I think most of us know what Hamas are and their tactics have'nt fooled me,the more civilians that get killed the better for them,for me this was cold calculated Murder by Hamas of their own people.
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Israel attacks gaza strip
- Thread starter Heneni
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tomspug
Absorbant
Well, hold on. I don't think that Palestinians INTEND for their own civilians to die. I think that they justify themselves into doing what is necessary (in other words, what their leaders tell them to do). I can't speak for Hamas's leaders though. I can only imagine that they attribute idealism as having far greater value than human life.
EiNsTeiN
Boo-h!
Ummm...May be...whatever..
What I know best is that both parties of the conflict are right and both are wrong...right or wrong with how much portions is a conflict based on many aspects, and honestly, non of us seem to be objective enough...
So, lets just quit the useless talk, and pray for everyone suffering everywhere...(at least thats the one thing common between all of us)..
What I know best is that both parties of the conflict are right and both are wrong...right or wrong with how much portions is a conflict based on many aspects, and honestly, non of us seem to be objective enough...
So, lets just quit the useless talk, and pray for everyone suffering everywhere...(at least thats the one thing common between all of us)..
Thats what i mean
Ditto
Luminous
non-existential luminary
It was Hamas who broke the peace of Israel by fireing rockets. which frighten the population very very much And in return, Israel just killed 600 citizens!...How a reasonable response!.
granted that they are angry that Israel blockades them. But Isreal does this because it believes that Terrorist might smuggle in some deadly weapons Then why did they agree on Ceasefire in the first place?.
fullyveiled muslimah
Evil incarnate!
I found this article to be interesting. The UN is saying they have no evidence of Hamas being in the school at the time that it was bombed. In fact according to the article the school was a known safe-house when the Palestinians were told to leave areas under attack they went there. Unfortunately, IDF decided that they must also die as well.
UN Says No Hamas Fighters Were in Bombed Gaza School - Yahoo! News
Why would they attack that school? If the building was flying a UN flag to visibly notify the army that it is not to be targeted, wouldn't you think twice before bombing it?
Also as to the cease-fire it will never work. This is because Hamas is never asked to participate in these talks. They need to be there, period. People forget that even though the media labels Hamas as a terrorist group it only does so because neither Israel nor the UN nor the US recognizes them as the legitimate authority over that area. Basically the Gazans were asked to have free elections. There were only two choices the puppet government that Israel and US agreed upon and Hamas. The people did not want a puppet government. I think they chose the lesser of the two evils. They've seen how puppet governments have worked out for their brothers and sisters. It hasn't, because they are still at war even after cowing to everything the US wants. So after the people elected Hamas everyone promptly ignored it because it wasn't the choice the people were supposed to make. I mean excuse me, but if it's a free election don't they get to choose who they want instead of who you want? And thus we begin the cycle again. Since no one recognizes Hamas as a political group with a military wing, they feel it justified not to allow a situation where the Gazans can go about the business of living normal lives.
In trying to look at it through the Gazans eyes, to end up like their compadres in the West Bank is not any better. Yeah you probably won't get bombed but then you'd also have to give up your houses and the rest of the land too. Not to mention the people in the West Bank aren't really living any better, even after doing what Israel wants. They live under constraints as well although they do not fire any rockets into Israel.
So the way I see it is even though I don't agree with many of the tactics Hamas uses, I wouldn't disarm if I were them either. Disarming only ensure that when you feel like you want to bust my head again, I won't have so much as a slingshot to fight you back with. That's all that boils down to. Israeli government just wants to be able to kill them without looking over their shoulder and worrying that one day Ashkelon or Sderot will come under real fire. I bet you anything, that if Hamas disarmed today and never shot another rocket Israel would be content to keep the blockades in place and dictate to the Gazans when to eat and drink, have electricity, get medicine, you get the picture.
UN Says No Hamas Fighters Were in Bombed Gaza School - Yahoo! News
Why would they attack that school? If the building was flying a UN flag to visibly notify the army that it is not to be targeted, wouldn't you think twice before bombing it?
