Islam thread

[Pegg]

And he did?

yes he did.

He let us know Gods view.... that view is recorded in the gospel and therefore we know what God thinks about it.

God isnt forcing anyone to comply with his standard, but if anyone truly wants to make peace with God and please God, they will endeavor to try and even if they fail, they can still uphold Gods standard.

 

[islam abduallah]

There is only one ground Jesus gave which makes divorce legitimate...adultery.
But if there is no adultery by either partner, then there are no grounds for a legal divorce.

so punishing a wife everyday and night not a good reason for divorcing? Amazing

 

[islam abduallah]

I think we need to look deeper. What is the real sin here? Believing the wrong religion or not worshiping God? There is only One God. If you are worshiping Him and doing good deeds and encouraging others to do the same, then what difference does it make if you call yourself a Jew or Christian or Muslim or Hindu or whatever? Now, if you are worshiping many "gods" or not worshiping any god after hearing the truth, that's a sin.

the problem isn't what you are calling yourself, names are not the problem, the problem is in identifying the god himself is he Jesus, Shiva, Allah, Buddha ,....

i understand your point and last night i was thinking with myself about the meaning of certain verses that emphasize what you, Fouad and Madhuri were saying but still not finialize thinking about it

i already posted it here and then deleted it to give myself chance to understand it fully

 

[islam abduallah]

How is one supposed to know that they have heard the truth? What if they hear and don't realise? How can they be blamed?

this is what i spent all the night thinking about it, there are some verses that seems to explain that, but i want to be sure of it's meaning before posting it here

be patient

 

[Riverwolf]

I've never understood why worshiping other Gods is a sin.

Then again, I'm naturally more polytheistic-minded.

 

[islam abduallah]

finally i got it Alhamdulilah
i was thinking about five verses

1- "Woe to every sinful liar, Who hears the verses of Allah recited to him, then persists arrogantly as if he had not heard them. So give him tidings of a painful punishment, And when he knows anything of Our verses, he takes them in ridicule. Those will have a humiliating punishment" 45:7-9

2- And of the people is he who buys the amusement of speech to mislead [others] from the way of Allah without knowledge and who takes it in ridicule. Those will have a humiliating punishment, And when our verses are recited to him, he turns away arrogantly as if he had not heard them, as if there was in his ears deafness. So give him tidings of a painful punishment. 31:6-7

3-Whoever is guided is only guided for [the benefit of] his soul. And whoever errs only errs against it. And no bearer of burdens will bear the burden of another. And never would We punish until We sent a messenger.17:15

4-[ Allah will say], "Throw into Hell every obstinate disbeliever" 50:24

5-And they rejected them, while their [inner] selves were convinced thereof, out of injustice and haughtiness. So see how was the end of the corrupters 27:14

if we combine those five verses you will find that who will be eternally in the hell is who meant to disbelieve although that he's convinced. this was my understanding yesterday but so i decided to look for if there a scholar who thinks like that or i misunderstood them

till i watched few minutes ago this video "unfortantly in Arabic" for Shaykh "Mohamed Eloraifii"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZT-jMzhqOs&feature=related
the caller was asking are the Non Muslims will be the hell or not? the answer was as following :-

he said the disbelievers "Non Muslims" are divided in to 3 divisions :-

1-first division is the one who died without even hearing about the word of Islam like who live in jungles has no TV, internet and never heard the word Islam, or he live as a crazy or not able to talk nor hear. and this is in the other life will be tested as Allah said "And never would We punish until We sent a messenger" so Allah will send them a messenger in the other life to test them.

2-who hears about Islam but in a distorted way like thinking that Islam is to kill others, Islam is the terrorism, and this is like the first division will be tested in the other life.

3-who hears about something called Islam like our hearing about Buddhism or Amazon rivers just a word he heard but nobody come to them and make them understand islam and to discuss the confusions and doubts about Islam and this is the case of a lot of westerns these days and i "the Shaykh" when travel to Germany or Britain i met a lot of them who knows from my shape that i'm a Muslim imam but they hears about it like any other belief but nobody give them proofs and evidences about Islam

and this third division nobody could say they are in the hell till somebody comes to them and let them know what's Islam, and to answer all of their doubts and confusions about Islam like why Islam prohibited adultery? why Islam ordered to cut the hands of the thieve? and these doubts and confusions prevent them from being Muslims so if a Muslims explained that to them and they become know it in the right way and they refused to follow so this will be in the hell, otherwise we can't say they are in the paradise nor in the hell, their fate will be decided by Allah but we still call them non Muslims and not to marry from them nor eat their slaughters but again their fate in the other life is in Allah's hands and nobody could say they are in the hell except if they are really fully convinced

this is what he said and he finished his speech by asking all muslims to learn about Islam to guide such people who know nothing about islam or knows it wrongly

i think his words make sense

 

