Israel Declares War After Hamas Attacks

[Shaul]

Israeli news sources report over 600 are dead and over 2,100 are wounded at this time. Hamas has fired over 3,000 rockets at Israel and over 100 soldiers and civilians are being held in Gaza.

 

[We Never Know]

Imagine that. Russia calls for an immediate cease fire in Gaza.

"In a recent development, Russia has urgently called for an immediate ceasefire. The Russian Foreign Ministry made the announcement, emphasizing the need to de-escalate the ongoing conflict.

"The situation in Gaza is deteriorating rapidly, and we call for an immediate ceasefire," said Maria Zakharova, the spokesperson for the Russian Foreign Ministry according to AP.

She further added, "It is crucial to prevent further loss of life and to ensure the safety of civilians."

The call from Russia comes amid escalating violence in the region, which has led to numerous casualties and widespread destruction. The Russian government is urging both sides to halt hostilities and engage in dialogue to resolve the conflict."

MSN

www.msn.com

The Nigerian government calls for immediate de-escalation and ceasefire in Gaza.

"The cycle of violence and retaliation that the current escalation has assumed, only serves to perpetuate an unending cycle of pain and suffering for the civilian population that bears the brunt of every conflict.

The Federal Government of Nigeria, therefore, calls on both sides to exercise restraint, prioritize the safety of civilians and give room for humanitarian considerations.

We are therefore calling for a peaceful resolution of the conflict through dialogue,” the statement said."

MSN

 

[Bthoth]

Russia voted for the partition that created Israel in 1947. Do they get the same disdain?

Israel was a good thing as a self governing entity but as a theocracy? NO!

 

[Wandering Monk]

Israel was a good thing as a self governing entity but as a theocracy? NO!

They are not a theocracy today? Are you referring to ancient history?

 

[Little Dragon]

After Hamas, the Islamist group that leads the Gaza Strip, launched thousands of missiles at Israel and invaded southern Israeli towns near Gaza, killing at least 100 Israelis and taking hostages, Israel has declared war and promised a counter-strike.

Israel vows 'mighty vengeance' after surprise attack

The worst attack on Israel for decades unleashed a war that both sides vowed to escalate. Hundreds were reported killed and thousands wounded on both sides after Israel responded with massive air strikes.

www.reuters.com

May Hamas be quickly defeated and the region be at peace soon.

Hamas is disgusting, but the far right government, of Tel Aviv, failed it's people. Now thousands of innocents, Palestinians and Israelis, will suffer, from their incompetence.

 

[Bthoth]

They are not a theocracy today? Are you referring to ancient history?

Israel describes itself as a Jewish state. Israel recognizes by law the Chief Rabinate of Israel as the supreme rabbinic authority for Judaism in Israel. Gail Page describes Israel as a "theocracy", a "country that has openly declared itself for a particular religious group"

 

[Little Dragon]

Israel describes itself as a Jewish state. Israel recognizes by law the Chief Rabinate of Israel as the supreme rabbinic authority for Judaism in Israel. Gail Page describes Israel as a "theocracy", a "country that has openly declared itself for a particular religious group"

Technically the UK is a theocracy too, because King Charles III is head of state and the head of the Anglican church. However Parliament is sovereign. Not the monarch, I imagine the same applies to Israel, a parliamentary democracy.

 

[Wandering Monk]

Technically the UK is a theocracy too, because King Charles III is head of state and the head of the Anglican church. However Parliament is sovereign. Not the monarch, I imagine the same applies to Israel, a parliamentary democracy.

I agree. They have elections so not a theocracy.

 

[We Never Know]

The Nigerian government calls for immediate de-escalation and ceasefire in Gaza.

"The cycle of violence and retaliation that the current escalation has assumed, only serves to perpetuate an unending cycle of pain and suffering for the civilian population that bears the brunt of every conflict.

The Federal Government of Nigeria, therefore, calls on both sides to exercise restraint, prioritize the safety of civilians and give room for humanitarian considerations.

We are therefore calling for a peaceful resolution of the conflict through dialogue,” the statement said."