Also as to the cease-fire it will never work. This is because Hamas is never asked to participate in these talks. They need to be there, period. People forget that even though the media labels Hamas as a terrorist group it only does so because neither Israel nor the UN nor the US recognizes them as the legitimate authority over that area. Basically the Gazans were asked to have free elections. There were only two choices the puppet government that Israel and US agreed upon and Hamas. The people did not want a puppet government. I think they chose the lesser of the two evils. They've seen how puppet governments have worked out for their brothers and sisters. It hasn't, because they are still at war even after cowing to everything the US wants. So after the people elected Hamas everyone promptly ignored it because it wasn't the choice the people were supposed to make. I mean excuse me, but if it's a free election don't they get to choose who they want instead of who you want? And thus we begin the cycle again. Since no one recognizes Hamas as a political group with a military wing, they feel it justified not to allow a situation where the Gazans can go about the business of living normal lives.
In trying to look at it through the Gazans eyes, to end up like their compadres in the West Bank is not any better. Yeah you probably won't get bombed but then you'd also have to give up your houses and the rest of the land too. Not to mention the people in the West Bank aren't really living any better, even after doing what Israel wants. They live under constraints as well although they do not fire any rockets into Israel.
So the way I see it is even though I don't agree with many of the tactics Hamas uses, I wouldn't disarm if I were them either. Disarming only ensure that when you feel like you want to bust my head again, I won't have so much as a slingshot to fight you back with. That's all that boils down to. Israeli government just wants to be able to kill them without looking over their shoulder and worrying that one day Ashkelon or Sderot will come under real fire. I bet you anything, that if Hamas disarmed today and never shot another rocket Israel would be content to keep the blockades in place and dictate to the Gazans when to eat and drink, have electricity, get medicine, you get the picture.
Luminous
non-existential luminary
:sarcastic: Oh yeah. If people there 'wanted' the Muslims to rule them then the Palestinians should be glad that the Secular Nation of Isreal is there to stop them from massacaring each other.
where do you get this "history" from? the BYZANTINE empire ruled the 'holylands'. And they were very prosperous and happy people under Christian Rule. Especially since the Roman Empire before had Outlawed Judaism as a Religion. Jews were banned from the 'holy land' by the Christian Byzantines aswell. So it is safe to say they were all christians and would not be happy that Muhammadists took over and shunned them from rule.
also: just to double check -->
Palestine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"In 536 CE, Justinian I promoted the governor at Caesarea to proconsul (anthypatos), giving him authority over the two remaining consulars. Justinian believed that the elevation of the governor was appropriate because he was responsible for "the province in which our Lord Jesus Christ... appeared on earth".[85] This was also the principal factor explaining why Palestine prospered under the Christian Empire. The cities of Palestine, such as Caesarea Maritima, Jerusalem, Scythopolis, Neapolis, and Gaza reached their peak population in the late Roman period and produced notable Christian scholars in the disciplines of rhetoric, historiography, Eusebian ecclesiastical history, classicizing history and hagiography.[85]
Byzantine administration of Palestine was temporarily suspended during the Persian occupation of 61428, and then permanently after the Muslims arrived in 634 CE, defeating the empire's forces decisively at the Battle of Yarmouk in 636 CE. Jerusalem capitulated in 638 CE and Caesarea between 640 CE and 642 CE.[85]
Islamic period (630-1918 CE)
In 638 CE, Caliph Omar Ibn al-Khattab and Safforonius, the Byzantine governor of Jerusalem, signed Al-Uhda al-'Omariyya (The Umariyya Covenant), an agreement that stipulated the rights and obligations of all non-Muslims in Palestine.[81] Jews were permitted to return to Palestine for the first time since the 500-year ban enacted by the Romans and maintained by Byzantine rulers.[86][64]
Omar Ibn al-Khattab was the first conqueror of Jerusalem to enter the city on foot, and when visiting the site that now houses the Haram al-Sharif, he declared it a sacred place of prayer.[87][88] Cities that accepted (not 'wanted') the new rulers, as recorded in registrars from the time, were: Jerusalem, Nablus, Jenin, Acre, Tiberias, Bisan, Caesarea, Lajjun, Lydd, Jaffa, Imwas, Beit Jibrin, Gaza, Rafah, Hebron, Yubna, Haifa, Safad and Ashkelon."
Luminous
non-existential luminary
lack of evidence is not evidence of lack.
"we're 99.9% sure that no militants were at the school..."
However it seams that the Israel military does not know how to fight cleanly. Also since most of the military is made of Fundamentalist Jews and Extreme Nationalist they likely see all Gazans as worthless or dangerous.