[Sumit]

finally i got it Alhamdulilah
i was thinking about five verses

1- "Woe to every sinful liar, Who hears the verses of Allah recited to him, then persists arrogantly as if he had not heard them. So give him tidings of a painful punishment, And when he knows anything of Our verses, he takes them in ridicule. Those will have a humiliating punishment" 45:7-9

2- And of the people is he who buys the amusement of speech to mislead [others] from the way of Allah without knowledge and who takes it in ridicule. Those will have a humiliating punishment, And when our verses are recited to him, he turns away arrogantly as if he had not heard them, as if there was in his ears deafness. So give him tidings of a painful punishment. 31:6-7

3-Whoever is guided is only guided for [the benefit of] his soul. And whoever errs only errs against it. And no bearer of burdens will bear the burden of another. And never would We punish until We sent a messenger.17:15

4-[ Allah will say], "Throw into Hell every obstinate disbeliever" 50:24

5-And they rejected them, while their [inner] selves were convinced thereof, out of injustice and haughtiness. So see how was the end of the corrupters 27:14

if we combine those five verses you will find that who will be eternally in the hell is who meant to disbelieve although that he's convinced. this was my understanding yesterday but so i decided to look for if there a scholar who thinks like that or i misunderstood them

till i watched few minutes ago this video "unfortantly in Arabic" for Shaykh "Mohamed Eloraifii"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZT-jMzhqOs&feature=related
the caller was asking are the Non Muslims will be the hell or not? the answer was as following :-

he said the disbelievers "Non Muslims" are divided in to 3 divisions :-

1-first division is the one who died without even hearing about the word of Islam like who live in jungles has no TV, internet and never heard the word Islam, or he live as a crazy or not able to talk nor hear. and this is in the other life will be tested as Allah said "And never would We punish until We sent a messenger" so Allah will send them a messenger in the other life to test them.

2-who hears about Islam but in a distorted way like thinking that Islam is to kill others, Islam is the terrorism, and this is like the first division will be tested in the other life.

3-who hears about something called Islam like our hearing about Buddhism or Amazon rivers just a word he heard but nobody come to them and make them understand islam and to discuss the confusions and doubts about Islam and this is the case of a lot of westerns these days and i "the Shaykh" when travel to Germany or Britain i met a lot of them who knows from my shape that i'm a Muslim imam but they hears about it like any other belief but nobody give them proofs and evidences about Islam

and this third division nobody could say they are in the hell till somebody comes to them and let them know what's Islam, and to answer all of their doubts and confusions about Islam like why Islam prohibited adultery? why Islam ordered to cut the hands of the thieve? and these doubts and confusions prevent them from being Muslims so if a Muslims explained that to them and they become know it in the right way and they refused to follow so this will be in the hell, otherwise we can't say they are in the paradise nor in the hell, their fate will be decided by Allah but we still call them non Muslims and not to marry from them nor eat their slaughters but again their fate in the other life is in Allah's hands and nobody could say they are in the hell except if they are really fully convinced

this is what he said and he finished his speech by asking all muslims to learn about Islam to guide such people who know nothing about islam or knows it wrongly

i think his words make sense

So do you believe that if any person who do not accept Islam because they do not get their answers will not go to hell? As Quran clearly state that "This is the Book about which there is no doubt".

 

[islam abduallah]

So do you believe that if any person who do not accept Islam because they do not get their answers will not go to hell? As Quran clearly state that "This is the Book about which there is no doubt".

i don't think i say that, i said who has confusions and doubts that prevents him from entering Islam i.e. he received a distorted Islam i cant say he will be in the hell fire nor the paradise his fate in Allah's hands

 

[Riverwolf]

i don't think i say that, i said who has confusions and doubts that prevents him from entering Islam i.e. he received a distorted Islam i cant say he will be in the hell fire nor the paradise his fate in Allah's hands

What if he got the genuine version, but was still genuinely not convinced?

 

[islam abduallah]

What if he got the genuine version, but was still genuinely not convinced?

Why not?

 

[Riverwolf]

Why not?

Well, the reasons would probably vary from person to person, and are ultimately irrelevant to the point.

 

[islam abduallah]

Well, the reasons would probably vary from person to person, and are ultimately irrelevant to the point.

example?

 

[Riverwolf]

example?

Why do you need one? It's a hypothetical situation.

Do you not believe such a situation is possible?