MSN

U.S. is sending a carrier strike group closer to Israel

"The U.S. military is moving an aircraft carrier strike group and military aircraft closer to Israel as a show of support, and will also begin supplying Israel with munitions and other military supplies immediately, said Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin

Austin said Sunday afternoon that he had directed the USS Gerald R. Ford Carrier Strike Group to go to the Eastern Mediterranean. The group includes the carrier, a Ticonderoga-class guided missile cruiser, and four Arleigh Burke-class guided missile destroyers. “We have also taken steps to augment U.S Air Force F-35, F-15, F-16, and A-10 fighter aircraft squadrons in the region,” he said. “In addition, the United States government will be rapidly providing the Israel Defense Forces with additional equipment and resources, including munitions. The first security assistance will begin moving today and arriving in the coming days."

U.S. is sending a carrier strike group closer to Israel and will begin supplying munitions starting Sunday

The U.S. is also looking at options for a possible evacuation of Americans from Israel. Nothing has been decided, but one option involves putting some Americans on Navy ships.

www-nbcnews-com.cdn.ampproject.org

 

[Debater Slayer]

Think through what you're saying.

I have been thinking through it throughout most of my life. I grew up with displaced Palestinians as neighbors and friends and saw first-hand how they were suffering loss of their homes and family due to Israel's policies.

This is a far more deep-rooted issue than a philosophical evaluation of intent can capture.

"Intentionally killing as many civilians as possible" is somehow morally equivalent to "failing to take precautions to minimize civilians deaths?"

No.

Moral equivalence is secondary to real-world effects in a military conflict. This is why the view that the US has been a more damaging actor than many terrorist organizations is not remotely uncommon. Many people who have lost someone or had their countries or homes destroyed are not consoled by such arguments about intent—and that is if we even grant the highly contestable premise that the intent of the US or Israel has been benign in the first place.

Has Israel surely "failed to take precautions to minimize civilian deaths" in times of war? Yes I'm sure it has. It's very difficult to battle an enemy in a densely populated urban area with civilians everywhere.

It has also contributed to the cycle of violence and festering of radicalization by continuing its illegal occupation and mistreatment of Palestinians, which are policies that have contributed to more fighting in the first place. This is why I've said that it's impossible to have a complete or accurate picture of the situation without considering the history and policies in the region.

None of that makes them morally equivalent to Hamas. It's silliness.

Whether or not the Israeli government and IDF are is a subjective philosophical opinion that has little practical relevance to the results of a military conflict, although perpetuating illegal occupation doesn't paint a pristine picture of the morality and intent of Israeli policies either.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Asking someone who has just lost loved ones in war to make an objective assessment of the situation is unfair and ignores the obvious human psychology of grief at play.

I think the input of those most affected by a war is essential to forming a thorough understanding thereof, especially when we're talking about something like a country's image or assessment of its intent. Besides, it's possible for outside observers to evaluate the tangible effects of a state's actions regardless of what they think about the intent behind those.

When we're talking as outside observers of the war, it behooves us to think a bit more objectively here. You're comparing a liberal democracy to a terrorist group that does not want Israel to exist. How many times must we say the obvious? It is clear that the political and ideological objectives of these two groups are not morally equivalent. On one hand, you're talking about a group whose objective is evil. On the other hand, you're talking about a country that has committed evils in the course of fighting a worthy cause (as has every democratic nation I know of).

I disagree with the premise that Israel has fought a "worthy cause" unless we limit that statement to a subset of the objectives it has previously fought for. I don't believe that holds as a general statement. Israel has often fought to maintain its control of illegally occupied territories and build more illegal settlements.

Also, whether Israel is democratic is irrelevant to its treatment of Palestinians. Its democracy benefits its citizens only. Does its democracy make things better for Palestinians in illegally occupied territories? No. The situation there is the same whether or not Israel is democratic toward its own citizens.

If we're going to have any kind of discussion rooted in any reasonable sense of right and wrong, that distinction has to be kept clear.

I would say a reasonable sense of right and wrong would also entail recognizing Israel's major role in the continuation of the conflict and abuse of Palestinians. I agree that Hamas is a theocratic criminal organization; however, I just don't think looking at such a decades-long conflict as a battle between a beacon of democracy and a bunch of villainous people is nuanced or sufficient to address the extremely complicated history and factors contributing to the conflict.

 

[Debater Slayer]

@Debater Slayer - thank you for the clarity you've demonstrated in this thread.

Thanks, Jay. This has been a difficult time, between staying updated on how my Palestinian and Israeli friends are doing and reading some posts and comments elsewhere that have been cheering for the killing of civilians—in the attack and the retaliation—as if it were a sports event. It highlights just how distant lasting peace may be.