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I have always thought this man knew a lot about the conflicts in this part of the world. This is what he has to say about the current one. He is the author of "The Great War for Civilization". He has reported in the Middle East for about 30 years. I believe he lives in Lebanon when he is not in England.
Robert Fisk: Why do they hate the West so much, we will ask - Robert Fisk, Commentators - The Independent
Robert Fisk: Why do they hate the West so much, we will ask - Robert Fisk, Commentators - The Independent
There is a big drawback to what you are saying,i totally agree Palestinians should be able to choose their own Government but have you seen the Hamas charter? there isn't much room for manoeuvre.
In my country,if a political party had a charter such as this there would be such an outcry,Hamas has had plenty of opportunity to broker theirselves a deal and IMO have deliberately provoked Israel into this mess and are creaming propaganda from it.
Sometimes the less you do is better and in this case its acts of aggression so if they can do this maybe there is a chance.
It does'nt help that Hamas look the same as civilians dressed in track suit bottoms and trainers
Luminous
non-existential luminary
there it is...I found this article to be interesting. The UN is saying they have no evidence of Hamas being in the school at the time that it was bombed. In fact according to the article the school was a known safe-house when the Palestinians were told to leave areas under attack they went there. Unfortunately, IDF decided that they must also die as well.
UN Says No Hamas Fighters Were in Bombed Gaza School - Yahoo! News
Why would they attack that school? If the building was flying a UN flag to visibly notify the army that it is not to be targeted, wouldn't you think twice before bombing it?
Also as to the cease-fire it will never work. This is because Hamas is never asked to participate in these talks. They need to be there, period.People forget that even though the media labels Hamas as a terrorist group it only does so because neither Israel nor the UN nor the US recognizes them as the legitimate authority over that area.Basically the Gazans were asked to have free elections. There were only two choices the puppet governmentthat Israel and US agreed upon and Hamas. The people did not want a puppet government. I think they chose the lesser of the two evils.They've seen how puppet governments have worked out for their brothers and sisters. It hasn't, because they are still at war even after cowing to everything the US wants. So after the people elected Hamas everyone promptly ignored it because it wasn't the choice the people were supposed to make.I mean excuse me, but if it's a free election don't they get to choose who they want instead of who you want?And thus we begin the cycle again. Since no one recognizes Hamas as a political group with a military wing, they feel it justified not to allow a situation where the Gazans can go about the business of living normal lives.
In trying to look at it through the Gazans eyes, to end up like their compadres in the West Bank is not any better. Yeah you probably won't get bombed but then you'd also have to give up your houses and the rest of the land too. Not to mention the people in the West Bank aren't really living any better, even after doing what Israel wants. They live under constraints as well although they do not fire any rockets into Israel.
So the way I see it is even though I don't agree with many of the tactics Hamas uses, I wouldn't disarm if I were them either.Disarming only ensure that when you feel like you want to bust my head again, I won't have so much as a slingshot to fight you back with.That's all that boils down to. Israeli government just wants to be able to kill themwithout looking over their shoulder and worrying that one day Ashkelon or Sderot will come under real fire. I bet you anything, that if Hamas disarmed today and never shot another rocket Israel would be content to keep the blockades in place and dictate to the Gazans when to eat and drink, have electricity, get medicine, you get the picture.:yesh yeah, i'm sure Israel would like to blockade and control them forever. that would most definitely assure Israely safety, but if Israel would want to be taken seriously and be safe from UN sanctions it would have to lift the blockade
Luminous
non-existential luminary
No, but i don't think the military should just wipe out anyone who doesn't dress the way they find nonthreatening.
But there is no way to differentiate between combatants other than male female and sadly children
This is clearly my opinion, but I don't think it can be right in any way to bomb where it is known there are children. By known, I mean schools. Is it really worth killing many children just to get a couple Hamas soldiers? In this report and other's I've seen today, there were no soldiers there and the Israelies were clearly told ahead of time the coordinates of these schools and they were safe places for children and women. You would think that if they were truly dedicated to minimizing civilian casualties, they would not bomb schools.
I agree they were told the co-ordinates and should know better but in general combat especially in built up areas where there are combatants and non combatants sometimes you have milliseconds to make a decision whether to shoot or not but there is no excuse for the school.
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