those either.Things do become outdated. Certain things do have to change. Outdated things can't be used in this current day and time.

God may tell people to pray 5 times a day as a way of remembering Him throughout the day. If we were to pray only once a week, for example, then how are we behaving the other 6 days of the week? Or if were to pray once a day, then how are we behaving the other 23 1/2 hours of the day? The 5 daily prayers are a mercy from God. It causes us to stop what we are doing in this worldly life to think about and worship God.

The reality for us is, it doesn't matter WHY God tells us to pray 5 times a day. He's the Boss. It's nice to understand how His commands are helping us, but even when we don't understand, we still obey.

You ask does the number of times someone prays really matter...the answer is no. What really matters is that we are continually renewing our faith, becoming closer to God, and by His mercy, closer to Paradise.

People who accept Islam do not accept it because of the rules. I'm sure we all have at least a few rules we don't like. But we accept Islam because it is an acknowledgement that God is the Lord, that He created us and everything in existence, that He is in control, that all we have is from Him and we are grateful for all of this. We love God for what He has done for us and want to show Him our appreciation.

Think about your mother. Do you...on her birthday or mother's day or when she is not feeling well...help her out around the house? Maybe make her breakfast, do the laundry, clean the house? This is because you love her and appreciate her. Not because you like doing chores. This is similar to how we feel toward God.

As for Islam being a religion of peace...it absolutely is....in more ways than one.
It is a religion of peace because it teaches us to be peaceful toward each other and the rest of God's creation. We are only permitted to use violence as a means to protect people from the violence and oppression of others...therefore promoting peace.
More importantly, it is a religion of inner peace. When you realize that God is in control, that nothing can happen without His permission, that He has a plan, and that His Wisdom is perfect, you feel inner peace. Your worries and fears disappear.

Islam is truly a beautiful way of life. But you have to be willing to submit to the will of God because he IS above you.

Thanks for clarifying that, that does make sense. In Islam are there any other ways of remembering god besides prayer?

 

[cocolia42]

Thanks for clarifying that, that does make sense. In Islam are there any other ways of remembering god besides prayer?

Of course. Besides the 5 obligatory prayers (called salah), there are other supplications (called dua'a) that we can make. They are generally less formal, can be done anytime, anywhere. Some are common and some are just whatever comes from the heart.
We can read the Qur'an to remember God.
We can have discussions like this one, both with Muslims and non-muslims.
We can go to (or watch videos of) lectures from Muslim scholars.
We can get involved in volunteer work or charity to bring us closer to God as we become more aware of our own blessings when we see the sufferings of others.
Anything we do solely for the pleasure of God is an act of Worship

 

[Sha'irullah]

The difference is that Islam is a universal way of life, meaning that the guidelines it provides are for every people in every nation at every time. So we (as Muslims) cannot say that something is "outdated". We see in some other religions, people changing the rules as the times change. Islam does not allow this.

In all of my years as a Muslim I never understood this. I hear it said so many times that that I onced believed it.

Islam wherever it spreads destroys pre existing culture. Egyptians are now trying to get rid of the Pyramids left by the Pharaohs. In Indonesia they have Abangan muslims who keep their heritage and religious culture while you also have santri who do the opposite. Same issue happens in Ethiopia also.
Now Islam is universal and is meant for all of mankind yet all I see is Arabicism. Islam spreads and destroys culture only to replace it. Why did Allah created culture to begin with.
I like many others have had issues with this and just left Islam altogether(although I retained my Muslim past). A religion is meant for mankind yet it has a book which can barely be understood in English which requires one to learn Arabic for the full grasp as I learnt.
Islam forbids alcohol yet beer almost came before bread. Islam forbids numerous other things as well which only divides others. I fail to see how universal Islam is.
Te reason I am not a Muslim after all is because of this. Allah creates indifference yet casts us into Jahannam for eternity for not accepting something we cannot adhere to, obey, or even understand

 

[Jkwiyup]

I agree with Sterling Archer's sentiments also. I've been apprehensive to Islam because of the focus on the Arabic language, which is one I don't know.

 

[Sha'irullah]

I agree with Sterling Archer's sentiments also. I've been apprehensive to Islam because of the focus on the Arabic language, which is one I don't know.

It is beautiful. I am not going to deny the Qur'an absolute immaculate poetic prose.
I do not mind praying in Arabic at all but that is because I love Arabic not because it is practical.

Although if Islam was universal why does Allah demand everyone pray in Arabic. That is another issue altogether

 

[Jkwiyup]

It is beautiful. I am not going to deny the Qur'an absolute immaculate poetic prose.
I do not mind praying in Arabic at all but that is because I love Arabic not because it is practical.

Although if Islam was universal why does Allah demand everyone pray in Arabic. That is another issue altogether

Arabic sounds pleasing to my ear even though i don't know what's being said. But i don't understand the emphasize of Arabic in Islam....not everyone knows it.

 

[Sha'irullah]

Arabic sounds pleasing to my ear even though i don't know what's being said. But i don't understand the emphasize of Arabic in Islam....not everyone knows it.

Well it is believed that by knowing the original Arabic of the Qur'an which is a specific dialect. You can preserve the original message of the Qur'an ands its infallibility which is best preserved in its original language. The Bible is not like this hence its many fallacies and errors because of language conversion.

Learning Arabic is vital on a logical level but on a theological one it is a fallacy since if Islam is meant for mankind it should be understood by all of mankind....in any language.

 

[Jkwiyup]

Well it is believed that by knowing the original Arabic of the Qur'an which is a specific dialect. You can preserve the original message of the Qur'an ands its infallibility which is best preserved in its original language. The Bible is not like this hence its many fallacies and errors because of language conversion.

Learning Arabic is vital on a logical level but on a theological one it is a fallacy since if Islam is meant for mankind it should be understood by all of mankind....in any language.

How long does learning Arabic generally take?