I wish you and any family you have in Israel peace and safety.

 

[danieldemol]

I have no idea what the solution is.

I have my own ideas, but regrettably RF rules prevent advocating violence regardless of context so I would most probably recieve a mod slap for putting forward what I see as constructive ideas that would reduce violence even though the means themselves are somewhat violent.

 

[RestlessSoul]

I have my own ideas, but regrettably RF rules prevent advocating violence regardless of context so I would most probably recieve a mod slap for putting forward what I see as constructive ideas that would reduce violence even though the means themselves are somewhat violent.

Violence only ever begets more violence. It’s about time we humans learned that lesson collectively.

 

[danieldemol]

Violence only ever begets more violence. It’s about time we humans learned that lesson collectively.

You sound like a pacifist. I suppose you think that the police should unanimously turn in all their weapons too?

 

[RestlessSoul]

You sound like a pacifist. I suppose you think that the police should unanimously turn in all their weapons too?

Well I do consider myself fortunate to live in a country where the police are not routinely armed. So you're not completely wide of the mark there. But mostly, I don't think the solution to violence is more violence. The more people are armed, the more people get hurt, that much seems obvious. And arming the good guys never solves anything, because every side always thinks they're the good guys.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

The evolving motto seems to be "Once and For All -- Whatever It Takes!" The prospects are chilling, particularly for the non-combatants of Gaza. It is a deeply painful specter of physical, emotional, and spiritual agony to be born by all in the area.

As hard as it is, I choose to focus on the intention urged by a rabbi some eight years ago:

"We pray not to wipe out haters but to banish hatred."​

 

[Revoltingest]

U.S. is sending a carrier strike group closer to Israel

"The U.S. military is moving an aircraft carrier strike group and military aircraft closer to Israel as a show of support, and will also begin supplying Israel with munitions and other military supplies immediately, said Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin

Austin said Sunday afternoon that he had directed the USS Gerald R. Ford Carrier Strike Group to go to the Eastern Mediterranean. The group includes the carrier, a Ticonderoga-class guided missile cruiser, and four Arleigh Burke-class guided missile destroyers. “We have also taken steps to augment U.S Air Force F-35, F-15, F-16, and A-10 fighter aircraft squadrons in the region,” he said. “In addition, the United States government will be rapidly providing the Israel Defense Forces with additional equipment and resources, including munitions. The first security assistance will begin moving today and arriving in the coming days."

U.S. is sending a carrier strike group closer to Israel and will begin supplying munitions starting Sunday

The U.S. is also looking at options for a possible evacuation of Americans from Israel. Nothing has been decided, but one option involves putting some Americans on Navy ships.

www-nbcnews-com.cdn.ampproject.org

This US reaction seems to be either....
1) A show of force that's merely PR. It isn't useful
to wage war in a dense urban area full of innocent
civilians.
2) A dangerous use of force that will kill far more
civilians than combatants.

Ramping up the civilian carnage, Israel is now
denying them food, fuel, & utilities.

Israel announces ‘total’ blockade on Gaza

Israeli Defence Minister Yoav Gallant says blockade will include ban on admission of food, electricity and fuel.

www.aljazeera.com

‘People are fearful of what’s to come’: Gaza civilians flee waves of Israeli strikes

Palestinians seek refuge but electricity and gas have been cut off and medical infrastructure is on its knees

www.theguardian.com

It could be that Hamas is expecting an Israeli
over-reaction that will starve, bomb, & drive
away Palestinians. This might be designed to
inspire more resistance to Israeli occupation.

 

[Colt]

After Hamas, the Islamist group that leads the Gaza Strip, launched thousands of missiles at Israel and invaded southern Israeli towns near Gaza, killing at least 100 Israelis and taking hostages, Israel has declared war and promised a counter-strike.

Israel vows 'mighty vengeance' after surprise attack

The worst attack on Israel for decades unleashed a war that both sides vowed to escalate. Hundreds were reported killed and thousands wounded on both sides after Israel responded with massive air strikes.

www.reuters.com

May Hamas be quickly defeated and the region be at peace soon.

by Ben Shapiro IMOP a brief history from Shapiro's perspective.

Here’s THE TRUTH About the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict (A Comprehensive History)​

 

[metis]

When one element tries to kill as many civilians as possible as Hamas is doing, that's clearly "genocide".