 

[Sumit]

i said who has confusions and doubts that prevents him from entering Islam

This is the case of All religion and not only Islam. People choose their religions when their doubts are cleared.

i.e. he received a distorted Islam i cant say he will be in the hell fire nor the paradise his fate in Allah's hands

Can you elaborate the term distorted Islam. Also who is responsible if if non believers had doubts and confusion regarding Islam. Is Allah responsible for that?? Quran clearly states it.
Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe.(quran 2.6)
Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. And for them is a great punishment.(quran 2.7)

 

[islam abduallah]

Why do you need one? It's a hypothetical situation.

Do you not believe such a situation is possible?

not all cases are the same, and so you have to provide example to measure it on the verses otherwise don't ask me for answering about assumptions

 

[Riverwolf]

not all cases are the same, and so you have to provide example to measure it on the verses otherwise don't ask me for answering about assumptions

Very well.

Say the good answer was given as to why a thief's hand is to be cut off. What if the person regards that answer as nonsensical?

 

[Gaura Priya]

And He revealed the Qur'an. Indeed, those who disbelieve in the verses of Allah will have a severe punishment, and Allah is exalted in Might, the Owner of Retribution. (quran 3.4)
So no matter how good your deeds. If you do not believe in verses of Quran you will be punished.

Not necessarily so. The verses of God, ayat'allah, are just that, pure and simple. For us Hindus, divyavani, the divine sound that emanated from the lips of the Vedic sages, i.e. Veda, is this very same essence. Any bona fide writing that is 'authorised' to teach us how to be better human beings, comes ultimately from God Himself.

Qur'an simply means 'recitation' and thus the very recitation given by Allah in Muhammad's revelations are, according to Islam, the same ones that have been given to every culture regarding the Oneness of God's Being.

According to the Qur'an, God had sent this recitation (qur'an) as a guidance to show that deeds are important in one's surrender to Allah. The God of the Qur'an therefore is a God of justice; those who sow good deeds will harvest blessings from the Divine, and those who sow terror will reap the terror of their deeds in this life or in the next.

I will quote from Muhammad Asad's translation, as I regard his as one of the best:


"Step by step He has bestowed upon thee from on high this divine writ, setting forth the truth which confirms whatever there still remains [of earlier revelations], for it is He who has bestowed from on high the Torah and the Gospel aforetime, as a guidance unto mankind, and it is He who has bestowed [upon man] by which to discern the true from the false. Behold, as for those who are bent on denying God's messages - grievous suffering awaits them: for God is almighty, avenger of evil."

-- Al-Imran [the Family of Imran], 3:3-4


Thus Islam is about surrendering one's self to God, seeing Him as one's own most dear Friend, and being good to others; Muhammad himself gave fact of these simple truths.

It really is more of the fanatical Muslims who have translated the Qur'an according to their own desires, and added obscure things that are very much anti-Qur'anic.

 

[Pastek]

I've never understood why worshiping other Gods is a sin.

Then again, I'm naturally more polytheistic-minded.

What is the name of your religion, and do you have a "holy book" ?

If you don't mind, in how many gods do you belive, and do you think they are alive and help you ?
And why many instead of one ?

 

[Sumit]

Veda, is this very same essence.

No there is big difference between these two. Vedas address people and not a particular sect whereas Quran adress only Islam. Vedas asks people to judge vedic verses before following whereas Quran claims that it is perfect and cannot be doubted. Quran is full of hatred towards non believers and acc to it all non believers will live in hell forever.
There is also a big difference in Vedas and Quran as quran claims that Allah created humans only to worship him.
And I did not create the jinn and mankind except to worship Me.(quran 51.56)

According to the Qur'an, God had sent this recitation (qur'an) as a guidance to show that deeds are important in one's surrender to Allah.

Quran also states that one who accept islam even at the time of death his all past sins are forgiven.

Thus Islam is about surrendering one's self to God

And also accepting Mohammad as final prophet.

It really is more of the fanatical Muslims who have translated the Qur'an according to their own desires, and added obscure things that are very much anti-Qur'anic.

No, I have read many translations and all were same. However if any author now try to modify verses than it will be a great effort. Otherwise quran is full of hatred and intolerant towards other religions.

 

[Flankerl]

But in the eyes of God, a marriage is binding and for life. Therefore once they are together, they are together for ever until death parts them.

So thats why god goes into full detail about what is to do in case of a divorce.

Makes sense.

regardless of the choices we make, Gods view is not going to change. People change their minds, but God doesnt.

To read this from a christian is incredibly hilarious. Thank you for this purim present.

I love how the Christian church, as you call it, compounds the error of making a poor choice for a mate by requiring you to stick to your error until death do you part. No second chances. Sounds like a recipe for happiness.

It also goes against what you can read up in the torah.